Joe public bunch of moaners

[crem]

First you would have to prove that I knew the sign was missing before I issued the ticket when all i have to do is say i forgot to look sorry.

 

As the signage/lines should be checked by the CEO to ensure they are valid (otherwise how can you expect the driver to have known?) then shouldn't your statement of "sorry I forgot to look" read as " sorry I failed to do my job correctly which has brought great inconvenience to an innocent driver but we nearly got away with milking some more money out of the car cash cow. Worth a punt guv"

[sillygirl1]

I seem to recall pointing out to the mods that this was a possible troll... seems I am right.

 

How would he explain a warden ticketing a blood donor van whilst parked outside a local office block and people inside were giving blood.... the excuse then was the road was 'council property' and they didn't have the appropriate permission from the council - this was in the national press a few years back.

 

I don't drive so I can't make any comments on parking other than what has happened to members of my own family.

[Al27]

Nobody like paying fines. If you can get out of it, then fair enough. You're an idiot if you have the opportunity to not pay and turn it down.

 

Of course, it's not a magic wand. It can take a lot of time, preparation and research into the technicalties of the subject, all of which is a darn sight more effort that following rules in the first place.

 

But, if you can avoid paying why shouldn't you? People aren't charity cases.

[Steve__M]

I think the actions of this alleged CEO show the need for the scrutiny sites such as this one gives to the local authorities.

 

Let's hope the owner of the car whose tyres he wanted to slash did not accidentally knock their Blue Badge off the dashboard when retrieving their walking sticks.

[electron99]

Any damage to signs and lines we are required to report to the local authority so that they can be repaired as quickly as possible so yes the council have an legal obligation to ensure that the signs and lines are correct.

 

But you have failed to answer the question if the TP for a SYL is missing would you park on the SYL knowing fine rightly that you cant?

 

Let us consider other road signs.Suppose vandals stole 60mph speed limit signs.Are you saying that the motorist should slow down when entering this area because,in spite of lack of signs, he should have known he was in a 60mph area?

[crem]

 

But you have failed to answer the question if the TP for a SYL is missing would you park on the SYL knowing fine rightly that you cant?

 

If the tiime plate is missing how is the driver supposed to know when/when not it is legal to park?

[Michael Browne]

Any damage to signs and lines we are required to report to the local authority so that they can be repaired as quickly as possible so yes the council have an legal obligation to ensure that the signs and lines are correct.

 

The trouble is councils fail to do anything about it, even when they know there is non-compliance

 

I live in a CPZ, where there is a single bay, which since the inception of the CPZ 6 years ago, did not have a post or sign. The CEOs knew the bay was non-compliant and refused to issue tickets for that bay. The pole and sign were finally installed last November following protracted correspondence and telephone calls over a 9 month period, during most of which the council refused to accept there was anything wrong. It was only when I threatened to go public that there was a flurry of phone calls and the post and sign were installed within a week.

[the_freedom_trail]

Hi rff04,

Are you one of these people that believe that everything the Government does is right and that we should not question? I feel for you, you are probably paid a modest income to deal with often aggressive people all so that your local government can earn vast sums of money - you'd get twice as much being a bouncer at a night club. If my friends on this site can get off a parking tax charge (because that's what they are really) on a technicality then fair play to them. Man, don't be sure naive!

TFT

[the_freedom_trail]

You better believe it would have it slapped on your window within thirty seconds and yes it would be quashed but you know what I wouldnt care cause it would cause you alot of hassle and just because its not enforceable does not make it morally right for you to do it. And if you did park in it I hope a disgruntled member of the general public lets all you tyres down

 

BTW, here we have a so called local authority representative advocating criminal behaviour.

[patdavies]

Maybe the point is that signs should be done away with and the lines on the road are all the legal requirements that are needed. How about that?

 

And to pass your test you need to know what the road markings mean.

 

 

Sorry, but utter nonsense.

 

A SYL means that parking is restricted a ceertain times; the signs provide the required detail of the these times.

 

It would be impossible to do away with signs on SYL for just that reason - nobody could know when the lines were in effect.

[patdavies]

But you have failed to answer the question if the TP for a SYL is missing would you park on the SYL knowing fine rightly that you cant?

 

I would park there knowing fine rightly that I can - as the restriction cannot be enforced without the sign.

[Al27]

There's been a lot of talk about 'morals'. This is just parking your car - despite what the authorities would have us believe, meltdown wouldn't happen if the vast majority of lines were removed.

 

Italians are great at parking all over the shop. They should be the most evil nation on earth if we brought morals into it!

[green_and_mean]

I would love to know what law would result in a criminal conviction for issuing a PCN on a bay without a timeplate? Maybe someone could enlighten me?

I would just like to point out a Blue Badge Bay along with some other bays can be enforced without a timeplate depending on its location so don't get to carried away trying to get one over on your local CEO.

