Accused and so embarrassed

[Bookworm]

and he basically will rip into them.

So exactly what I suggested you do then.

[Surfer01]

Good stuff. Nice to see the little man standing up to the big bully!

[fairyprincess5]

Sorry to hear aboput your problems with teh Co - Op, one thing you should ask is that if two security staff watched you walk out the door, why didn't they stop you and bring you back to the store to sort the situation out?

 

You have two situations here:

 

Because you were on auto pilot and didn't pay for the item it is classed as theft as you picked the item up, didn't pay for it , walked out the store (once outside the store, and looking from a CCTV point of view it may look like you had made a mistake) but what security staff are trained to see if you pick the item up, if you dont pay, and then walk out the theft has been made.

 

However when you got home you realised what you done and telephoned the store to explain what happened, we are all human we do forget things sometimes and this situation is understandable. They shouldn't of acted the way they did as a "criminal" wouldn't take the item back or offer to pay for it.

 

The staff and manager had no right to talk to you the way they did, and they shoudl have given you a banning notice written on paper, not a verbal notice.

 

Hope this helps

[shezboy]

 

Because you were on auto pilot and didn't pay for the item it is classed as theft

 

It's not exactly the case as the store would have prove your INTENT to perminantley deprive the store of th egoods. This has been covered earlier in this thread which has turned out to be a cracking good thread.

 

Michael I am so glad that you have sought legal advice. The Co-Op are about to get a real kick in the backside and this store manager needs taking down a dark alley and 'spoken' to.

 

Good luck and kep us updated buddy

[082stewie]

Hi All,

I love this thread!! So interesting and took me away from my normal banking issues I am trying to resolve...A "welcome" break.

Just one question. I am sure Co-Op like most stores tag high price items. I would have thought something over £10 would have security tags for staff to be alerted when goods are removed from the site.

I had the same issue at Tesco recently when buying my little girl and outfit. Bleeper went crazy as I walked out, I did the usual looking around to see who activated the alarm and hey Presto!! It was me Security grabbed me and asked to look in the bag; I opened it and asked what the problem was. First thing the jerk said to me was, you stole from us. I then pulled the receipt out my pocket and almost fed it to him. They weren’t too quick to apologise but they did eventually, and then removed the security tags. But the initial shock got me, and then embarrassment with loads of people around did upset me. You DONT see security standing in front of everyone saying "sorry" my mistake! So I look like the thief.

Anyhow I think they are fully accountable and I hope you get well compensated, I think the way they acted is a shocker!

Good luck with this Mike, don’t forget to keep us posted.

Stewie

[shezboy]

Please read the following so that if you find yourself in a similar situation you can take the right action to ensure you not only get an apology but also can take legal action and sue the store.

 

If you are stopped by any member of staff at any store (not just the security staff) and they ask you to come back to the store you can flatly refuse to comply with their wishes. You are then free to go on your way.

 

IF they then grab a hold of you in ANY way they will have commited an act of "Common Assault".

 

At this point they SHOULD tell you that they are detaining you and the reason why.

 

This would be along the lines of "I am arresting you on suspicion of theft etc"

 

Just beause the store door alarms have activated does NOT give them the legal powers to detain you for any reason. If they ask to look in your bags you can refuse and continue to leave the store. Remember, they need enough eveidence that can be considered strong enough to justify giving them "suspicion". An door alarm activating as you pass by it does not give that justification.

 

As you have not stolen anything then they will now have committed the act of "Wrongful arrest". Even though they used the word 'suspicion'. For a member of staff to arrest you they would still need to have seen you select an item and know that you have not paid for it and are still in possesion of it.

 

If the member of staff is not 100% sure on any of the above parts then they shou have been trained NOT to stop you when leaving the store. This is how shoplifters get away so often. They are so quick with the selection and concealment of an item that the member of staff becomes unsure if they really did select and conceal the item. If there is ANY element of doubt then they should not stop the person when they leave the store.

 

If they then force you against your will to return to the store they are committing further offences.

 

Once they have you back inside the store they will take you to a private room where there SHOULD be another member of staff (usually female) and SHOULD be a female member of staff if you are female and they are male.

 

At this point you need to tell them that you wish to leave the room and the store. They will of course tell you that you cannot leave and that they are holding you until the police arrive.

 

When the police do arrive please make sure that you allow the store staff to put their side of things first. Remain very calm. The police will ask you for you side of the story. When they do simply tell them everything that happened from YOUR point of view. Tell them slowly and clearly, step by step.

