general debate cleared from debt template forum

[cosmiccat]

Have just found this template - has anyone actually succeeded with this? Owe quite a lot to NW, of which about £500 is charges. Haven't gone through the reclaiming process yet, as claims appear to be on hold, but can you do this instead? I've been on benefits since 2000, and the charges have accrued since about 2006. Any advice appreciated! Thanks, and how great to talk to people in the same boat!

[rory32]

cosmiccat you really need to start your own thread on your situation. If you don't know how to do that have a read here

[topCatDC]

Hi Cosmiccat

my daughter is currently claiming these charges after getting in touch with the financial ombudsman service

they said she can claim the charges back

the fos send a letter to the banks and give the banks 8 weeks to rectify the problem

they agreed the charges were causing sever hardship

she has another week to wait

the banks will try and say your claim is waiting for the oft ruling about unfair charges (allegedly) but it has nothing to do with this .

if you want

i will keep you and any one else

informed

PS if you are on benefits have you contacted your energy supplier and asked about a discount on your bills (these are not restricted only to the elderly )

[johndeevoy]

Does the term "banks" here include credit card providers which are also banks e.g. Barclaycard, Halifax, MBNA etc. I don't have any bank accounts with these people but I have suffered lots of credit card charges and I have been on benefits for last 2 years.

[topCatDC]

Hi

I am not sure about the credit cards you could contact the financial ombudsman service and they would keep you right. when you get an answer could you post it on here please

good luck

TC

[johndeevoy]

Does anyone have a link to a thread with some further details of the legislation? Which section outlines the argument we would be relying on?

[Trusty]

I sent your letter to Barclays and got the following reply:-

 

"With regard to the Social Security Administration Act 1992, this legislation has regrettably been commonly misinterpreted. Where the law refers to a "charge" this is meant as "to assign an asset" rather than "to incur a fee". The true meaning of this section therefore is that benefits cannot be used as security or assigned to a third party. This does not mean we cannot charge fees in respect of the products and services we offer you as your banker."

 

It then continues with the standard OFT and legal proceedings waffle about unfair charges.

 

Any ideas?

[johndeevoy]

TBH I think there may be some truth in what they say. Upon reading the legislation, it became apparant that the defination of charge (as per the legislation) would have to be made clear. Certainly, it cannot mean any "charge" in respect of charges made for provision of goods and services. If this was the case, you could just walk into a shop, lift goods and when "charged" at the till you could respond "Sorry, but Im on benefits and you are forbidden by the SSA1992 to make any charges against my benefits".

 

The SSA certainly does not state that "banks can not take charges from benefits a person needs to live on" as per the original posters letter.

[rory32]

Does the term "banks" here include credit card providers

No. The test case is dealing with bank account charges. Credit card charges can continue to be reclaimed.

I sent your letter to Barclays and got the following reply:-

 

"With regard to the Social Security Administration Act 1992, this legislation has regrettably been commonly misinterpreted. Where the law refers to a "charge" this is meant as "to assign an asset" rather than "to incur a fee". The true meaning of this section therefore is that benefits cannot be used as security or assigned to a third party. This does not mean we cannot charge fees in respect of the products and services we offer you as your banker."

 

It then continues with the standard OFT and legal proceedings waffle about unfair charges.

 

Any ideas?

In England/Wales they are correct. Charge is by form of assignment to a third party. However you can still reclaim the charges under hardship.

[johndeevoy]

Credit card charges can continue to be reclaimed.

 

On what basis? The CCA agreement states that they can make charges? There is a ton of info on her about reclaiming bank charges but very little about reclaiming credit card charges.

[johndeevoy]

However you can still reclaim the charges under hardship.

 

Is there a template letter for this? What if they refuse? I already told my creditors that I had been ill and not working for 2 years. Out of 6 creditors 2 continued to charge interest and fees.

 

How can I go about reclaiming these credit card charges?

[rory32]

On what basis? The CCA agreement states that they can make charges?

Which doesn't mean they are lawful. If the credit card charge is a penalty (as they clearly are) you can reclaim them as they are not part of the test case http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/122528-credit-card-charges-poc.html

 

Is there a template letter for this? What if they refuse?

You only need to use hardship for bank charges (template letter here ). If the bank ignore your case of hardship you can then go to the FOS who will consider your claim.

