Help With HSBC Default Notice Please

[out_of_the_red]

Hi all,

 

I recently sent my CCA request to HSBC for my Harvey Nichols account card and they responded with the letter shown below

 

 

With help from fedup74 I used this template to reply

 

Dear Sirs,

RE Account NO XXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2008 the contents of which are noted.

In your letter you make reference to requiring my signed authorisation /specimen signature** before you comply. I draw your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that i supply you a copy of my signature before you comply with my S77/78** request.

If it is for Data Protection purposes then i can happily supply you with documentation to substantiate my identity to you.

However please note that to date you have happily sent statements and correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information to my address. I have to ask if you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why has it taken so long to raise this?

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 77/78** was made on xx/xx/2008 and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on xx/xx/2008. I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity.

I look forward to receiving the documentation requested

Yours faithfully

Print dont Sign

 

They received this on the 20th and replied immediately with the letter below which I received today

 

 

So my question is, where do I go from here?

 

Their letter also makes it sound like they aren't accepting the first request at all and the CCA request 12+2 days will start again from receipt of a signed CCA request.

 

I also received a letter from Creation Finincial who run the Selfridges account card refusing to provide me with a copy of my CCA for this card without a signed request.

 

 

TIA!

[42man]

For the SAR....sign a letter and put crosses through it so it can't be 'lifted'....as for HSBC, tell them that once they have located the agreement to send it to your local branch so you can pick it up. OR make a CPR 31.16 request !!!! - have a read - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/176937-pearlypinks-mint.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[out_of_the_red]

I naively thought this would be simple....it feels like they are giving me the runaround just because they can!!

 

What is the benefit to asking them to send it to a branch rather than by post?

[BankFodder]

I've seen lots of threads on this forum wher it has been suggested that people might abuse your signature and therefore you shdouldn't sign anything.

 

The truth is that I expect that this scarcely has ever happened - especially with the kind of organisation that you are dealing with here.

 

I expect that they have copies of your signature on file and if they wanted to go to that kind of trouble then they would go straight ahead and do it.

 

I fully expect that the industry is greedy and dishonest but I don't expect that your signatire would be misused in these circumstances.

 

Sign the letter. If you want, use a slighlt different flourish in one or two of the letters.

You'll keep a copy of course - won't you?

If you ever suspect that they have used this signature on some other document, you will be able to show a judge very easliy that your signature was forged.

How very delicious to discover a scandal like that. You would also be able to show it to the police.

Go ahead, sign the thing and give your attention to the CCA which at the end of the day they may not be able to send you.

 

Mind you, 42man's advice is very good and certainly there should be no objection to you collecting it at the branch

[out_of_the_red]

Thank you.

 

Does resubmitting the CCA request now mean the 12+2 days starts again?

[out_of_the_red]

Hi,

 

Can anyone advise if resubmitting the signed CCA request now means the 12+2 days starts again?

[out_of_the_red]

Hi all,

 

Well I sent off my CCA requests to Selfridges (Creation Financial), Harvey Nichols (HSBC) and MBNA.

 

After Selfridges and HN wrote to me requesting signed requests, which I sent, I received a copy of my signed CCA from Selfridges but nothing since from HN and no response whatsoever from MBNA.

 

So where do I go from here? Can I stop paying HN and MBNA as they have not responded? Is there a further letter I should send to start negotiations for a reduced debt?

 

Also with the signed CCA from Selfridges is it possible it's still unenforceable? Should I scan it and post it on here?

 

And lastly should I be refraining from using these cards any further?

 

TIA!! Hope you are all keeping warm!

[Taz11]

Firstly, I'm no expert but learning a considerable amount on here. I think most will agree you shouldn't have signed the requests from them. People on here have stated that they have been known to "lift" signatures. Funny that they have now sent you a "signed" request. I'm not saying they have lifted it whatsoever but it is feasible. Others will probably suggest the same.

 

They are happy to send statement to your address, and don't require a signature for these, so why require a signature, they already know your identity by them sending you statements.

 

 

Unless of course you printed your signature or made it impossible to copy, ignore my above comments..........lol

 

Taz11

[out_of_the_red]

I put crosses over the top of my signature, they both refused to send the CCA's without a signed request so my hand was forced.

[Taz11]

I put crosses over the top of my signature,

 

good, my comments are to be ignored then...lol

 

I'm sure others will advise on the legality of sending you a cca without the creditor requiring a signature, but if you have crossed it, I would assume they would have a responsibility to send it.

