Glenn vs Co-OP

[Glenn UK]

I sent of my prelim today for charges from 1997 up until the account closed, not a huge amount but by the time you add CI on it comes to a reasonale penny.

 

Glenn

[richwhit1]

Hi Glenn,

 

Can I just check the C.I rate you're using - I'm using 18.9% is this correct??

 

richwhit

[Glenn UK]

Rich

 

you need to go to the website and check the interest rates for the card you have, there are comparison boxes/pages which give the details for each card type.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[richwhit1]

Hi Glenn,

 

Hope you are well, your claims are going through as you would expect and your not experiencing too many sleepless nights with the little fella!! (By the way - just to make you feel better - my son is 5 and he still wants to get in our bed every night - bloody good contraceptive!!)

 

I'm again after your esteemed advice with regards my claim with MBNA (i know I'm posting on your Co-Op thread and it is only because I know MBNA are looking at the site!).

 

Having written to MBNA to ascertain that they definitely do not hold data beyond 6 years they did to be fair come back to me yesterday advsing this was not the case, confirming their methods of destruction and confirming that no third parties hold data also (bar Experian who only hold initial Application forms). I feel they have told me all that I can and that I have to accept that I will not be able to obtain any data held beyond 6 years.

 

Therefore I now know that I can only obtain 6 years worth of statements which I now need to decide what course of action to take and this is where I would appreciate your advice as to perhaps what you would do from here on in.

 

Charges for the last 6 years which I have statements for total £753 and MBNA have so far refunded these charges (bar one for £20) with an initial offer of £320 and a further offer of £413. If you were in my shoes which of the following options would you recommend:-

 

1. Having received all charges take no further action.

2. Continue my claim for the Contractual Interest element only which I equate to circa £1350.

3. I think I know your answer to this one but I ask anyway!! - claim for estimated charges for the period that MBNA could not provide statements for and add contractual interest.

 

As MBNA have paid all of the charges they have taken so far should I continue my claim as it will only be for either a) just Contractual Interest or b) Estimated charges prior from 1997 - 2000 plus Contractual Interest

either of which I'm concerned that should it get to court dtage will not look favourably on myself.

 

I'd really appreciate your thoughts if you do not mind.

 

Thanks a million in advance

 

Richwhit

[Glenn UK]

Rich

 

It seems to me that if you cannot get any further info and are satisfeid that you have gone as far as you can then i would recommend that you close your claim against them.

 

With the following caveats.

 

1. Did you file your claim at court? if so I presume that you included CI and Sec 69 interest?

 

2.If so then i would press for contractual interest with the hope of getting the 8%. If you get more then you will have done very well.

 

3. If they have paid some interest i.e. the 8% then i would drop the claim

 

4. Re estimated claims i cannot see the wisdom in this type of claim ultimately they only have to say prove your loss, the court will agree with them and your claim is sunk. If they dont they must be mad bvecause thats what i would do.

 

Im not sure this is what you want to hear but i think you have an idea this is what i would say.

 

Hope that helps, if you want to discuss anyhitng else or go over any issues please feel free to pm me or email me [email protected]

[richwhit1]

Hi Glenn,

 

Many thanks for the reply and I assure you that I never mind your thoughts whether they are what I want to hear or not as I know in the long run it will save me a lot of time and worry!!.

 

I agree with your thoughts re estimated charges but just wanted to check your view hadn't changed with regards to this - thanks.

 

My predicament is whether I pursue my claim which is in essence is now just for interest. Just to let you know MBNA have so far paid the charges ONLY that I am claiming against them (OK I'm claiming £753 and they have paid in 2 instaments £733).

 

However they have paid this without me even sending them a Prelim letter !!! After my original SAR they offered £320 then after I sent them a letter accepting this as a partial refund they offered a further 'goodwill' of £413 (£20 less than I am claiming on charges). So I do not know whether to proceed with prelim, lba, etc for the C.I. only which is approx £1350. Your thoughts as ever v.appreciated.

 

rich

[Glenn UK]

Rich

 

Its unfortunate but since you havent even sent them a prelim as of yet then ithink they have effectivley stymied your claim for any interest.

 

I have taken a second view although i didnt give them the details of this post/thread and they have given me the same view, it was Hagen UK by the way one of the mods who's view i trust.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[richwhit1]

Thanks again Glenn (and Hagen UK) for your advices / thoughts.

 

I'm therefore thinking that if a lender agrees to pay all charges being claimed (without any interest and before Prelim being sent) then the claim should be seen as being settled?? i guess I was perhaps being greedy in thinking that I would always be able to claim C.I. no matter what.

 

(((Big bracket in that this claim is for my wife - I last month claimed back charges £600 approx and after 1 phone call got C.I adding an extra £300 - am thinking they knew just to agree on this account to all charges)))

 

If you were I would you not proceed further in basically claiming just for C.I. interest?? - thnk I know the answer anyway!!!

 

rich

[Glenn UK]

I guess the choise is yours i wuldnt go to court on it, i might push it further just to see how far i oculd get.