 

As you will have been accused of theft ad being in possesion of the items which the store claims you have, they police will search you. When the police confirm that you do NOT have the items the police will allow you on your way.

 

The ploice MAY ask to see the stores CCTV footage and when the store confirms that they did not see you on CCTV then there is a clear cut case of false arrest and common assault. You may even push for False imprisonment

 

All in all the store is now in VERY deep legal trouble and your next port of call should be to your solicitor who wll happily jump all over the case.

Edited February 13, 2009 by shezboy

[mike16]

Hi Guys

 

Well firstly thankyou all so much for your kind words.

Well i have recieved a letter from the Coop as they have now concluded there investigations and as i thought they have labelled me BAd and as a theif with intent to decive them, i am so upset i cant tell you how much, i have lost nearly a stone in weight now and have hardly slept and keep being sick, the letter is quite lenghty so i will post important bits on now, i have told my solicitor and he has asked me to copy the letter and post it, as he wil ldeal with this on Weds.

So here goes

 

The statements have all identified that your visit to the store on6 th Feb was documented by CCTV and this footage was observed both in realtime and retrospectively by the authors of these statements.

Your actions on6th Feb were observed as they occured by a security gaurdmonitoring your instore journey vua CCTV as you collected the matress topper to the point where your transaction for the basket items was concluded, the same CCTV footage was viewed retorspectively by the store manager and a colleague acting on behalf of th coop loss prevention department.

As the Coops security gaurds are trained to observe consumer behaviour and identify any actions thaat are not in keeping with the standard patterns associated with the selection of goods and the payment process, your behaviour at the kiosk was considered to be unusual.

The footage shows that you made physical contact with the topper matress a number of times whilst the basket transaction was being administered, which would identify a personal awareness of the item on your part.

Had the security gaurd had the oppurtunity to prevent your exit of the car park with the topper matress in you possesion, you would have been asked to accomany the gaurd back to the store premises and the police would have been called to attend the location and deal with the incident in line with standard police procedure.

~The coop considers that the CCTV footage indicates that you were aware of the presence of the topper mattress at the kiosk, this awareness should have been sufficent to prompt the offer of payment for al lgoods that you selected during your visit, as a number of indivuals within our organisation consider your behaviour on the 6th FEb to not be in keeping with standard consumer activity, we do not feel that your personal explanantion is compatable with our observationsof your actions in the store at the time of the incident.

On this basis your compalint is not being upheld and i can confirm that the notice of exclusion served by the store manager Mr Hoult will apply accordingly, You do have the right to escalate this complaint however this must be completed in writing as telephone discussions will not be accepted in this matter.

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

Well there is the letter

no mention of my offer to pay, i personally think they only took statements of the security staff and the manager only, saying i touched the item a lot at the kiosk, i did not or i would have been leaning to one side a hell of a lot ???

Why did the security gaurd not approach me in the car park ?

Why monitor me from the moment i entered the store, did i look suspicous in my suit ???

I had suspicous behaiour and was acting in the normal shoppers way ??? did not realise there was a code of conduct to follow when shopping? i must read up on this to make me a better shopper.

My exclusion was verbal nothing was writtem.

 

Well all i can do now is photocopy this now and hand to my solicitor, but like i say this has made me feel really bad now, as they have now offically labelled me as a shoplifter / Theif, all i can say is guys, i am not.

 

Michael

[kiptower]

they have to be joking ( or covering the managers ar*e )

 

check it with you solicitor if you should do as they said to esculate the complaint

 

ask them for the "code of conduct when shopping" we would all like to know what this is

 

you informed them you didnt pay NOT them telling you , cant they read i wonder,

[mike16]

Exactly Kiptower, my mum and dad have just rang me, and they said the same " Conduct when shopping " Dad says he did not realise there was a ruling when shopping that we must adhere too.

I am so mad

[Michael Browne]

So the security guards (plural) watched you in real time, thought your actions were suspicious, yet did nothing to apprehend you either in the store or in the car park while you had a cigarette and took a phone call. Either you or they are telling porkies....and I don't believe it's you.

[mike16]

Hi Michael

 

Thankyou, Well i don't lie, i have never lied before and have no intentions too either.

They are just soooo protecting themselves so much here, and making me look like a badun....