 

I requested mine from MBNA, without a signature, and only received anything after the 12+2 days when I sent them an account in dispute letter, and stopped paying. This seemed to kick them into gear a bit...lol

 

good luck

 

Taz11

[out_of_the_red]

And was your MBNA one enforceable? Sounds like I need to send them the account in dispute letter

[Joijo]

I sent CCA to Lowells & Ruthbridge, Lowells only came back to me when i sent the account in dispute letter. Still waiting to hear anything from Ruthbridge.

 

As long as you have waited the 12+2 working days and heard nothing from them, send the account in dispute letters recorded delivery and relax

[out_of_the_red]

Ok will get onto that, thank you!

[out_of_the_red]

Hi all,

 

I've still had no response from MBNA or HSBC (re: Harvey Nichols store card) regarding my CCA requests......they had till the 31st January to respond.

 

Where do I go from here? So far I am not in arrears in payments to either but I'm planning on not making the minimum payment to MBNA this month as they have not responded and if I understand correctly this means I am now able to dispute the debt.

 

I would like to negotiate the debt down, where do I start?

 

TIA!!

[lickthewallfatboy]

if they can't produce an agrrement,you won't have to negotiate anything,as the total "debt" will be inenforceable

[out_of_the_red]

The only thing is I really don't want to stuff up my credit rating/history as I'm hoping to buy a house this year, I'd rather negotiate the debt down with a one-off payment. How do I start that?

[out_of_the_red]

Could anyone offer some advice as to what letter I write to offer a one-off payment to clear the debt at a reduced amount?

[out_of_the_red]

Can anyone help me on this? I would really like to send letters stating that they have now failed to send the CCA's. I'm just trying to create a paper trail and keep on top of these people so that I can force them into negotiation

[the_shadow]

Firstly... they are in breach of the CCA by not responding so officially they should be able to process your information (credit reference agencies) but as the governing bodies are as toothless as a 90year old granny not much hope of that...

 

So if you dont want the risk of your credit file being affected keep paying the minimum payments until you buy/mortgage especially in the current prime mortgage lending only market.

 

Send of a Subject Access Request, templates are on here and it costs £10, this will give you a complete set of statements, if there are any charges in there or PPI, perhaps a claim for either or both of these will work to reduce the debt prior to you getting a mortgage

 

*Edit* This will also show the total amount borrowed / paid back / interest / charges, could help you gauge how much of a full and final offer you think they'll accept!

PmW

 

If you search other threads of the same ilk (xxxx vs bank/credit card firm) you'll find copies of letters to send which will just need slight tinkering to your circumstances.

[out_of_the_red]

There are no charges on the accounts I could claim as I have always kept up the minimum payments.

 

I want to write to them stating that as they have not sent the CCA they are now in breach. This will hopefully be a starting point for negotiating the debt down to then pay off in full and clear it once and for all

 

Is there a letter that does any of this?

[the_shadow]

There are no charges on the accounts I could claim as I have always kept up the minimum payments.

 

I want to write to them stating that as they have not sent the CCA they are now in breach. This will hopefully be a starting point for negotiating the debt down to then pay off in full and clear it once and for all

 

Is there a letter that does any of this?

 

:eek:

 

I think you need to read thru some of the threads here to get an idea of how unreasonable these firms are.....

 

You complain.. they file under b for Bothered! f&f offers normally take place with the debt recovery agencies who pay only 10%-15% of the total debt and can make a profit.

 

Like I say if you want a letter offering F&F offers do a search for it and you'll find a thread with a template-ish letter to send.

[out_of_the_red]

Are you sure that is correct? fedup74 responded to one of my previous threads and stated that MBNA had offered them a reduced balance of £3k on a £8.5k debt......I was hoping to negotiate a similar arrangement

[the_shadow]

Are you sure that is correct? fedup74 responded to one of my previous threads and stated that MBNA had offered them a reduced balance of £3k on a £8.5k debt......I was hoping to negotiate a similar arrangement

 

I did put in the caveat of "normal":)

[fedup74]

Hi out of the red. You could send them this letter to see if it produces anything- an agreement or an admission that they don't have one. If they are having difficulty in finding your agreement it will give you more bargaining powers if you did want to offer a F&F, although if there is no agreement you are under no obligation to offer them anything. I understand you don't want anything to affect your credit rating but MBNA do not play by the rules anyway:rolleyes: Just edit the letter to suit:)

 

 

In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letters of xx/xx/xx and xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

[out_of_the_red]

Thank you sooooooooo much, this is exactly what I was after!