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    • Thanks for the message jk2054   I have just been drafting what I want to say and I think its best to focus purely on the supremacy of contract. The reason being that I dont want the judge to start focusing on other parts of my witness statement when surely just the supremacy of contract section alone should be enough to get this dismissed.    The crux of my defense revolves around the principle of Supremacy of Contract. When I purchased my flat in December 2016, the contract explicitly included ownership of parking spot 112, as delineated in the lease documentation provided in Exhibit 1. This documentation unequivocally establishes my right to use and occupy this parking space. Furthermore, the subsequent exhibits, particularly Exhibit 3, clearly depict the marked boundaries of parking spot 112, corroborating my ownership as stated in the lease agreement. Additionally, the official register of title, presented in Exhibit 4, reinforces this ownership claim. Moreover, I draw the court's attention to relevant legal precedents, such as Pace v Mr N and Link Parking v Ms P, which demonstrate that parking companies cannot override a tenant's right to park on designated property. These cases serve as persuasive authorities supporting my argument regarding the Supremacy of Contract in residential parking disputes. It is my contention that the absence of any contractual obligation to display a permit for parking spot 112 absolves me of any liability in this matter. The claimant's failure to acknowledge my ownership rights in their witness statement further underscores the weakness of their case.
    • I agree with you LFI, a totally wrong decision, I may be wrong but IMO who was driving is irrelevant .... So what if he declared himself as driver within 28 days? .... I may be wrong but it's my understanding that that just makes him liable for the charge as driver. The fact is, the driver, declared or not, only made the error of entering the wrong vehicle registration number .... The parking was paid for. I think it more likely the judge dismissed because he didn't appeal to the PPC and tell them about the error and confirm he paid giving the chance of rectifying the situation before it got to court. But we can only know if Dave962 clarifies. Pollux, is that a fish like Cod? 😁
    • and more .. As thames water pushes to further rip off captive customers, not get fined for it, and allow more dividends .. for little more than 'aspirations' to do better More detail comes out of the literally and figuratively sh** companies apparently shunting money out of the regulated business to profit/bonus/dividend generating unregulated side companies   "Accounts filed at Companies House show : (Kennets) accounts, filed more than 12 months after the end of Kennet’s financial year, showed that the company made a £1.15m pre-tax profit for the year to 31 March 2023, up from £374,000 a year earlier. Revenues rose to £1.6m in 2023 – up from £1m in "Kennet Properties paid out a £14.5m dividend in the year to 31 March 2023" "Kennet ?takes on? land no longer needed by Britain’s biggest water company before developing it and selling it on, typically for housing or commercial premises. It also received income for the use of sewer networks by third parties for fibre-optic cabling."   Thames Water could raise bills to £627 a year to help fix leaks | Thames Water | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Embattled water supplier promises to invest up to £3bn more over the next five years     Thames Water-linked firm paid £14m in dividends despite concerns over group | Thames Water | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Kennet Properties sells off Thames Water land, whose owner, Kemble Water, has warned it would not be able to pay a £190m loan  
    • I think it will make more sense if you read that the Judge meant the 28 day sentence was on the PCN not the sign. He lost because in the Judge's opinion the registered keeper has the option to declare who was driving on the day. Dave didn't do that so he takes the blame for not making the declaration. A totally wrong decision which can be challenged at a price. There is no guarantee that another Judge will want to say that the original judgement was majorly wrong so may not change it. On the other hand another Judge may say the decision was an absolute load of pollux and reverse the decision and add punitive additions on to TPS for bringing such a hopeless case to Court.  That's why we call it Judge Lottery. To be fair, Judges tend to get it right more often than not. Doesn't make things any easier for Dave.
    • Do we have any cases where TFl don't write?  I tried to lookup but couldn't find much. Any idea?
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Arrows/drydens PAPLOC - GE Money Debenhams Store card debt

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Hello everyone, maybe you can help me.


I'm in a bit of a sticky mess. Heres a brief background.


