Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths **Claim Recieved** - ***WON***

[42man]

Interesting....I can't think of why they would have terminated the account twice, unless they made some sort of error on the original default....how it would potentially sit with a judge and the CCA74 i'm really not sure, although if the agreement is unenforceable then i'd say this would add ammunition to a successful defence...

[cab1ne]

Interesting....I can't think of why they would have terminated the account twice, unless they made some sort of error on the original default....how it would potentially sit with a judge and the CCA74 i'm really not sure, although if the agreement is unenforceable then i'd say this would add ammunition to a successful defence...

 

Mmmm!! "interesting" being an excellent choice of words.

iam under the impression that once an agreement had been terminated, regardless of what errors their may have been beforehand. FINITTO,DEFUNKT,DONE.

also page 1 on this thread #11 lombards letter might be enough to hand to a judge & say "DONT NEED NO DEFENCE M'LUD, THEY DONE IT FOR ME" lol!! especially http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt13/flinty56/lomblett04.jpg paragraph 1 under during my investigation

Edited February 14, 2009 by cab1ne
update

[cab1ne]

also as citizenb has pointed out i have been around the threads & the two days postage does count "senior master of the queens bench clarification 1985" also i have discovered via the threads it is 14 working days (monday to friday)

 

thus meaning this default should have a compliance on or about the 2nd august 2007???

Edited October 23, 2009 by cab1ne

[citizenB]

You might want to have a look at the thread linked below. Within that thread there is another link "Tale of A Dodgy DN".

 

Both should provide you with some interesting information.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/171718-creditor-has-sent-default.html

 

Thanks for looking in 42man x

[cab1ne]

WOW!!!!!!!! ive pasted that into a word doc,

is surfaceagentx20 some kind of wizzard ?

[cab1ne]

If an agreement is defaulted in July due to some arrears & then terminated in August because one did not comply with the default notice. we all know what the creditor is allowed to do.

 

To avoid any confusion lets not go into any unenforceable agreements, invalid defaults, or terminations. Lets just assume they are all correct.

 

“The point”

The creditor states the payments fall due on the 7th of every month.

So as I pay the arrears for the July default notice & my regular payments, then along comes the 15th august the TERMINATION pops thru the letter box “gob smacked” stating that I had not complied with the first default notice due to still being in arrears for the 7th August,(a bit confusing I know but it is legal).

So I get in touch with the creditor, they tell me to pay the arrears of £1299 / late payment fee £100/ + agent fees totalling £1898 to the DCA & then they would renew my agreement. I then think £1299 for one months arrears is a bit steep, so I dispute their claim via their in house complaint procedures.

Anyway time passes by as my complaint is being sorted, along comes the 18th October & bingo the DCA is knocking at my door demanding the £1898. I then escort the DCA off my property & then ask him to produce his documentation which clearly points out that they are collecting for the arrears covering August (that’s “ok”) September (“dodgy”) October (“very dodgy”) & if I could’nt pay they would repo the vehicle, being totally stupid & not having any legal knowledge at all I paid them.

 

“The question”

As they terminated the agreement in august, what gives them the right or what laws do they have for them to collect arrears for sept/oct ??? & what can I do to fight back at them.

[citizenB]

so just recapping on what i have got so far

 

1.Agreement unenforcable

2.default notices invalid

 

Does that make the termination notices "naughty" aswell ???

 

That's the way I read it:D TBH, I wouldnt have a clue how to go about processing the information. It might be a good idea to read a few threads where this has happened. I will try and find some links for you sometime tomorrow.

 

WOW!!!!!!!! ive pasted that into a word doc,

is surfaceagentx20 some kind of wizzard ?

 

Yup, he surely is. A long with quite a few other CAGers, who give their time and expertise.

 

If an agreement is defaulted in July due to some arrears & then terminated in August because one did not comply with the default notice. we all know what the creditor is allowed to do.

 

To avoid any confusion lets not go into any unenforceable agreements, invalid defaults, or terminations. Lets just assume they are all correct.

 

“The point”

The creditor states the payments fall due on the 7th of every month.

So as I pay the arrears for the July default notice & my regular payments, then along comes the 15th august the TERMINATION pops thru the letter box “gob smacked” stating that I had not complied with the first default notice due to still being in arrears for the 7th August,(a bit confusing I know but it is legal).

So I get in touch with the creditor, they tell me to pay the arrears of £1299 / late payment fee £100/ + agent fees totalling £1898 to the DCA & then they would renew my agreement. I then think £1299 for one months arrears is a bit steep, so I dispute their claim via their in house complaint procedures.

