Northern Rock County Court Claim Form

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

You will need to appear on the court date.

 

Is the case being heared at your local county court ?

 

Now i remember that you have an enforcable loan agreement but the default notice was not correctly set out due to lack of time to rectify the agreement.

 

The reason you needed to defend from the start was that you needed the case to be brought to your local court and come to a agreement with what you can only afford with the judge.

 

The second battle is with a charging order against your home and that is the most important fact.

 

Arguements when you are in court to defend the CO.

 

(1)joint mortgage - is this fair to be placed a co if your spouse has joint rights on the property.

 

(2)unfair towards your other creditors (have they been notified by the NR)

 

(3)How much equity do you have ? (negative equity is no good for the NR)

 

My main point of view is that this is an unsecure loan and that how it should stand.

 

The judge will know you have made token payments and will be allowed to carry on but it is the charging order you will need to defend.

 

I wished i could give you more positive advice but you do have a written agreement. Ok the default notice is dodgy and a maybe a another cag member may help on that point but you need to go in person to court and show them you will not be bullied into a charging order.

 

When is the date and can anybody go with you for support.

 

By the way i did win my battle last year with them but the sharks are coming back again against me and my friend i have the same problem as you an enforcable loan agreement.

 

The banking system is trying to drag as many people in the courts as possible to claw back bad debt via owning your property.

 

Keep your chin up

 

Womble

[Starbar]

Hi Womble,

 

Yes its been heared at our local county court

 

Yes it is a joint mortgage

 

I do not believe NR have notified our other creditors

 

We have negative equity, now the prices have gone down.

 

Many thanks for the reply Womble, its been very hard the last couple of weeks.. Not knowing what to do.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Starbar
spelling

[Starbar]

If they get a charging order and we are unable to pay the amount they want can they make us sell our house?

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

No they cant force to sell your house.

 

Also you could say it would be unfair that your partner should suffer for your money problem .

 

Also negative equity! It looks to me that the judge would probably not allow the Co because of that fact alone.

 

It costs a creditor £1,000 for a charging order on a property.

 

You have a dodgy default notice against you. Print off 42 man response regarding the default notice. You will need to argue the point in court that it was not set out correctly. The judge will see that there is a written agreement on the loan BUT you must persuade that a Co should only be enforced if you fail a payment on the CCJ set by the court.

 

The only problem with a Co is that you cant remortgage, they cant force you to sell.

 

I hope this helps.

[Starbar]

Thanks Womble, what should I take with me to court

[womble72]

Main Points on the day.

 

(1)Dress Smartly.

(2)Take a friend for morale support.

(3)All the paperwork in which you have recieved so far.

(4)It would be best to take a in/outgoing sheet for expenditure.

(5)List of all your creditors.

 

The outcome will be that you come to an arrangement with the court of a monthly payment scheme. That is why point 4 would be benifical. They cant take what you havent got. A dodgy default notice may be a lost cause with the judge because of the enforced agreement.

 

You could print this off and take with you and state that the Nr have failed to send a proper default notice.

 

The purpose of the default notice (DN) is to let you know what you need to do to put a delinquent account back in order – if you ignore the DN then the creditor will register a default with the credit reference agencies – they may also elect to terminate the agreement if you do not remedy any breach stated within it.

 

That is the main purpose of issuing a DN and it is a requirement of the CCA 1974 that when one is issued by the creditor it must be in the correct format – the format for DN’s is stated in the Consumer Credit (Enforcement. Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983.

 

If the creditor issues a DN that doesn’t comply with the regulations then that notice cannot be seen to be valid – it would be unfair on the debtor to allow a creditor to make any enforcement against the debtor on the back of the invalid DN and it would be a clear breach of the CCA 1974.

 

In your case – the creditor has issued a DN that doesn’t comply with the regs so this is a breach of s88 of the CCA 1974 – it is therefore invalid – they proceeded to terminate the account without issuing a compliant DN and this is a breach of s87(1) (a) of the CCA 1974.