I have a debt going back to maybe 2002

an account I and my wife of the time (i'm now divorced, she ran off to America (true story))...


opened a Debenhams account and at the point of her leaving me she left me in June 2005 with 5,100 of debt on an Debenhams (GE Money).


At that point, not knowing what to do,


I joined Kensingtons Financial, who write to all your creditors for you negotiating payments etc.


One thing they did successfully with most of my creditors (except GE money) was to freeze the interest.


I quit Kensington and started paying the creditors what I could afford on my own after getting some sensible advice about incomings/outgoings etc.


I wrote many many times to them since 2005 letting them know I can only pay x amount and have paid them that,

but they kept adding interest, but I put my head in the sand, as you do, and its got up to 10,500 now.


I know this sounds like I'm trying to play victim here and I hold my hand up I did use the card,

so did my wife (mostly), we buried our heads in the sand, simple as that and she left debt free as everything was in my name.



I got a letter from them asking if I was in financial difficulty. etc and if so offering to freeze interest or increase repayments etc.

I'm guessing 10k is some type of trigger limit for them. I

wrote to them saying Yes please, stop the interest. And then keep paying them what I can per month.


They've just wrote a letter unrelated to my plea as it were and said I now owe 15K including arrears.

but total owed 10k and minimum payment 10k.

I think their computer is screwed up or something because I got something like this last year, where it made me call them up and clarify it and they adjusted it.


I'm guessing its some type of fear tactic to make me call them.

Bearing in mind I am paying them every month, its not a huge amount but its all I can afford.

I'm going to assume their computer again is not right, they surely cant slap 5k on there.


The amount of interest they have charged is unbelievable. They are relentless.


Ás you can imagine, I'm feeling very nervous and harrassed.


I was hoping this year that I could maybe negotiate with them

and ask them if I could pay them 3,000 as a full and final settlement as my dad is willing to help me,

he should be getting payment around march.


And I was thinking since I owed 5100 to start with, and my financial people (kensington)

asked them to freeze interest at the time, they might accept it.


Now I feel I dont know what to do.


Can anyone offer me any advice as to what move to make next?


SHould I request a CCA or something like that?

Should I try and settle with them?

I cant afford more than what I'm paying right now.


Even if they scrapped the interest since 2005 (making it 5,100) and I paid the 3000 from my dad,

and then was able to realistically pay them and pay the 2000 off a light would be in view.

I dont want to go to court, go bankrupt (I have NO house or car or anything of real value).


Thanks for listening. Sorry if I just blurted it all out, its the nerves speaking!


Sorry for babbling there I think I've calmed down now for the minute!


I've looked again at the statement they sent. I think they've stopped the interest for now as on the statement it says against 0.00 against estimated interest next month. So I think they've frozen the interest so far. The "amount including arrears" of jumping up 5000+ I have no idea about.


My question is, do you think it might be worth me sending them a full & final settlement offer letter?


only... I'm not in a position right now, my dad should be able to help in a couple of months or so. I hope!


Or would a CCA request put me in a better advantageous position for negotiating first?


Does anyone have any suggestions?

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Thanks very much, very helpful.


(Just to add here.... these are the original creditors)


When you say subject access request... how do I do that? is there a letter template?


As regards charges... You mean interest? well I'm guessing they froze it, but it would be good to see all this in black and white.


I'll send the CCA request for now, and mail it tomorrow.



Edited by jackjones
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  • 2 months later...

Hello everyone.


I've had a debt with Debenhams (GE MONEY) for some time now.

I've paid what I can afford every month,

and have a standing order set up with them.

The interest is frozen.


The loan balance is now a whopping 10,000+ which has doubled from 5,000 since my wife left in 2005.


I pay them every month but they've put me in arrears since the amount I pay each month is less than what they expect

"you have failed to make the payments when due and your breach has resulted in arrears of 10K"


They've sent me a default notice under section 87 of the consumer credit act which is giving me 21 days to take action to resolve it or face possible court action.