Anyway time passes by as my complaint is being sorted, along comes the 18th October & bingo the DCA is knocking at my door demanding the £1898. I then escort the DCA off my property & then ask him to produce his documentation which clearly points out that they are collecting for the arrears covering August (that’s “ok”) September (“dodgy”) October (“very dodgy”) & if I could’nt pay they would repo the vehicle, being totally stupid & not having any legal knowledge at all I paid them.

 

“The question”

As they terminated the agreement in august, what gives them the right or what laws do they have for them to collect arrears for sept/oct ??? & what can I do to fight back at them.

 

IMHO and if I read things correctly, once they have defaulted (invalid) and terminated then they have lost all their riights to collect monies which are due in the future. I will check out a few threads tomorrow and pop some links for you to have a look at.

[cab1ne]

That's the way I read it:D TBH, I wouldnt have a clue how to go about processing the information. It might be a good idea to read a few threads where this has happened. I will try and find some links for you sometime tomorrow.

 

 

 

Yup, he surely is. A long with quite a few other CAGers, who give their time and expertise.

 

 

 

IMHO and if I read things correctly, once they have defaulted (invalid) and terminated then they have lost all their riights to collect monies which are due in the future. I will check out a few threads tomorrow and pop some links for you to have a look at.

 

GOOD EVENING CITIZENB

 

thankyou for your help 100% appreciated.

i have been scowling the forum like a mad dog & i have found lots of info about my problem, but i have found them in individual problems. so iam finding it very hard to build up all the snippets i recieve or find on the forum & make a nice neat package. but i have the patience & the respect for caggers like yourself & the whole forum

 

"sittin tight"

[ncf355]

Hi Cab,

 

intrigued, where did you see a thread stating 14 working days for the default notice?

 

I know the service time (postage) cannot include weekends, but as far as I know the 14 days are just normal days, not working?

 

BTW, seems like you have them stitched up like a kipper

 

I think you could be in line for a SERIOUS amount of cash here, as they have taken payments on a secured agreement that a) is unenforceable and b) has been improperly terminated

 

Worth looking at SurfaceAgenctX20's thread on the work he did for a friend on a car agreement (HERE) that resulted in the friend coming out (I think) 20k better off

 

NICE!

[cab1ne]

Hi Cab,

 

intrigued, where did you see a thread stating 14 working days for the default notice?

 

I know the service time (postage) cannot include weekends, but as far as I know the 14 days are just normal days, not working?

 

BTW, seems like you have them stitched up like a kipper

 

I think you could be in line for a SERIOUS amount of cash here, as they have taken payments on a secured agreement that a) is unenforceable and b) has been improperly terminated

 

Worth looking at SurfaceAgenctX20's thread on the work he did for a friend on a car agreement (HERE) that resulted in the friend coming out (I think) 20k better off

 

NICE!

 

OMG:D

my mistake on the working days i got confused:rolleyes:

but as for the"seems like you have them stitched up like a kipper"

OMG:D:D:D:D

[cab1ne]

ncf355

thankyou for that snippet;) (the most powewrful one ive had so far)

 

now i have calmed down i shall re-cap

 

1.07/08/2006 unenforcable agreement8-)

2.12/07/2007 invalid default8-)

3.15/08/2007 invalid termination8-)

4.18/10/2007 this bit im still seeking advice & scouring the forums:confused: DCA's illegal activities

5.21/05/2008 second invalid default

6.18/02/2008 second invalid termination

 

Mmmmm just gets better:p

Edited February 16, 2009 by cab1ne
addage

[cab1ne]

found this info on a post by "BRW" helping out a cagger called "mberman"

 

The key issue is when Payments are due.

 

Routine Monthly Payments are due as of the date they fall due, and once you go past that date unpaid, they become Arrears.

 

my agreement does not show me when payment is due "HENCE" not in compliance with the

 

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1) (0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

 

this is the section of key financial information from my agreement

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt13/flinty56/KeyFinInf01.jpg

 

so the question being. could i be in arrears on the 7th of a month when my key financial information does not actually state when a Routine Monthly Payment is due:confused:

 

reading on in the above post is another valuable point by "BRW" The key is that the invalid Default Notice is 50% of the issue, the other 50% is the Termination. Put them together and they are ham strung, all they can ask for would be any valid Arrears that were due before Termination.

 

do i have any valid arrears

Edited February 16, 2009 by cab1ne
update

[ncf355]

Hang on a mo

 

Going back to page 1 of the agreement, taken from post #10 above, how does the price for the cab (£16,683.28 if I'm reading correctly?)

 

Then become - "total cash price" £19,748.10?

 

 

 

Also

 

 

£19,748.10

-

£500 (advance payment)

=

£19,248.10

+

£6736.70 (interest)

+

£200 (credit facility fee)

=

£25,824.80

 

 

=============================

 

Whereas

 

1 x £633.08 (£633.08

 

+

 

59 x £433.08 (£25,551.72)

 

=

 

£26,184.80

 

 

So, from what I see total charge for credit is incorrect?

