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Hfc Couldnt Send Me My Cca For Marbles Card


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I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your reply confirming you do not have an agreement for this account

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

__________________

 

Dont sign it just type your name

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Well they have complied with your request...the one in post 3 mentions pages 2/3/4, they havent sent these, we dont know whats on them, but can assume the prescribed terms will be there.

 

The T&Cs in post4 arent the ones, because they are pages 1&2 of something else.

 

Technically the prescribed terms should be "within the four corners" of the document you signed, however some judges will accept it if they are overleaf

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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i had exactly the same letter back from HFC regarding a GM card. My problem FYI is Reston's solicitors turned up in court and got a judgement by showing the judge there had CC statements. the letter posted here will certainly help me put me in good stead when request to have the judgemnent set aside. do want restons using the same tricks on anyone else. its time to put them to the sword

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i had exactly the same letter back from HFC regarding a GM card. My problem FYI is Reston's solicitors turned up in court and got a judgement by showing the judge there had CC statements. the letter posted here will certainly help me put me in good stead when request to have the judgemnent set aside. do want restons using the same tricks on anyone else. its time to put them to the sword

 

 

This is where you have to have legal argument and case law standing by, the fact that you used the card and they have statements to prove it, doesn't matter, if they haven't got a valid CCA, then they simply made you a gift of the money...and there is case law to show this.

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Have myself been defaulted by HFC/Marbles and got the same documents - basically constructed aren't they.

 

Could some expert identify from the examples on this thread by OP what's not or is 'allowed' to make that document a valid cca - or not?

 

I have written so many times to HFC / Marbles and they never reply nowadays. They tried passing it to some dca (1st credit or somebody - too much bad stuff for me to remember) but once I sent a pound for CCA they never wrote back. Keep getting statements off them but not paid anything since a few months now because they defaulted me.

 

What's worrying me is whether these cca and t+c documents HFC / Marbles send everybody are actually valid etc?

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oh and they also used all that 'without prejudice' on their letters just as they did to OP in the letter above as well.... why??

 

If they mark their letter "without prejudice" it cant be used in court, except when the case has been decided, and the question of costs arises.

 

On the question of CCA enforceability The "prescribed Terms" must be "within the four corners" of the document you signed.....an application form can double as an agreement, but it must have these terms within it.

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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ITS A TRICKY 1 :confused:

IS PAGE 2 THE THE PRESCRIBED T&CS AND IS PAGE 2 ON THE REVERSE OF PAGE 1...???

 

IM INCLINED TO THINK IT ISNT... ELSE THEY WOULD HAVE JUST COPIED THAT AND SENT IT TO ME...

 

WOULD IT BE WORTH SAR ING THEM???

 

WOULD THEY THEN HAVE TO SHOW WHAT IS ON THE BACK OF THIS APPLICATION FORM???

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You could try the SAR, but i dont think you will get any further to be honest, the only real way you will know for sure is if a claim is brought and you insist on the original being brought to the hearing.

 

Most of these were held on microfiche, and only the front of it was saved.

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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IS IT WORTH SENDING THIS?

IT MAY GIVE THEM A PUSH TO SEND PAGES 2,3 AND 4 THAT ARE MENTIONED AT THE BOTTOM..

Thank you for your response to my letter dated xxxxxx 2008, making a formal request for a true copy of the original credit agreement for the above account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

The documents you supplied me appear to be no more than an application form, and as such are not a satisfactory response to my request. Nowhere on the front of the document is there any reference to the prescribed terms and conditions that such an agreement must contain. I must assume that these are unconnected documents and once again inadequate to satisfy your obligations.

 

As you are aware you are obliged to provide me with a true copy of my agreement as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974. and I consider that you have failed to comply with my request for these documents

 

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested documents. This deadline has now passed and I have not received the requested documents from you.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms is completely unenforceable & I therefore consider that this account is in dispute with immediate effect & it follows that all payments to this account are suspended forthwith.

 

I draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.

You must not pass this account to any third party.

You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

You must not issue a default notice on this account

I hereby give you notice that if you proceed with any of the above actions, I will file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Yours faithfully

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I Am Going To Just Ask Hfc For A Copy Of The T&cs That Corespond To The Application..

Lets See What They Say....

 

 

 

Dear Sir's

 

Thank You For The Copy Of My Application Form That You Have Sent.

Unfortunately The Terms And Conditions That You Sent To Me Do Not Correspond With The 1's Mentioned At The Bottom Of The Application Form.

Please Can You Send Me The Original T&c's That Do Correspond With The Application Form?

 

Yours Faithfully

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  • 2 weeks later...

i had a reply back today for the letter i sent requesting the original t&cs that corrospond with my cca.

It doesnt look like they have them.

Does this make my cca unenforcable now??

 

vrd8o2.jpg

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IM NOT TO SURE WHERE TO GO ON THIS 1.

EVEN THOUGH THEY CANNOT PROVIDE ME WITH THE CORRECT T&CS I THINK THAT REFERENCE TO THE t&CS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE COULD GO AGAINST ME IN COURT... ??????????

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There is always that risk, but this isn't in court yet, for what its worth, I don't believe it.

I don't think those T&Cs are apart of the original contract (you would put them to strict proof of this)

 

Further the "Prescribed Terms" must be within the document you signed.

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Hi Andreamour

 

How did you get on with this by the way ?

Just wondering as I have got a credit card originally from marbles that then went to orange and now beneficial bank.

Missed a few payments due to this recession and now getting loads of hassle off them demanding payment , thinking of the CCA request and see if it comes back like yours.

Keep you posted thanks

 

Karl:?

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