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Congestion zone signage


alf2009
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I need some help here. Driving anticlockwise around the edge of the London Congestion zone in Cheyne Walk Chelsea, no right turn over Battersea Bridge where I wanted to go so dived into the first road that didnt say Zone which was the exit from the Cheyne Walk 'loop', actually a one way street the wrong end. Spun the car and carried on. SW3 5LW is near it.

 

I got a Congestion charge with number plate photo, timed at 5.58pm!

 

I wrote back explaining the above, saying I had no idea, it was dark, wet, late, I wasnt coming out of the zone, hadnt been in it as far as I was aware.

 

It went to appeal, and I remembered all the signs must have been facing the other way on that street, not facing out to the main road as it was the wrong end of a one way street, no big red C on the road, and any signs on the main road were advising the next Oakley Street left took you into the zone. So I appealed and it was rejected.

 

Now its going to court by letter, and I just received a registered wedge of their court evidence. Ive never done this before and wonder should I just pay whatever it is, they keep sending me separate letters for £180, £60 doubled plus £60 more because I cant afford it to go any higher if they can add court fees and dont feel confident that my argument that the signs faced the wrong way stands up to their 50 page diatribe about atomic clocks, signs and the like. I live too far away to go back and double check the spot.

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Thanks for starting the obvious - sometimes when you rack your brains alone on these issues the facts get fogged out by your own indignation.

 

Does anyone know do I just pay the fine online and that's it? I expect its £180 now or does it go back to £60 while the case is under appeal?

 

I actually drove past the road yesterday and can see why I thought it was OK, the no entry sign faces 180 degrees the wrong way and you wouldn't know until its too late you'd made a mistake.

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If the No Entry signs are facing the wrong way, then it cease to be no entry and any TRO making the street one-way is void until the signage is corrected.

 

As the street has ceased to be one-way due to the incorrect signage, then TfL have failed to sign a potential entry to the charging zone and this should be enough to have the penalty charge cancelled.

 

You will need pictures of the signage and you will also need to take this all the way to the adjudicator probably.

 

As an afterthought, if that street is also on the entrance/exit of a CPZ, the CPZ is also voided.

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I agree with pat. As its TfL they ( or rather the company that does the processing) will deny everything and force it all the way to adjudication. With provably defective signage they will not want the adjudicator to make an official finding and will probably fail to show for the adjudication. But you still have to make your case properly ! meanwhile they are making loads of money from this. complain to councillors and your MP.

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During the appeal to PATAS the penalty is £120.

If you lose and fail to pay promptly the penalty will go up to £180.

 

Agree with PatDavies. Inadequate signage is the key.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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I te rad yu entered is Danvers St I ail t see w yu could not have realised it is one way it has an unbroken dashed line across jct and No Entry painted on Road in big white letters?

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=danvers+street,+Kensington,+London+SW10,+United+Kingdom&sll=51.482836,-0.172347&sspn=0.000348,0.001062&ie=UTF8&ll=51.482505,-0.17217&spn=0.000348,0.001062&t=h&z=20&iwloc=addr

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Good point G&M, but only the no entry signs are capable of allowing enforcement of a no entry.

 

Road marking are additional to these signs and cannot stand alone. Without proper signage, they are graffitti.

 

Whilst I accept that it should have been fairly obvious that this was a no entry, without the correct signs facing in the correct direction, then technically it is not.

 

The concept of whether a reasonable man could be expected to infer the restriction/prohibition is removed by case law (Davies v Heatley). If it is not signed as defined in TSRGD than it doesn't exist.

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Thank you for the points mentioned. I will post a couple of photos I took yesterday. The junction is Cheyne Walk and the main road at the Albert Bridge end. There are double dotted lines across it but the No Entry sign is facing the oncoming traffic on the river side of the main road and the Congestion zone ends sign faces the traffic on the main road not the traffic leaving the side road. They are almost facing each other.

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Here I hope are 5 pics of the junction. The turn is just behind the 'Pink ' truck, car view ( big tree obscures the junction as you approach; looking out of the side road, from the other side and from across the road. 360 degrees. The signs seem to point in odd directions. It was about 6pm November so it was dark and heavy traffic when it happened.

 

Any observations and thought welcome.

 

DSCF0069.jpg

 

 

DSCF0074.jpg

 

DSCF0080.jpg

 

 

DSCF0081.jpg

 

DSCF0088.jpg

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Hi

 

With no strong comments either way I'm not feeling too confident about this now so I'd better just pay the fine and get on with life.

 

Thanks for looking

 

There is no point in giving up now.:rolleyes:

 

The cost is the same whether you pay now or if the adjudicator rules against you. You can't lose any further and may win - paying nothing.

 

Only if the adjudicator rejects your appeal and you still don't pay will it increase further. There are no costs in going to appeal.

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I don't know if I've read your photo's correctly, but here goes....

 

Looking at the last pic, with red car entering from left, am I right in my assumption that the "No Entry" sign is to prevent traffic travelling from right to left, and entering the bit where the red car is coming from, but on this side of the road, of course?

 

If that is correct, then if you were to travel along the same bit as the red car, then was there a "No Left Turn" to prevent you from entering that side road?

 

Whilst in Stoke-on-Trent recently - I missed a "No Left Turn" sign, started to left left, and then wondered why the angle was a bit obtuse - there was no "No Entry" sign, and that side road in your pic looks a bit obtuse to me.

 

Doesn't help you, of course, 'cos it could mean that you've still missed the sign, but not the sign that you thought you had missed!

 

Or have I got it totally wrong, and should I go into the kitchen, wash up, and shut up!

 

Sam the Eagle

All of these are on behalf of a friend.. Cabot - [There's no CCA!]

CapQuest - [There's no CCA!]

Barclays - Zinc, [There's no CCA!]

Robinson Way - Written off!

NatWest - Written off!

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  • 1 month later...

As a final follow up, I went to the Adjudicators tribunal with photos and a plan. Though he agreed the signage was hopeless, and I'd have a case if it was a motoring offence, he said for Congestion Charges he had no power to adjudicate whether or not the signage was adequate, only if I was in the zone at the time. However, he reduced the charge back down from £120 to £60 and put the pics on file.

 

Thanks for the encouragement to go on the day, it saved me £60 and was quite painless.

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