 

(apologies, wont get to see your reply until tomorrow now, but that whole agreement looks seriously flawed to me)

 

 

 

 

42?

CitizenB?

 

 

What say you?

[cab1ne]

Hang on a mo

 

Going back to page 1 of the agreement, taken from post #10 above, how does the price for the cab (£16,683.28 if I'm reading correctly?)

 

Then become - "total cash price" £19,748.10?

 

 

 

Also

 

 

£19,748.10

-

£500 (advance payment)

=

£19,248.10

+

£6736.70 (interest)

+

£200 (credit facility fee)

=

£25,824.80

 

 

=============================

 

Whereas

 

1 x £633.08 (£633.08

 

+

 

59 x £433.08 (£25,551.72)

 

=

 

£26,184.80

 

 

So, from what I see total charge for credit is incorrect?

 

(apologies, wont get to see your reply until tomorrow now, but that whole agreement looks seriously flawed to me)

 

 

 

 

42?

CitizenB?

 

 

What say you?

 

cheers ncf355

 

Mmmmmm:| good point

catch u 2moro

[cab1ne]

maybe this segment from page two of the agreement might have some clues??

Edited February 16, 2009 by cab1ne
update

[cab1ne]

Whereas

1 x £633.08 (£633.08 (£200.00 of this is the credit facility fee) which is a one off payment

+

 

59 x £433.08 (£25,551.72)

 

=

 

£26,184.80

 

looking at the page 2 segment

 

cash price £19,748.10

deposit - £500.00

amount of credit = £19,248.10

intrest + 6736.70

this is the confusing bit:confused:

credit fee + £200.00

total charge for credit + £6936.70

 

i have paid the £200.00 credit facility which is a one off payment so should it not be showing a minus of that figure:confused:

 

total amount payable = £26,184.80 (£26,684.80) £500 difference

 

THEN

 

credit facility fee - £200.00

total amount payable = £25,984.80 (£26,684.80) £700 difference

Edited February 17, 2009 by cab1ne
update

[cab1ne]

my accountant has informed me it is correct.

 

amount of credit = £19,248.10

duration of agreement = 60 month @ £433.08 x by 60 = £25,984.80

toatal amount payable = £26,684.80

 

£26,684.80 - £25,984.80 = £700.00 = advance payment + credit facility fee

 

he said the agreement is confusing because it has to show all the figures

[cab1ne]

Hi Cab,

 

intrigued, where did you see a thread stating 14 working days for the default notice?

 

I know the service time (postage) cannot include weekends, but as far as I know the 14 days are just normal days, not working?

 

BTW, seems like you have them stitched up like a kipper

 

I think you could be in line for a SERIOUS amount of cash here, as they have taken payments on a secured agreement that a) is unenforceable and b) has been improperly terminated

 

Worth looking at SurfaceAgenctX20's thread on the work he did for a friend on a car agreement (HERE) that resulted in the friend coming out (I think) 20k better off

 

NICE!

 

Took some time ("sorry") but i found it

 

1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

 

This states:-

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

 

2. Practice Direction

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

 

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

 

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

 

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

 

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

8 March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

 

[cab1ne]

"OK"

i have just got off the phone with my accountant and he said could you please apologise to your friend for me the one that scrutinised the figures.

because this forced his hand to go thru my documents with a fine toothcombe and a fault with the figures have been found.

 

ncf355 (apologies from my accountant)

 

so lets take a look at the pre delivery registration details for the vehicle

 

[/url]

 

ROAD F/L DUTY PAID £107.25

 

now take a look at this section from the agreement

 

 

ROAD F/L £145.25

 

could any of your friends shed any light on that one for us and thankyou to your friend (ncf355)

Edited October 23, 2009 by cab1ne
correct links

[cab1ne]

DEFAULT - 12/07/2007 (alleged arrears)

TERMINATIONN - 15/08/2007 (not complying with default)

The creditor did on the 4th October 2007 send clear instructions to their agents (DCA) without the statutory 14 days notice in writing informing me of any dates, reasons, responsibilities or any intentions as to the visit at my home by the agents (DCA).

 

 

QUOTE

(SLIGHTLY RE WORDED FOR MY OWN BENEFIT) thnx "BRW"

In the Consumer Credit Act under section 87 there is a provision that allows you the creditor to , require immediate payment of the balance this is an amount that was, until termination, only payable in the future. An invalid default notice cannot be remedied by simply issuing a new default notice. You the creditor may not serve a second effective default notice in prescribed form post-termination of the agreement. Any such second default notice will necessarily state a date by when I would be required to comply after which in default the agreement would terminate. The second default notice would therefore contain the fiction that the agreement endured when that cannot be the case, as it was terminated on 15/08/2007. Terminating an agreement on the back of a defective default notice, simply confirms the undeniable truth that termination of an agreement by you the creditor was carried out in circumstances which then prohibited you from enjoying the benefits of Section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act, namely the opportunity to "require immediate payment of the balance of an amount that was, until termination, only payable in the future".