[sam614]

absolute cover up,

dont let them get away with this,

best of luck:)

 

 

sam:plowell detester

[shezboy]

This is 100% out of order!!! The reply from the Co-Op is the biggest pile of crap I have ever heard. I can assure you that IF the security officer(s) had observed your actions in real time then you would have been detained in the car park and returned to the store.

 

I get the feeling that the statements have been pretty much written for the people who have signed them rather than them writing them themselves.

 

You have to escalate this incident. I am outraged by this Micheal and I really wish you could take this to the papers. It's just so damn wrong. There is no conduct of a shopper.

 

Yes, some shoplifters do act differently than normal shoppers though trust me this is not an easy thing to spot. The Co-Op really are talking crap here and I hope your solicitor takes them apart.

[mike16]

Hi Shezboy

 

I agree with you, it is total crap, i never ever thought in my life i would be in this kind of situation and it is so bad, i can't get it out of my head and it is making me so ill.

Well photocopying the letter this morning and then posting it through the door of the solicitor today, he is back on Wednesday and i presume he will send a letter to them.

As soon as i have more info i will let you know

 

Mike

[fairyprincess5]

ok, from reading what CO - OP said the store manager and staff member watched you on CCTV what you need to ask is if they can as viewing CCTV is a data protection act as they must keep what has happened to themselves and not tell others about what happened. Also do you know if the guards are in house? or are bought in via an agency? as they may need a licence to actually view the CCTV under the new SIA regulations (Licence Wizard - Security Industry Authority)

If it is the case that they need a licence then under no circumstances are managers or staff allowed to have a look at CCTV because of Data Protection.

 

From the CO - OP side they see that you picked the item up - went to the tills to pay for other items - did not pay for the item (in which they see that you had the chance to pay at the till) - walked out the store with the item (still no payment) in their eyes they see it as theft because you didn't pay for the item when you went to the tills and the theft was complete when you walked out the store.

But then security didn't stop you? that doesn't sound right as a security officers job is to stop theft or loss to the company so not to stop you would have been a loss to the company.

 

You should go back to the CO - OP and say that you understand where they are coming from but all the camera's pick up is you picking the item up - not paying - walking out the store (theft) but you need to state to them that you did not INTEND to steal the item and that it was a case of human error, and that you offered them many chances to pay for this item and when you realised what you did wrong you telephoned them out of good will to explain themselves.

 

The store manager, staff and security guards seem very biased on this case and you should state this to them.

 

The case has gone Over The Top.

all the best

[mike16]

Hi

 

Well i think they have an outside agency that provides the Security for them, i have tried contacting the store, but as soon as i speak they place the phone down on me.

I have gave the letter i have recieved from the Co-op to my solicitor now, he is off till Wednesday, so i imagine he will either call them or Write to them.

I imagine in his letter he will ask about the SIA licence issues.

Thanks everyone you are all so kind to help me here, it is so distressing and is reassuring to know that people are here to help you out.

Thanks

 

Michael

[fairyprincess5]

Hi

 

At least you have a solicitor on your case you will win this battle !

Like I said if it is an outside agency providing CCTV then the manager and other staff can not view the images without a licence, and must have filled a form in about Data protection.

 

Let us know how you get on. All the best

[fairyprincess5]

Hi just done a quick search on the net about Co Op and the security turns out they are in fact external using an agency called AEGIS to provide them with retail security.

 

Take a look at the report: Co-op security arm to bid for external contracts - Crain's Manchester Business

 

You will find that the security must display SIA badges at all times.

 

Hope this helps you out a bit more.

[mike16]

Well just to let you know, i have handed in the copies of the letters i have recieved from the Co-op to a solicitor today, and i will see what his opinion is, I am hoping he will see fit in this case.

Everyone i have told about is like Well shocked, so will let you all know how i get on.

Thanks once again for all your assistance and great advice everyone

Mike

[SilverLining]

Please read the following so that if you find yourself in a similar situation you can take the right action to ensure you not only get an apology but also can take legal action and sue the store.

 

If you are stopped by any member of staff at any store (not just the security staff) and they ask you to come back to the store you can flatly refuse to comply with their wishes. You are then free to go on your way.

 

IF they then grab a hold of you in ANY way they will have commited an act of "Common Assault".

 

At this point they SHOULD tell you that they are detaining you and the reason why.

