£25,000 natwest loan. Waiting for copy of cca.

[ashbypl128]

Hello to everyone. Requesting true copy of credit agreement from NatWest for £25,000 loan .Sent recorded delivery and signed for on 28th january.Will wait and see what returns.Will keep you all posted.

[steven4064]

We'll watch with interest

[newward]

Hi ashbypl128, read my threads if you get a chance, just an idea of the ups and downs you're likely to experience over the coming months!

[paulwlton]

Hello to everyone. Requesting true copy of credit agreement from NatWest for £25,000 loan .Sent recorded delivery and signed for on 28th january.Will wait and see what returns.Will keep you all posted.

 

When did you take the loan out?

[ashbypl128]

Thanks Neward. I think I have read most of them with great interest.

Hi paul.

Loan taken out July 2005. £16,000 left to pay.

[ashbypl128]

Ok folks here we go.........................

The reply I got is..

 

Dear Mr ........

Re. Request for copy, Credit Agreement under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

We refer to your correspondence dated 26 January 2009, and apologise for the delay in our response.

 

We regret to advise that the loan agreement has been misfiled and despite searching our records we have been unable to locate it. Regrettably we are unable to comply with your request made under s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act and return the £1 you paid. notwithstanding this the loan agreement remains valid and we expect you to continue to meet your obligations under the agreement. We should point out that if you cease to make future payments as they fall due we will report the default to Credit Reference Agencies ("CRA's").

 

If you require more details about your loan we will be pleased to supply whatever details we have in our records. Should further assistance be required, please do not hesitate to contact us at the above office.

 

 

There we go folks....

What do I do next please.

[newward]

I'd say that you need to issue them now with a CPR. The FOS will not look at your case, until Natwest have issued a final response/or the 8 week deadline has passed from the day I sent my first letter- mine ends next week, and I've already issued the CPR, a few weeks back, nothing back yet, so another one to go out soon - which will give them another few weeks to find an agreement - then its off to court. I have found someone who is willing to take a look at my case. He is an ex-IFA, who is now specialising in un-enforceable loans, and recovering the costs etc,through the lender. Let me know if you want his details.. you have exactly the same issue as me, you're just slightly behind me. Have you asked for PPI back as well? I am getting a gesture of good will from them, on 6 loans/credit card in total, over the coming months. I stopped making payments from last month - have you done so?

[ashbypl128]

Thanks Neward.

I didn't take any PPI out with loan and I haven't stopped paying loan yet, Do you think I should stop now? thanks.

[newward]

Its a personal decision to be honest.. on my thread, you'll see I was becoming indecisive, but then took courage of my convictions, and have stopped paying. I have done everything I can, and I am essentially at checkmate with Natwest now. I'll escalate to the FOS again next week,and chase this guy up, who has given my details to his lawyer.

[paulwlton]

Morally one should continue to pay back the money they borrowed. However, the law is clear... whilst in default of a binding request the bank are precluded form enforcement. It's your shout.

[paulwlton]

Its a personal decision to be honest.. on my thread, you'll see I was becoming indecisive, but then took courage of my convictions, and have stopped paying. I have done everything I can, and I am essentially at checkmate with Natwest now. I'll escalate to the FOS again next week,and chase this guy up, who has given my details to his lawyer.

 

Forget the FOS.

[newward]

I hear you.. A lot of people say they are not impartial, and are limbless..the case officer, did sound like she had an interest in this case, and they tell me they have written to Natwest on my behalf as well, to note their concern. I may just use the fact that they cant find the agreement, as a bargaining tool, o pay a much reduced settlement figure. If the loan, was 18k to begin with, I have paid back 12k already, and the loan is still 20k..what would any of you suggest is a reasonable figure. I am thinking 6k.. ie the differential between what I have paid so far altogether, and the amount of the loan?

[Goldlady]

That sounds totally fair to me - after all if they can't produce your agreement they had no right to charge interest.

[ashbypl128]

thanks everyone. is there a template letter for cpr request or can anyone show me a letter to send.

many thanks.

[newward]

by all means, use mine, should be on page 3 of my thread

[ashbypl128]

thanks neward. this a bit confusing to me all these letters and names.what is a cpr and can you or anyone post a letter for me on here to copy and edit that would be great. sorry to be a pain.

[newward]

Hi sure,just delete as appropriate..

 

 

Manchester Retail

Customer Service Centre

1 Hardman Boulevard

Manchester

M60 3NS

 

 

FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

CPR part 31.16

 

Dear Sir/madam

 

Account number: xxxxxxx S/C xxxxxxxx

 

I have previously requested a copy of my loan agreement, which you have been unable to provide – as you “mislaid it” and you state that you “have been unable to locate it.”

 

* I have reason to believe that the agreement may have been improperly executed and/or that no valid or enforceable agreement exists between us

 

* I also believe that I have been mis-sold payment protection

 

I must stress that the particular request, I am making through this letter, is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy ( through lack of the original ). will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request..

 

Since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings, and given that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, I must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me.

 

The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim I may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation.