 

QUESTION

"Let us just rewind a bit" the creditor terminated the agreement on the “15th August 2007”.

So the alleged arrears for the “7th August 2006” could have been valid.

This leaving the alleged arrears for the “7th September 2006”, and the “7th October 2006”. Could any one please advise me as to when a payment only payable in the future could be deemed as arrears, The creditor states that payment falls due on the 7th of the month.

 

JUST A TRICKY BIT

"Rewind" the creditor sent clear instructions to the agents (DCA) on the 4th October 2007.

The creditor states payment falls due on the 7th of a month

 

Errrrrrr!!!!!! confused:shock:

 

 

 

[ncf355]

Cab,

 

I may get chance to look again over the weekend

 

In the meantime, get to the main "CCA" thread in "General" and see if you can get someof the other main guys (such as PT) to come to this thread and scrutinise the agreement

[cab1ne]

Cab,

 

I may get chance to look again over the weekend

 

In the meantime, get to the main "CCA" thread in "General" and see if you can get someof the other main guys (such as PT) to come to this thread and scrutinise the agreement

 

thnx ncf355

i have sent PM to pt

 

working on a few more:)

[ncf355]

Hi PT wont respond to PM's at the moment, just post on the main CCA thread

[cab1ne]

Hi PT wont respond to PM's at the moment, just post on the main CCA thread

 

"Okey Dokey"

just found this by accident on one of the .gov.org sites:cool:

The roles and responsibilities of the Financial Ombudsman Service, Financial Services Authority and the Office of Fair Trading

 

The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) formerly The Banking Ombudsman.

The Financial Ombudsman Service is a statutory, informal dispute resolution service, established under FSMA but independent from the FSA. It operates as an alternative to the civil courts. Its role is to resolve disputes between individuals or small businesses and financial firms quickly and with minimum formality on the basis of what is fair and reasonable in the circumstances of each case.

In considering what is fair and reasonable, The Financial Ombudsman Service will take into account the relevant law, regulations, regulators’ rules and guidance and standards, relevant codes of practice (such as the Banking Code), and good industry practice at the relevant time.

The Financial Ombudsman Service has three jurisdictions, covering nearly all financial services business:

• Compulsory jurisdiction

This applies to financial services firms authorised by the FSA, and covers consumer complaints about FSA-regulated activities, consumer credit activities and certain other specified activities.

• Consumer credit jurisdiction

The Consumer Credit Act 2006 created the consumer credit jurisdiction. This covers consumer credit complaints against any businesses with standard licences from the OFT not authorised by the FSA. If the licensee is also authorised by the FSA, its consumer credit complaints are covered by the compulsory jurisdiction.

• Voluntary jurisdiction

This applies voluntarily to financial businesses and activities that are not covered by the compulsory jurisdiction or the consumer credit jurisdiction. It covers consumer complaints about certain of these businesses’ financial activities, for example National Savings & Investments.

The FSA has statutory oversight of The Financial Ombudsman Service and appoints its Chairman and directors, but the FOS is operationally independent. This has allowed it to take on wider jurisdictions that cover businesses which are not FSA-regulated.

The Financial Ombudsman Service decisions, if accepted by the complainant, are binding on respondent businesses and it can make awards of up to £100,000. The service is free to consumers. The Financial Ombudsman service is funded by the financial institutions which it administers complaints against. Complaints can be administered providing the complaints process with the financial institution has been followed

 

Edited February 23, 2009 by cab1ne
update

[cab1ne]

if an agreement is missing any of

THE PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1) (0) AND 127(3) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

to be precise the Dates of repayments; thus relieving the agreement of any forcibility.

 

"now the bit"

the creditor has informed me that (via phone call today at 09.03am)) the agreement can be forced by them (in his words) we dont need no stupid court orders or a judge to do it niether, "shocked was i"

and i'll tell you why Mr Cab1ne, "Whooooooo Mr" if you would care to look at the agreement and check the dates of signatures then tell me what you see, "OK" Mr Creditor the dates show you signed the Agreement on the 7th of August 2006. There you go then Mr Cab1ne its in black and white and you have signed to agree to that aswell:confused: "i have signed to agree to what" the agreement clearly shows that your dates of payment are on the 7th of every month and every one month there after till the agreement is paid up. "shocked again" i just said could you correspond in writing please as also stated in my letter. thankyou, goodbye

 

Errrrrrr!!! "panic":confused: can they really do that

__________________

"Sittin Tight"