Lollipop VS EGG

[lollipop73]

Hello All,

 

 

I have been reading all the help people are getting on this forum-what a great set of people-especially the cheekiness to a DCA thread-it really lightened my mood and made me less scared of the crisis I am in at the moment.

 

I am hoping to get some clarification on the following EGG credit card agreement.

 

 

Can I confirm and ask how to word the account in dispute letter-specifically the sections the agreement may or may not be in breach of the consumer credit act.

 

 

I believe it is unenforceable because it does not state a credit limit and does not include a right to cancel.

 

Also I think it is improperly executed because it does not state credit card agreement but credit agreement.

 

 

If there are any more ways in which it doesn`t comply can you help me and let me know.

 

This is the first account in dispute letter I will be sending and am extremely wary of getting it wrong and am getting calls three or four times a day from them from differing numbers. I can`t believe I`m too scared to answer my own telephone.

 

 

Thankyou in advance guys.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also any thoughts on how best to tackle this.

[lollipop73]

Anyone??-I am going to use Cosalts letter as a template and add the bit about there being no cancellation. Just some assistance ie am I correct to put that in?

Edited January 31, 2009 by lollipop73

[cas93]

hi lollipop,

 

before 2004 I don't think they needed to use credit card agreement, is this agreement you have posted your original or one as a result of S78 request.

If its the original I would cca them and see if they even have a copy, if not it saves you a lot of time and is pretty straight forward putting them into dispute.

 

regards

[lollipop73]

HI Cas,

 

I got it back from a CCA request. I know there is a difference between an improperly executed agreement and an unenforceable one, so I think the term credit agreement rather than credit card agreement only makes it improperly executed.

 

Any thoughts on the lack of the term credit limit and lack of right to cancel?-Am I correct then?

[lollipop73]

Also-just a quick thought, there are a lot of CCAs on here from EGG recently and they are all worded exactly the same.

 

If I were running the company I would definitely know they are unenforceable and played silly beggars with people asking for them. No trouble when I asked for mine. I don`t like it when it looks too good to be true-because it usually is.

 

 

Just makes me wary.

[cas93]

Hi Lollipop

 

if your agreement doesnt say "credit limit" then the prescribed terms are not there. It should have right to cancellation aswell. Cosalts letter is fine.

regards

cas

[militantconsumer]

Your agreement is the same as mine and the others including cosalts as per this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/177463-response-our-egg-cca.html

 

The key thing here is the lack of the prescribed term credit limit:

 

Typical Egg agreement. It is unenforcable becasue it doesn't have the prescreibed terms. It should have a term telling you what your credit limit is. Instead you have an approved limit - whatever that is. That is meaningless and does not comply with teh Consumer Crdit Act 1974 and its associated regulations.

 

As for the lack of right to cancel, I haven't heard that this has an effect on unenforceability:-

 

Enforceability of Credit Agreements

 

1. A properly executed agreement is enforceable

 

2. An agreement that is not properly executed and was signed before 2006 is not enforceable unless it has the debtor's signature and the prescribed terms in the same document.

 

I do not think that right to cancel is a prescribed term.

[lollipop73]

OH was checking the credit act last night and he says it mentions that all copies should have the right to cancel on it or a judge is precluded from enforcing the agreement-maybe he misread it-it is a bit mystifying at first read.

 

I am following the thread myself and sending my account in dispute letter via registered post tomorrow morning.

[cas93]

Hi Lollipop

 

we read the same thing in the c credit act aswell, but it is unenforcible because it says approved limit anyway. Also thanks for the pm i have managed to sort it!

 

cas

[Livis]

Hi Lollipop,

Good luck with sending your letter tomorrow.

I too will send one but i will wait for the 12 + 2 days is up as technically i suppose they could still send me more info in that time.

I've subbed your thread as i'm interested to see how you progress as you're in the same situation as me

[lollipop73]

I`ll post up what I write-trying to put the finishing touches on it at the moment.

 

 

I hope it goes well,

[lollipop73]

Couldn`t log on this morning for some reason,

 

I haven`t yet sent the letter off, I am still not happy with the wording and hoping for the experts to have a quick peek before I make my move.

 

 

So just a couple of particular questions-

 

the part about the limitations now placed on Egg from processing any further data with a CRA-is there somewhere that has the specifics so I can paste that to it?

 

If there are any further suggestions please just tell me about them-anything and everything will help me.

 

 

Pops edited to save confusion

Edited February 2, 2009 by lollipop73

[cas93]

Hi Lollipop

 

your letter looks fine, you could add this though:

 

Please also note that to register information with the credit reference agencies, or to issue a default notice, would also be in breach of Section 13.6 of The Banking Code, which stipulates that you can only register such information if the amount owed is not in dispute.