[KittyClaws858]

Hi there, first poster here,

 

does bank charges mean if you get charged for going over your overdraft? I am on benefits and have been for years. I have an £1800 overdraft with RBS which sometimes goes over and i end up getting charged taking me even further over....because i need to wait for benefits to get paid in before i can pay it then it really leaves me in a pickle..ie, no money etc. its a nightmare.

 

sometimes they will refund the odd charge if i plead hard enough or the money is coming in next day etc. Can i make a claim under the benefits thing?? I had money paid into the bank from the Student Loans Company and Students Awards Agency Scotland for a couple of years but i was still on benefits.

 

Any help appreciated.

[rory32]

does bank charges mean if you get charged for going over your overdraft?

Yes.

Can i make a claim under the benefits thing??

You can certainly try. Even if they are not willing to refund the charges you can then ask the FOS to consider your case under the hardship criteria.

[KittyClaws858]

hi thanks. the charges they have put on the account take a month to go on and sometimes they have taken me over...its nightmare. my branch have been ok about charges to be honest but not all the way. I have two small children and clearly on benefits. its hard enough to get by without being charged so much for trying to get by, a small charge, yes maybe not 28 pounds etc. now im about to get my degree, RBS should have offered me a student account but stated that i would not be getting anything near 1800 pounds overdraft on a student account. so Ive had to continue to pay up to £24 interest on the overdraft not sure if its every month...

 

as i say, hard enough

[AA99]

Which doesn't mean they are lawful. If the credit card charge is a penalty (as they clearly are) you can reclaim them as they are not part of the test case http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/122528-credit-card-charges-poc.html

 

You only need to use hardship for bank charges (template letter here ). If the bank ignore your case of hardship you can then go to the FOS who will consider your claim.

 

Is there not just a plain template letter which one can attach a summary of charges for CREDIT CARDS only? Why is there only a template letter for Court Action? and only a template letter for Bank Charges?

I need a straight-talking template letter for Credit Card Charges, I am now on benefits and have all my statements showing the charges. A CCA and SAR is pending but I thought if they can refund the charges and interest to the balances outstanding, it will at least reduce the balances owing so we can start to re-negotiate the repayment terms.....

[JOSH_IOU]

Charge is by form of assignment to a third party. However you can still reclaim the charges under hardship.

 

So dose this mean if an account is sold to a debt collector or debt purchaser with meaning in the consumer credit act. We can claim them back using this act?

 

Or would this only apply if they could produce a valid sale of purchase/assignment:)

[AA99]

BUMP please!

[blencathra]

Hi Kitty. I am lead to believe it is illegal to add charges upon charges. Where a charge is made that brings you into a situation where another charge is made because of the first one then it is illegal

[AA99]

Hi Kitty. I am lead to believe it is illegal to add charges upon charges. Where a charge is made that brings you into a situation where another charge is made because of the first one then it is illegal

 

Can you quote an Act/Section/Law to that effect? Am in the same boat as KittyClaws...............:-? Am also looking for help with utility bills that have gone from £38 p.m. to them wanting £115 p.m. "What the law says you need to live on" doesn't seem to equate to these sort of figures! Shall I pass the utility bills on to Income Support?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/gas-electricity-water-utilities/167300-energy-price-hikes-while.html

[ladybird17]

The "charge" referred to in the Social Security Act at S.187 is a charging order or similar. Not bank charges. If you call a plumber out, when he charges you for his services you can't tell him you're not paying because it's your benefit money he'll be taking! Until such time bank charges are definitively deemed as unlawful, they can still charge.

 

Claiming cc charges back is the same as claiming bank charges back.

 

Charges are not illegal - they are allegedly "unlawful"

 

Illegal refers to criminal activity, unlawful to civil activity.

[blencathra]

Hi Kitty I found this information in a book called 150 LETTERS THAT GET RESULTS this is produced by the WHICH consumer guides and it says.

 

If your current account goes into the red purely because of the charges that have been taken from it, you should not incur a second lot of charges. The Para is headed CHARGES ON CHARGES

 

Although it does say a current account I have used this in other forms to have charges refunded.

 

Remember. You are supposed to be given 14 days notice of any proposed charges. Failure to do so , could be against the banking code of practice.

 

Another point worth consideration is that the financial industry uses so much bluff against its customers to hope they are ignorant to the way they work. Using counter bluff isn't a bad thing as most of them have no idea about the law.

 

Best of luck Dave