You and Yours - Radio 4

[Fuzzgin]

Apologies if anyone has already posted this, I've looked. Even those of us who know what these vultures are like will be shocked.

 

I caught the responses on today's programme but just listened to the original programme on iPlayer.

 

BBC iPlayer - You and Yours: 11/02/2009

[redroo555]

makes you wonder how they sleep at night!!

i'd rather be like i am with no money, but definately good morals, manners, and i would help anyone, then be like them!!

they make my blood boil:mad:

hopefully, they'll day will come, as what goes around comes around!

[sosumi]

Apologies if anyone has already posted this, I've looked. Even those of us who know what these vultures are like will be shocked.

 

I caught the responses on today's programme but just listened to the original programme on iPlayer.

 

BBC iPlayer - You and Yours: 11/02/2009

Thanks for posting it Fuzzgin.

These stories break my heart.

 

I don't know what else to say right now, except that if you haven't heard it yet, please do.

[sosumi]

What they did to Beryl Brazier still breaks my heart.

[sosumi]

I do know that like many on here, I'll not settle until this evil 'industry' is gone.:mad:

[sosumi]

At least we now know why the CSA have been desperate for media sympathy:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/183135-collections-staff-suffer-abuse.html#post1973563

[blipvert]

Nice find fuzzgin. Shame it was on the wireless rather than prime time TV. I got the impression (rightly or wrongly) Gareth Thomas isn't going to have the wool pulled over his eyes on this.

[sosumi]

Shows how full of @£$% the CSA are.

They don't have a transcript for this broadcast on the You and Yours site yet.

You and Yours are asking for people to write in.

[lickthewallfatboy]

disgusting

[ScarletPimpernel]

The Uriah Heep stylee spokesman from the British Banking Association (shurely a typo...) gave a perfect demonstration of the smug and self-important attitude that is at the root of so many problems in the banking sector. The industry standard attitude appears to be 'we're right, even when we're wrong'.

[cerberusalert]

The Uriah Heep stylee spokesman from the British Banking Association

 

At least he didn't start singing 'Return to Fantasy' (1975) or 'High and Mighty' (1976) though 'Innocent Victim' (1977) would have been apt.

[Rhia]

If you listen to the Consumer Minister's comments I think our complaints to the OFT are having some effect.

I urge everyone who has a problem with the tactics of these DCAs to complain to the OFT. You will get a vague letter in response but those complainst are piling up.

[cerberusalert]

If every member of this site made a complaint (210,000) they would have to sit up and listen.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I have emailed You and Yours about the Minister's comments regarding the OFT's action against the infamous 13 DCAs (whose identity the OFT is at pains to protect), and his suggestion that more are about to be regulated.

 

I think the number of complaints the OFT deals with is the tip of a very much larger iceberg. The OFT doesn't take individual complaints from consumers, who are obliged to go through their local TS, in the hope that they will pass the complaint to the DCA's local TS, in the more forlorn hope that they will take action or inform the OFT. Given the League of TS's regular 'local TS for local people and local problems' mantra, too many complaints are just not acted upon. It is obvious that DCAs are aware of, and exploit, this situation.

 

There needs to be either a central reporting point (which could at least generate meaningful quantitative data on the scale of complaints), or the Minister should focus TS' minds on the need to act.

[Kraken1]

There needs to be either a central reporting point (which could at least generate meaningful quantitative data on the scale of complaints), or the Minister should focus TS' minds on the need to act.

 

There is; consumer direct. The OFT and Trading Standards both get info from there.

 

If every member of this site made a complaint (210,000) they would have to sit up and listen.

 

I think the problem is that there are actually too few complaints being made and without the complaints they won't/can't do anything. 'I have a million accounts and only 50 complaints - leave me alone!' etc.

 

Consumer Direct released stats of the number of complaints for the top ten problems. No 10 was leather furniture and had 12000 or so complaints nationally. I put the link up in another post. A little green square for anyone that links to it. Can't be arsed to find it myself.

 

Anyway, this means that whilst we can't know how many complaints the debt industry get, we can know that it is less than leather furniture nationally across all the dcas and the millions of accounts they try to collect. I'd wager that dcas are chasing more accounts than leather sofas are sold, especially as the economic climate becomes more 'interesting'.

 

That said, the numbers do not necessarily gell with the anecdotal evidence. This means that the only conclusions are:

1. It really isn't that bad

2. The vast majority of folk are not actually complaining.

 

I shall leave it to you to decide which it is likely to be .

[ScarletPimpernel]

My experience of Consumer Direct is that they were not very knowlegeable about consumer debt; everything seems to rely upon simple scripts. They don't actually do anything other that suggesting contacting local TS - though they'll give you the number.

 

This is from their website:

What we don't do

 

Consumer Direct cannot:

 

 

• Give you specific information about whether there has been a complaint about a trader.
  
• Complain to a trader on your behalf.
  
• Provide advice on mortgages, tenancy or housing/welfare benefits.
  
• Provide advice on personal debts or financial mis-selling.
  

 

Is there a link to their stats?

[Kraken1]

no, but they record the number of complaints though.

