Unenforcable CCA - from start to finish

[FireFox1969]

I have read most of the info on CAG regarding CCA's. The advise that many people give is excellent and to see them take the time to assist is amazing.

 

What i am going to do is place on this thread my process on challenging all my CCA's.

 

All can give advise and comments to this in a hope that others can see the full process of all the challenges.

 

Stage one: i signed up to two CRA to get a free copy of my credit file. so that i can see what i have. i found CreditExpert from Experian to be good as it gave the address to all the companies that i have finance with. Callcredit gave the last four digits to any account numbers.

Edited January 29, 2009 by FireFox1969

[finley303]

HI Firefox

i am new to this site and have a Halifax one card and a Mint card do you think i would have any success with these cards

thanks

[FireFox1969]

you will not know unless you request the CCA from them

[FireFox1969]

Stage two: I got a template letter and sent them out to all concerned. I included the Postal Order and recorded the delivery. I then checked on the royalmail site to get the signature and date the letter was signed for and worked my 12 days from that.

 

see images:

 

 

 

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/FireFox1969/img011.jpg

 

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/FireFox1969/img012.jpg

[finley303]

HI Firefox

thanks for that so what you are saying is first to send letters as you describe in stage 2 and take it from there

[FireFox1969]

I got a reply from a DCA (see Letter) they told me where i rung to confirm who had the account, that they had purchased it and that they held all agreements to this account. strange that now they have to go back to the originator. Got my £1 postal order back, but it cost 50p to get it and then i have to send it off the the post office for money back at 27p stamp is it worth it?

 

Letter:

 

Edited January 29, 2009 by FireFox1969

[FireFox1969]

Yes, as i understand it agreements that have been taken out before Apr 2007. send a letter to request for and ORIGINAL COPY of the credit agreement. thay have 12 days to reply +2 for postal if they fail to deliver then you go to next stage which is what i will posting next.

 

Be aware that all of mine are pre Apr 2007 and there may be a slight difference not sure.

 

Also you may get back an application form these are not acceptable Credit agreements.

[FireFox1969]

Now I have another one on the go which is very interesting and complicated so advice can come thick and fast on this.

 

London Scottish have sent me and agreement but comes under the Multiple agreement s18.

 

Here is a copy of the agreement:

 

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/FireFox1969/img014.jpg

 

however, before i got the letter my wife and i agreed to pay £8000 to clear this loan of and the payment had to be made before 31 Jan 2008. they only sent me the agreement after i got the following letter:

 

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/FireFox1969/img015.jpg

 

I tried to force there hand by responding as follows:

London Scottish Finance Ltd

201 Deansgate

Manchester

M3 3NW

Dear Sir

Re: Accn No.

Thank you or your response to my request for a copy of the original credit agreement, which I received on the 22nd Jan 2009.

The documents that you have supplied me do not appear to conform to the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974 in that:

Your credit agreement is not correctly laid out as per s18 ‘Multiple Agreements’. The loan amount which is an unrestricted use credit s11(2)CCA has been combined with both the PPI and lenders admin fees both of which are fixed sum credits as set out in s10(1b)CCA and are restricted use credits s11(1) as I do not have any say over its use. It is in effect only credit for the purchase of PPI and additional fees and falls within the definition. Therefore since this type of agreement falls within s18 CCA, it means that as defined in s18(2) CCA that this document should have been treated as two separate agreements and each agreement must have its own prescribed terms for each part.

Therefore, you have failed to supply an enforceable document, which is correctly executed as to be so; it must conform to the Regulations under s60 CCA1974

 

I am of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this agreement by s127 (3) CCA1974 as it is improperly executed under s61 CCA 74, the consequences of improper execution are set out in s65 CCA 1974 and s65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed agreement. Since this document does not conform to the form and content requirements of s60 CCA, s127 (3) CCA 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this agreement.

 

I have received a list of payments that I have made towards the above account since it was opened in Oct 2004 which come to the total of £ 6,656.98. If this total is deducted from the £ 10,000 cash loan then that only leaves £3,343.02 left to clear the original amount.

 

I believe that due to the nature of the unenforceable agreement I am willing to make the final payment of £ 3,343.02 that with the £6,656.98 will return the £ 10,000 loan advance.

If you could respond to this letter before 31st Jan 2009 as after this date I will exercise my rights under s65 CCA 1974.

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2009 by FireFox1969

[FireFox1969]

Reply that i got back from London Scottish was:

 

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/FireFox1969/img016.jpg

 

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/FireFox1969/img017.jpg

 

I had to read and re-read this letter to work out what they were going on about 'Regulation 2 (7A)'. after sometime it clicked. they mean that they do not have to produce seperate agreements for each term or i laymans terms double paper work. When i phoned them they mentioned some GOODE guy who has looked into the CCA. who the heck is Mr GOODE.