 

Therefore I again ask that you provide me with the documents which I have previously requested . I don't not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request I will be left no option but to make an application to my local County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which i have requested. If this order is thereby granted I understand failure to comply would be considered Contempt of Court.

 

In addition to this,I will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary

 

Please confirm by no later than 4pm on 6th February that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing.

 

 

Please also be informed that the Financial Services Ombudsman, The Information Commissioner, and my local branch of Citizens Advice Bureau, in the City of London – together with their legal team, are currently assessing my case. I have also recently written to the OFT, and my local Trading Standards group, in Guildhall, London. I have also made the main Credit Reference Agencies, aware of our current dispute

 

Should you be unwilling to enter into negotiations to resolve this matter out of Court then please pass this correspondence on to your Legal Department for their immediate attention and since this letter is the first stage of intended court action I may be forced to instigate, you are required under the general pre-action protocol of the CPR to send me any information I request. Please therefore supply me with a copy of any and all documents in your possession that you will be relying on as a defence to this claim.

 

 

All the information you need is on this part of my thread :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/177986-unenforceable-loan-2.html

[ashbypl128]

Many thanks again Neward.

How does this look?

 

 

 

 

National Westminster Bank Plc.

Customer Service Centre

740 WatersideDrive

Aztec West,

Almondsbury

Bristol

BS99 5BD.

 

FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

CPR part 31.16

 

Dear Sir/madam

 

Account number: ******************* Your ref: ***********************

 

I have previously requested a copy of my loan agreement, which you have been unable to provide – as you state that you have “misfiled it” and you “have been unable to locate it.”

 

I have reason to believe that no valid or enforceable agreement exists between us.

 

I must stress that the particular request, I am making through this letter, is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy ( through lack of the original ). will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request..

 

Since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings, and given that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, I must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me.

 

The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim I may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation.

 

Therefore I again ask that you provide me with the documents which I have previously requested. I don't consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request I will be left no option but to make an application to my local County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which i have requested. If this order is thereby granted I understand failure to comply would be considered Contempt of Court.

 

In addition to this,I will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary.

 

Please confirm by no later than 4pm on 20th March that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing.

 

Should you be unwilling to enter into negotiations to resolve this matter out of Court then please pass this correspondence on to your Legal Department for their immediate attention and since this letter is the first stage of intended court action I may be forced to instigate, you are required under the general pre-action protocol of the CPR to send me any information I request. Please therefore supply me with a copy of any and all documents in your possession that you will be relying on as a defence to this claim.

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours faithfully

my name.

 

 

Sending recorded delivery 2moz and giving them till 20th march.

[ashbypl128]

Anyone please.

does this look ok to send.

thanks.

[newward]

I think it looks fine. Sorry for the delay in replying - best of luck, and keep in touch with me. I'll do the same with mine

[ashbypl128]

many thanks neward i will post it 2moz.

good luck 2 you.

[ashbypl128]

Here is quick reply i got today

 

*************************************

 

Re: Request for copy, Credit Agreement under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

We refer to your correspondence dated 18th january 2009.

 

In the circumstances we appreciate that under s.77((4) of the Consumer Credit Act if you decide not to meet your obligations under the loan as they fall due we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan by court action. Nevertheless, as we have already advised, we expect you to meet your obligations under the agreement, bearing in mind that the agreement isn't void, and remains valid.

 

Therefore for the avoidance of doubt and as previously advised if you do not make the loan repayments as they fall due we will report your default to the Credit Reference Agencies ("CRA's").

 

The RBS group and other companies may use the record of the default and any other information provided to the CRA's when considering applications by you, or anyone else with whom you have joint account or similar financial association, for facilities including motor, household, credit, life and general insurance. The existence of information on accounts in default at the CRA's may impair your ability to obtain credit or other financial facilities such as current accounts for a period of up to 6 years.

 

Should any further assistance be required including help with setting up or amending the payment date for the a Standing Order or Direct Debit please do not hesitate to contact us at the above office.

 

*****************************

 

1. From what they are saying is they are "unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan by court action" if I decide not to make repayments.

 

2. They say "We expect you to meet your obligations under the agreement, bearing in mind that the agreement isn't void,and remains valid".

Well where is the agreement. No agreement. not valid. Is that correct?

 

 

Any ideas or suggestions on next plan of action will be much appreciated.

[newward]

Hi Ashby, I received this reply quite a while ago.. I have stopped paying, I am now 2 months behind.. no letter from Natwest in terms of defaulting me, and although I haven't checked thoroughly, I don't see them reporting me to the CRA's. My case is with the FOS, and if you read my thread, the ICO has my complaint but is many months behind. I have now issued the company with the 2nd CPR, stating it is a LBA- letter before action.. you must also put in the subject title - without prejudice.

 

If you refer to my thread, the only way we may find a degree of finality on this issue, is to litigate ourselves, and take them to court ? I am certainly considering that.. or just offering them a very low amount as full and final settlement. On a more positive note, I am in the process of getting my PPI back from them, on all my loans and credit cards.. could be somewhere in the region of £5-7k. Good luck, and let me know if you need any more help. You may need to find a good consumer lawyer locally, or go to your CAB, and they may be able to put you in touch with one? take care