 

I cannot sya this is a view that owul dbe shared by others but then it seems to me that these lcaims have as much to do with bluff as the law so its often a matter of who bluffs best.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[JonCris]

rich if they only refund the penalty charges without interest then they have not settled.

 

When they added unlawful charges they also added unauthorised borrowing interest which adds even further to their unlawful charges & which you are entitled to reclaim on top of the charges

[Glenn UK]

Thats a fair point Jon, I had presumed they had repaid charges and any interest debited, however if they havent then one presumes that Rich would need to submit a claim for the interest and ight as well add in the single charge too.

 

You could ask for interest on the interest as well which would be a bonus.

 

Rich sorry if i missed that bit.

 

glenn

[Glenn UK]

Small update had a fun phone call with Viv Calderbank, shes seems nice and had a laugh so life isn't all bad.

 

However, she was not aware of Sec 32 limitations act apparently, so gave her some pointers!!! I'm sure she was pulling my leg but anyway as a result gonna send this letter

 

Dear Ms Calderbank

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Claim No 7BQ00933

 

I thank you for your letter dated 18th April 2007. I have also received letters from your client dated 28th February, 22nd March and 23rd April 2007.

I have the following observations to make in response to these various letters.

Co-op 28/02/07 – I responded to the offer dated 4th March declining the offer of settlement unless they acknowledged that the payment was a part payment against the whole claim as set out in the particulars of claim. Since your client failed to respond the cheque was returned on the 9th April and delivered on the 12th April 2007.

Co-op 22/03/07 – You client mistakenly referred to the Limitations Act on the basis of Section 5. As you know my claim is in part based on claiming relief by virtue of Sec 32.1.a, b and c of the Limitations Act. Your client is under a further misapprehension that this claim is bought by virtue of the Oft statements on the unfairness of their charges. This claim is bought by virtue of common law and various pieces of case law. The primary consideration is that the charges do not represent your clients liquidated losses and are not a genuine pre-estimate of such losses. Therefore the charges are unlawful and any interest charged upon those unlawful charges is also unlawful.

PW Kerns 10/04/07 – We spoke subsequently and I can confirm my position with respect to your clients position in respect of my claim.

Co-op 23/04/07 – You client repeats their mistaken reliance on Section 5 of the Limitations Act and includes an offer to refund the court fees plus interest.

In response to this last letter I make the following observations.

• The claim as set out in the particulars of claim is for the charges for the whole of the account history, an estimate of the interest paid as a result of those charges and interest charged by me upon your unlawful use of my money since the unlawful removal of said monies from my account.
  
• In addition to the items mentioned in 1, above, your client is now liable for my court fees and costs. I think you will find the CPR supports this view pre allocation.
  
• I will accept the cheque sent by your Client as a partial settlement only and require confirmation from yourselves that this is acceptable to your Client. I require confirmation that this is acceptable to your Client within seven days. Should I receive no response I will return the cheque to them.
  
• I will then pursue the balance of the Claim through the County Courts.
  
• I should point out that the POC includes a term requesting a judgement from the court that the terms of the contract leading to the application of the charges is unenforceable.

Finally I would point out that your Client has elected to defend the claim in full. If they wish to make payments on account that is fine, but unless they wish to admit the unlawfulness of those charges to which they wish to assign those monies then they have no right to assign them to any particular charge. I would therefore apply them to the earliest charges and interest arising as an act of good faith. This would of course reduce your Clients outstanding liability and would reduce the balance owing.

I have attached a revised schedule of charges bearing in mind that the outstanding balance is increasing daily due to the addition of interest payable.

I have also included a schedule of costs for payment if your client wishes to settle prior to allocation.

 

I look forward to receiving your Clients cheque in respect of the outstanding balance by return.

Yours Sincerely

GlennUK

CC. Basildon County Court

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Hi Glenn few alterations in red you may wish to consider

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Claim No 7BQ00933

 

 

I thank you for your letter dated 18th April 2007. I have also received letters from your client dated 28th February, 22nd March and 23rd April 2007.

 

I have the following observations to make in response to these various letters.

 

Co-op 28/02/07 – I responded to the offer dated 4th March declining the offer of settlement unless they acknowledged that the payment was a part payment against the whole claim as set out in the particulars of claim. Since your client failed to respond the cheque was returned on the 9th April and delivered on the 12th April 2007.

 

Co-op 22/03/07 – You client mistakenly referred to the Limitations Act on the basis of Section 5. As you know my claim is in part based on claiming relief by virtue of Sec 32.1.a, b and c of the Limitations Act. Your client is under a further misapprehension that this claim is bought by virtue of the OFT statements on the unfairness of their charges. This claim is bought by virtue of common law which is supported by considerable case law. The primary consideration is that the charges do not represent your clients liquidated losses and are not a genuine pre-estimate of such losses. As has been stated publicly by various lenders spokespersons the penalty charges plus interest are used to indemnify other users of your clients services against cost and are therefore unlawful.