[kiptower]

not a matter of a TIME PLATE on the pole ( and in some cases on a wall opposit the bay ) however some do have, where there are other timed restrictions present, common sign is "DISABLED BADGE HOLDERS ONLY" ( or similar )

 

however to issue against a bay THAT DOES NOT HAVE a TMO is UNLAWFULL eg, a courtersy bay, however the Police etc may issue for obstruction in some circumstances on one of these bays,

Edited February 2, 2009 by kiptower

[Spunkymonkey]

Its not an illegal fine its and unenforceable fine. What criminal act have i committed? Am sure I could find a technicality that would let me get away with it

 

(my bold)

 

Fraud under S2 of the Fraud Act 2006:

 

 

2 Fraud by false representation

 

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

 

 

(2) A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading, and

(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

 

 

(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a) the person making the representation, or

(b) any other person.

 

 

(4) A representation may be express or implied.

 

 

(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

(my bold again)

 

So if you issue a PCN (a representation) that a driver has broken a restriction (a fact or point of law), when you know or believe that they haven't (because you know the restriction is currently invalid) with the intention of them paying, or potentially paying, a fine (they suffer loss or are exposed to a risk of loss) then you're committing fraud.

 

No technicalities on that - it's one of the clearest bits of statute law around. If it ever happens, btw, do pop in and we'll see what we can come up with to get you off

[noomill060]

[pt2537]

then of course there is the issue of Misconduct (malfeasance ) in a public office to add to the mix

[noomill060]

Not looking good, is it, troll?

[68904]

I recon that this is a comic strip post, and it makes me yawn after reading all this twaddle from some comedian that winding you all up.

Lets now move on and as it says in the zoo's;

Dont feed the animals.

After readin all this am off into me garden to av a bit of hibernation as its better than been bored to death.

Tha noz worra mean?

[noomill060]

CAG is about educating people who are unaware of their rights and to help people avoid being crushed by establishment.

 

Its not intended to entertain.

 

If the info in this thread is read, understood and acted upon by just one person, it will have served a useful purpose (and backfired on the troll who started it)

[lamma]

exactly.

[pipsqueaker]

Funny how these people profess to be 'holier than thou' in the first few posts.

Then gradually their true personality comes to the fore.

It is my opinion that this person LOVES giving out tickets without any thought for the moral rights or wrongs.

[adamna]

None.........................Any PCN i have issued is 100% and here is the reason why. I use my common sense even though I am not meant to.

 

But at my job at times is nothing but utter hell, with people verbally and physically abusing me. I dont earn much more than the min wage and contrary to popular belief I dont earn commission on PCNs issued. So wether I issue 0 PCN or 100 PCN in a day I still get the sames wages at the end of the week....

 

People think that they have the right to park their car anywhere they please.

 

You seem to know a lot about 'what people think'. Somehow I doubt it, otherwise you might have cottoned on to why you are quite so despised.

 

You contradict yourself all over the place, and who told you not to use your 'common sense' - someone that knew you had a bypass?

 

You don't get the same wages if you do lots of overtime as a reward for issuing lots of tickets, (shame they stopped the incentives eh?) but better still go get a proper job that serves a useful purpose instead of taking out your hatred and prejudice on the rest of us.

 

Thanks for the insight though, if you're a good 'un imagine what the bad 'uns are like.

[markie76]

rtt04 - with greatest respect, you're an idiot.

 

I agree with you, motorists who blatantly take the pi** and park in disabled bays or on dy lines because it suits them, to nip into a shop or use a cash machine are doing so through their own shelfishness and taking a risk for which they should accept the consequences.

 

Of course the flipside is Local Authorities who want to enforce parking regulations do so under the premise they accept and implement all the rules and legislation laid down by the government to do so.

 

Of course if Joe public was happy to just hand over £30-£120 a time to the council we wouldn't need any formal rules and regulations on what lines need to be painted in which shape and where and also which signs need to be displayed where and what they need to say. (we also wouldn't need CEO's)

 

Of course this ISN'T going to happen is it?

 

So the only method to achieve this is for councils to paint road markings, erect signs and provide parking facilities in line with all relevant rules and regulations. Once the council has fulfilled its duty to be compliant with all the necessarily rules then Joe public must also abide by the conditions of using the parking facilities and when a contravention occurs, accept the consequences.

 

So if a council can't be bothered to paint a line or erect a sign IN LINE with regulations why shouldn't Joe public complain???????

 

If the reason you parked where you did was because of a missing sign or unclear road markings and rff04 came along and gave you a PCN you wouldn't bend over backwards and hand over £60 - why should you, as you've just been (what Joe public would call), shafted)

 

I was recently issued a box junction PCN and I thought ok fair enough, UNTIL I measured the road markings and guesswhat - they were over twice the permitted size meaning all the PCN's issued there were done so illegally as motorists not actually blocking the junction were getting penalties. SURPRISE SURPRISE - the local authority didn't turn up at appeal to argue their case as losing would mean having to rectify the road markings (so they are complaint) and losing their cash cow.

 

I hope Joe public continues to stand their ground and moans about every SMALLEST valid point when it comes to PCN's.

 

APPEAL EVERY PCN UNTIL COUNCILS ABIDE BY THE RULES - the motorist doesn't buy a car in order to get shafted each time they take it off their driveway.

[The Rookie]

ffo4

You say all your PCN's have been valid, which I guess means you work for the only council in the land which has not had fatal errors on its (pre-printed, nothing to do with the CEO) paperwork, so that will be.....um....it'll come to me....um......nope, can't think of ONE.

 

Simon