 

This would be along the lines of "I am arresting you on suspicion of theft etc"

 

Just beause the store door alarms have activated does NOT give them the legal powers to detain you for any reason. If they ask to look in your bags you can refuse and continue to leave the store. Remember, they need enough eveidence that can be considered strong enough to justify giving them "suspicion". An door alarm activating as you pass by it does not give that justification.

 

As you have not stolen anything then they will now have committed the act of "Wrongful arrest". Even though they used the word 'suspicion'. For a member of staff to arrest you they would still need to have seen you select an item and know that you have not paid for it and are still in possesion of it.

 

If the member of staff is not 100% sure on any of the above parts then they shou have been trained NOT to stop you when leaving the store. This is how shoplifters get away so often. They are so quick with the selection and concealment of an item that the member of staff becomes unsure if they really did select and conceal the item. If there is ANY element of doubt then they should not stop the person when they leave the store.

 

If they then force you against your will to return to the store they are committing further offences.

 

Once they have you back inside the store they will take you to a private room where there SHOULD be another member of staff (usually female) and SHOULD be a female member of staff if you are female and they are male.

 

At this point you need to tell them that you wish to leave the room and the store. They will of course tell you that you cannot leave and that they are holding you until the police arrive.

 

When the police do arrive please make sure that you allow the store staff to put their side of things first. Remain very calm. The police will ask you for you side of the story. When they do simply tell them everything that happened from YOUR point of view. Tell them slowly and clearly, step by step.

 

As you will have been accused of theft ad being in possesion of the items which the store claims you have, they police will search you. When the police confirm that you do NOT have the items the police will allow you on your way.

 

The ploice MAY ask to see the stores CCTV footage and when the store confirms that they did not see you on CCTV then there is a clear cut case of false arrest and common assault. You may even push for False imprisonment

 

All in all the store is now in VERY deep legal trouble and your next port of call should be to your solicitor who wll happily jump all over the case.

 

do you work in security?

[SilverLining]

Sorry to hear aboput your problems with teh Co - Op, one thing you should ask is that if two security staff watched you walk out the door, why didn't they stop you and bring you back to the store to sort the situation out?

 

As I mentioned in earlier post, because they did not see the act take place!

[shezboy]

do you work in security?

 

I did for many years, including retail for Sainsbury Stores and Tesco as well as a CCTV operator for a major UK city in the Midlands (which was fun)

[mike16]

Hi Guys

 

No heard anything from the solicitor yet, i did ring and his assistant did say he would have to look at everything in detail, so i suppose it will take a little time.

Hope everyone is ok ?

 

Michael

[sam614]

Hi Guys

 

No heard anything from the solicitor yet, i did ring and his assistant did say he would have to look at everything in detail, so i suppose it will take a little time.

Hope everyone is ok ?

 

Michael

 

 

 

hi. it will take time,a good solicitor will sort this for you,

discusting how you were treated and the explanation given is laughable,

hope that you are not still stressing over these morons,re read your thread,they will not

have a leg to stand on.

 

remember they ONLY know that it was not payed for because YOU told them

 

IF as claimed they thought your actions were suspicious WHY WERE YOU NOT STOPPED FROM LEAVING?

as already been said:)

hope its soon sorted for you

[mike16]

Thanks Sam

 

It has been very upsetting, i feel ashamed and very dirty still, i cant go in to any shops where i live as i feel people are talking about me, as it is a very close knit village/ small town.

I now shop in another county, and even though i have done this i still feel very uncomfortable.

I had a bit of a week this week, i came home on Weds and picked up the post from the door mat about 5 x letters and from the look of them at first on the mat all loooked like junk, so i just started tearing them open and one of them i had opened contained 3 x £25.00 gft vouchers for M&S, at first i was like WOW, then when i saw who it was addressed to it was for someone else who lived in the village, quite a bit away as well, so i got the BT phone book and luckily he was in it, i rang him and he said he would be down in jiffy to collect.

Anyhow he come and collected and moaned about the post office etc, and on leaving he said, how nice it was to meet someone soooo honest and nice.

I went into the kitchen to make coffee and thought " Thankyou "

I did this as i would like to think if that happened to me, it would be returned in favour " Karma "

Well went out yesterday and my mates said, yo are a T**t, they would have kept them etc...... but they alll said it was my nature to be honest.

 

I just hope this matter does get sorted, as the thought of the media etc, getting involved does scare me, everyone knowing my business and then people turning the situation round and making me look bad.

 

All i can say is, i am not a bad person

 

Michael