 

Once an account/agreement has been terminated it cannot be un-terminated unless both parties to the agreement allow this - this is something I am sure that you won’t want to do. The creditor can terminate an agreement at any time but how they do so will affect their rights at the point of termination – that is the important bit.

 

So where this leaves the creditor is in a situation where they have terminated the agreement between you but have not done so in a manner that would allow them to recover the entire balance owing under the agreement – they can only demand that sum after issuing you with a valid DN.

 

Simply put – if they were to demand the balance from you (because you fell behind with payments) without issuing a DN you would be within your rights to ignore this request – if they then terminate the agreement they effectively lose the right to ever demand the full balance owing under the agreement.

 

A non compliant DN must be viewed as not satisfying the requirements of the act – effectively it is the same as not issuing one in the first place and the net result is the same as above.

 

The most the creditor could do would be to pursue you for the amount stated in the DN – however if that amount was not an accurate representation of the arrears at the time it was issued then you would have grounds to defend against that claim.

 

Are you just waiting for a court date now Starbar.

[Starbar]

Hi Womble, My court date is this week

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

What day is it on ?

 

Im not to sure if the Nr will go for a Co on the day but strongly make your arguement stating that it is a un-secured loan.

 

Be assertive.

[Starbar]

Hi Womble,

 

It's on Wednesday lunch time, not looking forward to it at all

[womble72]

Good Luck for Wed.

 

Remember if they mention a Co give your points of why this should not happen.

 

Please keep me posted.

[stressed mum!]

Good luck for wednesday will be thinking of you, womble gave me the link to your thread as I'm in a similar situation been paying token payments for the last 5 months.

I hope you have someone with you I can imagine how worried you must be I would be the same in your shoes

take care let us know how you get on x

[womble72]

Good Luck for tomorrow Starbar.

 

I wished i could have done more to help.

 

All the Best.

 

Womble

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

How did you get on today in court.

[Starbar]

Hi Womble,

 

Wasn’t a bad day really:confused:, the Judge made a summary judgment order against me, so I have 14 days to pay the full amount plus cost.

 

The judge said that he had read my defence and I had no reasonable grounds for defending.

 

Asked me if I was trying to avoid paying, I said no..... The NR solicitor even said that I had never missed making some sort of payment even if it was just a token.

 

He said NR have a valid CCA and my point about the DN was not valid.

 

Basically said I had no defence, but then said I was right to defend the claim!...., because by doing so has saved me money/costs.

 

The judge said that if I’m not able to pay NR within 14 days they would go for a CO and they may get it, so I should go to court to defend myself.

 

The Judge was very pleasant and seemed a good decent person.

 

So I’m going to be heading back to court soon.

This may seem strange but it feels like a big weight has been lifted.

 

Thanks for your help and support Womble and everyone else, will be needing it again

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

It is always best to defend the case from the start and that includes an enforced agreement.

 

Now you need to defend the Co. I think the law at the moment states that you need to default on the County court Payments before they could have a Co. You could use many arguements including a joint mortgage, unfair to other creditors. Have the Nr notified your other creditors? It is a un secured loan and that how the agreement should stand.

 

I am glad you feel better after today. Court can be a very scary place but you had a friendly judge and not a hostile solicitor. There are lots of people (including me) who have an enforced loan agreement and maybe they will drag me back into court one day. I am in the same boat and it is hard to use any sort of defence when the agreement is enforceable.

 

Enjoy the rest of tonight.

 

Womble:)

[Starbar]

Hi Guys

 

 

I've not been around for a while due to my health problems, we have now received a hearing date later this month for our Interim Charging Order to be made final.

 

I’m currently going down the route of a DMP with the CCCS and I’m writing the letters tonight.

 

What should I do regarding the Courts should or how can I defend the CO being made final?

[Starbar]

HELP Should I try and defend the CO, if so I only have until tomorrow night to send in the defend... anyone?