 

I've found the link myself. Someone now needs to geve me a green blob. Although my profile says I have four, and this says only one? Go figure...

 

Anyway....

 

Consumer Direct - Consumer Direct Reveals Top 10 Complaints In 2008

[mr.ton]

The conspiracy side of me reckons all these types of debt organisations are set up by the financial/debt industry itself in some way

What all these organisations can tell me is nothing i dont know already if your good at knowing how the legal system really works ;-)

[PGH7447]

What a telling program, bet Gillian the "so called" trainer from CSA wont play it on her pathetic course

 

How to Deal with Harassing Debtors-

 

Or if you actualy read this course title correctly

 

How to Harrass Debtors

[sosumi]

There is; consumer direct. The OFT and Trading Standards both get info from there.

 

 

 

I think the problem is that there are actually too few complaints being made and without the complaints they won't/can't do anything. 'I have a million accounts and only 50 complaints - leave me alone!' etc.

 

Consumer Direct released stats of the number of complaints for the top ten problems. No 10 was leather furniture and had 12000 or so complaints nationally. I put the link up in another post. A little green square for anyone that links to it. Can't be arsed to find it myself.

 

Anyway, this means that whilst we can't know how many complaints the debt industry get, we can know that it is less than leather furniture nationally across all the dcas and the millions of accounts they try to collect. I'd wager that dcas are chasing more accounts than leather sofas are sold, especially as the economic climate becomes more 'interesting'.

 

That said, the numbers do not necessarily gell with the anecdotal evidence. This means that the only conclusions are:

1. It really isn't that bad

2. The vast majority of folk are not actually complaining.

 

I shall leave it to you to decide which it is likely to be .

 

I think it actually means that they don't deal with consumer complaints about DCAs Kraken1. As Scarlet Pimpernel has already pointed out:

My experience of Consumer Direct is that they were not very knowlegeable about consumer debt; everything seems to rely upon simple scripts. They don't actually do anything other that suggesting contacting local TS - though they'll give you the number.

 

This is from their website:

Quote:

What we don't do

 

Consumer Direct cannot:

 

 

• Give you specific information about whether there has been a complaint about a trader.
  
• Complain to a trader on your behalf.
  
• Provide advice on mortgages, tenancy or housing/welfare benefits.
  
• Provide advice on personal debts or financial mis-selling.
  

Here's the figures pasted directly from Consumer Direct's webpage.

Complaints to Consumer Direct in calendar years 2007 and 2008

 

2007 2008 Percentage difference 07v08 Second hand cars purchased from independent dealers

 

 

41,880 47,019 12.27% Mobile Phones (service agreements)

34,679 31,267 -9.84% TVs

 

19,744 20,313 2.88% Mobile Phones (hardware)

 

17,760 20,159 13.51% Car repairs and servicing from independent garages

 

15,253 16,176 6.05% Second hand cars purchased from franchise dealers

 

13,322 15,230 14.32% Upholstered furniture

 

14,024 14,530 3.61% Women’s clothing

 

11,732 14,390 22.66% Internet Service Providers

 

13,536 14,246 5.25% Leather furniture

 

11,567 12,979 12.21% Total complaints

819,815 874,171 6.63%

[Kraken1]

Note - they are only the top 10 complaints.

 

They might not give advice, but they do record the numbers of complaints and do pass these on to Trading standards and the OFT.

 

They should also 'signpost' a caller with a complaint about a dca to CABs or similar.

 

Bottom line is that they will keep a tally of the number of complaints they get, even if they don;t advise.

[Kraken1]

from here:

 

Consumer Direct - About Consumer Direct

 

Consumer Direct is the government-funded telephone and online service offering information and advice on consumer issues. Consumer Direct is funded by the Office of Fair Trading and delivered in partnership with Local Authority Trading Standards Services.

 

The information and intelligence collected by Consumer Direct is then used to inform and focus the resources and work of the OFT and Local Authority Trading Standards Services.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Noted, Kraken1, and I take your point. However, the standard fob-off response of a number of Trading Standards departments indicates that other, local, criteria are used when determining whether or not to deal with complaints against DCAs.

[Fuzzgin]

When I complained about Intrum Justicia to Consumer direct, I didn't get so much as an acknowledgement from them. Intrum stopped calling but whether they got a telling off worthy of their 5 calls a day for a "debt" they couldn't or wouldn't substantiate, I don't know. When I called consumer direct I felt like the guy was thinking that if I got mixed up with such people it must be my fault (as he was telling me I wasn't on their system yet). You know the "no smoke without fire" saying?

[volvo]

Surely, an almost 'template letter' of individual complaints direct to Gordon Brown PM, at the House of Commons, London, would be delivered,(no need for proof of delivery etc.) and also, which would then be directed down the chain to the respective departmental ministers and ultimately to OFT etc, and just peraphs with an election coming they might just instigate some action to save their jobs and see proper enforcement action against complaints where there is NO enforceable agreement, what do you think as even if we only get 10% of 210,000 members reaction, that is a sudden 21,ooo complaints in a short time that i do not think they would ignore giving the current media attention etc.,!!!!

 

VOLVO