 

Also I would not specify why they are in breach (the bit about approved limit instead of credit limit) they can get their legal dept to look it up! Why should you do all the work ?

 

hope this is useful

 

 

regards

 

cas

[Livis]

Hi Lolli, well done with your letter, is this the bit you mean?

 

I draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

• You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  
• You must not pass this account to any third party.
  
• You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You must not issue a default notice on this account
  

I saved this bit already in case i need it, which i expect i will later down the line, lol xx

[lollipop73]

You are both just brilliant individuals-I hope you know this, thank you so very much. This site is wonderful-if I am successful I will be donating-I guarantee it.

[militantconsumer]

http://www.bankingcode.org.uk/pdfdocs/PERSONAL_CODE_2008.PDF

 

Page 24

 

13.6 We may give information to credit reference agencies

about the personal debts you owe us if:

• you have fallen behind with your payments;

• the amount owed is not being disputed; and

• you have not made proposals we are satisfied with

for repaying your debt, following our formal demand.

[lollipop73]

edited to avoid confusing myself

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

............................letter under editting.

Edited February 3, 2009 by lollipop73

[militantconsumer]

I think this is a good letter and I hope you don't mind if I use a copy myself?! I do think it's important to explain why it's in dispute (which you have done) because otherwise anybody could just say they dispute the debt without a proper reason.

 

Make sure you send it by special delivery and print off a copy of the signature from The Royal Mail website once it's been signed for. There are a lot of things you are asking them not to do in this letter, and if they "forget" to comply with any of them then they might think they never received your instructions....

[lollipop73]

And big thanks to militantconsumer, you posted at the same time as I did practically.

[lollipop73]

Hang fire for a few hours- I have decided to send it tomorrow morning after I have had another look at the credit act with the intention of including some terms about the lack of a right to cancel an agreement-as it is a "cancellable agreement".

 

I can draft letters quite well-it was my job once, it`s just the logistics of it I am lost with at the moment, which is why this is a great site.

 

PS you can copy this letter at will, I only hope you are aware I am not legally qualified-although I rather suspect after all of this, I may as well be.

[Livis]

Hi Lolli, just read your letter and think it's great.

It sounds really profesional and hopefully shold have the desired effect.

I think i will use your letter too, if that's ok.

Did they send any terms and conditions to you ? As they didnt send any to me and i know that is one of the things they should do.

So i'll just add that into my letter me thinks

[lollipop73]

They sent some of them BUT there is a question mark over a few of them-I`ll find the link and post it later tonight or tomorrow morning for you Livis, other than that I got a load of screencaps of their website which are completely irrelevant as they do not refer to my agreement at all.

 

I want to go for a "cards on the table" effect-I won`t play silly beggars but they had better understand that I won`t tolerate it if they do either. I will make myself fully acquainted with UK law.

 

 

 

 

I don`t particularly care if they trash my credit file ( but they`d better be careful, because I`m watching them now!) -I won`t be borrowing again EVER, but I do expect them to understand they have a duty to abide by the law-I`m sick of hearing them spout it at me after all!!!

Edited February 3, 2009 by lollipop73

[Livis]

Here Here Lolli, you tell em

I don't want to touch credit ever again, if i knew what i do now i'd never have got myself into this sticky mess.

But finding this site has really helped me try to gain control of the situation and not feel so helpless about it all.

I currently pay my debts (Credit cards/loans) through the CCCS but as i never receive any statements etc from the dca's i haven't a clue if the debts are mounting or not.

So my plan is to CCA them all then save the money i would have been paying, thus hopefully buying me some time to save up and be able to offer them a reduced amount as full and final if they do produce valid CCA's

[BEC01]

Lollipop.

Did you receive the termination letter from Egg last year?

 

If you did, I would take them on via that route as well. I'm sure you will be able to do it on your own with help from the many wise people on here.

 

We're using lawyers, but they are happy for us to share information on here - to a certain extent. Once we have a letter completed, I'll pop it on here for everyone. It might take a few weeks, and I might wait to see what response we get, but will keep everyone on here up to speed.

 

If you don't care about your credit file, then you are in a strong position as their threats will mean nothing to you.

 

Remember, they cannot take anything from you.

Especially if you make a reasonable offer.

But, particularly if they have not executed the paperwork properly.

So don't let them ruin your life, they mean nothing, and can do even less.

 

 

Best of luck.

[cas93]

here here to all that bigeddie,

 

been watching that "other" thread for a while, can't find the letter I received for love nor money. If I sar them whats the chances they would send duplicates.

 

nice letter lollipop think I'll be cutting and pasting later

 

regards