[FireFox1969]

 

I had to read and re-read this letter to work out what they were going on about 'Regulation 2 (7A)'. after sometime it clicked. they mean that they do not have to produce seperate agreements for each term or i laymans terms double paper work. When i phoned them they mentioned some GOODE guy who has looked into the CCA. who the heck is Mr GOODE.

 

I sent another reply:

 

28th Jan 2009

Dear Ms Hyde

Ref: Account Number (the ‘Agreement’)

I am in receipt of your reply to my letter dated 23rd Jan 2009.

1. A loan Agreement was entered into between ourselves and yourselves “London Scottish Bank Plc” on the date Oct 2004. The loan was essentially for £10,000 and included a PPI policy for £2500.00.

 

2. It is my claim, on the basis that the Loan Agreement, is the subject matter of this claim and that herein is regulated by the Act and is irredeemably unenforceable as follows –

 

(a)The Agreement is a multiple Agreement within section 18(1)(a) of the Act.

(b)The parts of the Agreement must be treated as separate Agreements.

© The regulated parts of the Agreement are improperly executed and irredeemably unenforceable.

3. It is averred that the part of the agreement for the provision of Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) is a “restricted use”, “debtor-creditor-supplier” agreement as defined in sections 12(b) and s11(1)(b) of the Act. The remainder of the agreement is for the provision of credit (£10,000) paid to the Claimant for their own use and is an "unrestricted use", "debtor-creditor" agreement within the meaning of sections 11(2) and 13© of the Act..

 

4. The parts of the agreement must be treated as separate Agreements.

5. By Virtue of section 18(2) of the Act the Agreement must be treated as if it were separate Agreements falling into the categories indicated in 3 above. Schedule 4 gives illustrative details as to how the prescribed terms should be displayed.

The deemed separate regulated parts of Agreement are improperly executed and irredeemably unenforceable as the agreement fails to state the prescribed terms in respect of each deemed separate and regulated part (see section 61 (1)(a), 127(3) and regulation 6 and s6, paragraph 2 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) regulations 1983). In support of the above proposition the Claimant will rely upon the reasoning in Ocwen V Coxall {2004} CCLR7 and others.

As per your letter (received 28th Jan 2009), I am glad to see that you agree that this document is a multiple agreement (as per para 2). However in the statement ‘we disagree that, in order to comply with the form and content requirements of the Act, it is necessary to show separate figures where the requirement for each ‘part agreement’ is the same’. Where a term is the same for both bits (e.g. APR, number of payments) they can be shown once. The bits that are different (e.g. repayment amount) has to be shown separately.

I would also like to draw your attention to (para. 3) in that you mentioned ‘documented separately’. I never mentioned separate documentation for each agreement but the agreements to have its own separate terms as they are clearly, and as you have agreed individual agreements.

Therefore, you have failed to supply an enforceable document, which is correctly executed as to be so; it must conform to the Regulations under s60 CCA1974

 

I am of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this agreement by s127 (3) CCA1974 as it is improperly executed under s61 CCA 74, the consequences of improper execution are set out in s65 CCA 1974 and s65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed agreement. Since this document does not conform to the form and content requirements of s60 CCA, s127 (3) CCA 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this agreement.

 

I have received a list of payments that I have made towards the above account since it was opened in Oct 2004 which come to the total of £ 6,656.98. If this total is deducted from the £ 10,000 cash loan then that only leaves £3,343.02 left to clear the original amount.

I believe that due to the nature of the unenforceable agreement I am willing to make the final payment of £ 3,343.02 that with the £6,656.98 will return the £ 10,000 loan advance.

If you could respond to this letter before 31st Jan 2009 as after this date I will exercise my rights under s65 CCA 1974.

I got a reply from them:

 

 

 

worst still my wife has paid the £ 8000. so do i put a claim in for return of over payment on this i am not sure, but i will have to wait till 20th March on this an look at FOS to follow this up. the company is in administration as well so watch this space. but any advise will be great...

[FireFox1969]

following on with the requests for my CCA's on the other accounts i have just received a letter today. understand that the letter that i sent of recorded was signed for on the 21/01 and its taken 6 days to send this:

 

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/FireFox1969/img019.jpg

[B3rty]

When i phoned them they mentioned some GOODE guy who has looked into the CCA. who the heck is Mr GOODE.

 

Sir Roy Goode...google him he's quite important and best you find out for yourself as part of your learning curve ..while you are there look up Francis Bennion as well...these Guys Kinda wrote the Consumer Credit Act!

[FireFox1969]

today was the last day and only two had respoded to my request for copies of CCA's but yet not received one back is this common out of so many requests.

[FireFox1969]

i have had a reply for my CCA from Capital One. Thay sent me a print out of the terms and conditions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[finley303]

HI FIREFOX1969

i sent off for cca from halifax card,had a reply saying they were not required to provide a copy of original agreement so they just sent me an agreement but not original one ,any advice on this?

thanks