PW Kerns 10/04/07 – We spoke subsequently and I can confirm my position with respect to your clients position in respect of my claim.

 

Co-op 23/04/07 – You client repeats their mistaken reliance on Section 5 of the Limitations Act and includes an offer to refund the court fees plus interest.

 

 

 

 

 

In response to this last letter I make the following observations.

• The claim as set out in the particulars of claim is for the charges for the whole of the account history, an estimate of the interest paid as a result of those charges and interest charged by me upon your unlawful use of my money since the unlawful removal of said monies from my account.
  
• In addition to the items mentioned in 1 above, your client is now liable for my court fees and costs as per the CPR
  
• I will accept the cheque sent by your Client as a partial settlement only and require confirmation from yourselves within 7 days that this is acceptable to your Client.
  
• Should I receive no response I will return the cheque to them.
  
• I will then pursue the balance of the Claim through the County Courts.
  
• I should point out that the POC includes a term requesting a judgement from the court that the terms of the contract leading to the application of the charges is unenforceable.

Finally I would point out that your Client has elected to defend the claim in full. If they wish to make payments on account that is fine, but unless they wish to admit the unlawfulness of those charges to which they wish to assign those monies then they have no right to assign them to any particular charge. I would therefore, with a mind to costs, apply them to the earliest charges and interest arising. This would of course reduce your Clients outstanding liability and the balance owing.

 

I have attached a revised schedule of charges bearing in mind that the outstanding balance is increasing daily due to the addition of interest payable.

 

I have also included a schedule of costs for payment if your client wishes to settle prior to allocation.

 

I await your advices at your earliest convenience.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

GlennUK

 

CC. Basildon County Court

[Glenn UK]

Dear All

 

Well the Co-op and dear Viv are having fun. 1st i get a letter from the Co-op then i get a latter from Viv, and now i get one from the Co-op.

 

This one is more interesting though. Typically banks have tried to pay the most recent charges and ignore or get the charges older than six years struck out.

 

Following receipt of the previous letter they have settled the two charges older than six years, one fro, August 1997 and another from Jan 1999.

 

The think the claim is settled however, when i remove these charges from my schedule, factor in the cheques i hold (one for costs and one for the older charges) and take account of Court costs and my costs, I end up with a balance owing of £300 odd quid!

 

The Co-operative Bank Plc

P.O. Box 101

1 Balloon Street

Manchester

M60 4EP

 

3rd May 2007

 

Dear Mr.Doherty

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Claim No 7BQ00933

 

 

I thank you for your letter dated 30th April 2007 and note the contents therein.

 

I have the following observations to make in response to these various letters.

 

I seem to be alternately receiving letters and correspondence from yourselves and your Solicitors, it would be best for all concerned that correspondence was received from only one of you since confusion seems to be arising.

 

With respect to the claim, I have the following observations:

 

• The Co-op sent a cheque on 28/02/07 for £75.00 in respect of charges less than six years old. The cheque was returned to the Co-op.
  
• The CO-op sent a cheque on 23/04/07 for £96.58 for court costs and partial settlement of interest.
  
• The Co-op sent a cheque on 30/04/07 for the charges older than six years.

 

I have amended the schedule of costs bearing in mind that you have settled the claim for the charges dated 19 August 1997 and 14 January 1999, and have attached a revised schedule of charges.

 

As of todays date, the outstanding balance is £250.27 of charges and interest owing. Since I still have your cheque in respect of £96.58, I am prepared to settle for £153.69 in respect of the outstanding charges and interest due thereon at the contractual rate.

 

I have also included a schedule of costs for payment if your client wishes to settle prior to allocation. The total costs including court fees and disbursements comes to £154.22.

 

The full total outstanding as of today’s date therefore is £153.69 + £154.22 = £307.91

 

 

I look forward to receiving your cheque in respect of the outstanding balance by return.

 

Should you fail to settle this claim within seven days I will revise the outstanding balance in respect of the interest accrued and any further costs incurred.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

Glenn UK

CC. Basildon County Court

P W Kerns

 

 

[disgruntled2007]

Hi Glenn!

 

Fascinating thread mate, and I'm most impressed at your letter writing abilities!

 

Congratulations on your offspring!

 

I have a question for you! (aren't compliments always loaded!?!)

 

With regard to your non compliance claim I am facing the prospect of a part 8 preliminary hearing against LTSB for non compliance (only received partial disclosure - ie last 6 years, not whole history) on the 15th June, hopefully at Southend! I am cacking myself now as I'd hoped it would be a small claims part 7 thingy and just a formality...

 

I wonder if I may pick your brains regarding court etc and the best way to construct my bundle...

 

If anyone else reads this post - check out my next bit too:::

 

HELP!!!

 

Can anyone who has received pre6yrs paperwork from LTSB on a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) let me know because I am facing them in court on the 15th June in a part 8 hearing for Data Protection Act non compliance of full disclosure!!! Any other info will help my bundle, too!!!

 

Sorry to hijack your thread Glenn!

 

Regards,

 

Mick