I have no idea what to do as a next step. I dont want a CCJ on my record.


They say to remedy this breach I must pay the full 10K within 21 days from the receipt of notice.

Then it says you may telephone us on 0870 ... with your payment proposals.


Im scared and nervous. Is it just for them to get me to increase my payment? because I cant.


I have no property or car the debt is totally unsecured.


I've already requested a copy of the CCA agreement as advised and sure enough they provided it.

I have had the account since 2000.


my dad has offered to give me 3,000 pounds in order to pay it off and lay it to rest.

He can see the stress I am under.

Do you think if I make them a full and final settlement offer they might take it?

the Debt was originally 5K and has ballooned to 10K.

Other wise it would take forever to recover.


Is it worth a shot?



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First send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail If they fail to provide it within 12+2 days or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

Edited by cerberusalert
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The default notice is incorrect in that they're demanding the whole sum rather than the arrears to rectify the default.


You can defend a CCJ claim.


If you make an F & F offer, make sure you get it in writing.


Can you scan and post the CCA they sent for it to be checked over please.

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If the CCA is enforceable you can then send a SAR to determine what unfair charges have been added which you can claim back. Those alone will probably negate the balance of the debt anyway. But let see what a CCA request throws up first, because there's no point in making any offers until your in a strong position to negotiate in your own favour.

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Thanks for that. I've already tried that, on the good advice of this website, and they enclosed my original agreement (photocopy).


How would I know if its unenforcable?


I'm unsure if they would accept that amount as a settlement.

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Why are you paying GE money anything at all when they have no legal powers to any monies off you?

Only a county court does.

I would demand a full refund of everything you have paid them so far - threaten them with legal action if they refuse & report them to the OFT/trading standards in the process.

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I'm sorry to say that all the prescribed terms are there, so the next step will be for you to send a SAR letter which will cost £10... letter #9 The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors send it to the original creditor, they have 40 days to provide the information. It should include statements of all the charges which have been added & you should be able to reclaim those which are unfair.

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Thanks for checking it out. That sounds like a good idea, thank you for that. I will try it and see what happens.


The interest etc they added i'm sure i owe it as i always paid less than minumum payment when wife left, and a few months I paid nothing. but for the most part i've paid something, just what i could afford. they could be in the right.


My dilemma is that they are asking me to pay 10,000 within 21 days or call them to negotiate, I am not sure what to do. firstly I cant give them any more per month (not what they are asking) and I certainly cant afford 10,000. But my dad said to see if they would accept 3K and he could help me out.


sorry to repeat myself, just not sure what to do next.

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Thank you Mr.Ton. but wouldn't that end up in court though as im bound by the agreement and I've defaulted on it ? so although they might not legal authority now, they could later?


I'd love to stop payments to these idiots. They are stressing me out good and proper, the debt has doubled in 4 years. Thats a relief to know that they have no legal authority over me.


but I'm just a bit worried that could lead me straight into court, which i'd like to avoid if I can.

Maybe its a scare tactic to get me to call them an re-negotiate monthly repayments.

The default notice is asking for the full 10K (as arrears) which somebody earlier on said that its not valid to do that.


I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but I'm thinking at least if maybe I keep paying them something then maybe it might put me in a better position IF it gets taken to court, because they could see that I have been making efforts to pay and intend to pay.


One chap on here states he's in litigation with them, I'd much rather it not go to that stage and them keep accepting all I can afford to pay until such time as I can increase payments (not in the near future!)


i'll follow the advice given earlier to obtain the Subject Access Request and see what happens, hopefully some of the charges GE money has placed on me can be removed. (Not sure how i'd tell) but i'll wait and see what comes back.


Maybe then I can be in a better position to bargain with them.


The other thing I was thinking is maybe writing to them showing them Income & Expenditure showing them my dire financial situation and re-affirming that the amount I'm paying is the most I can afford.


And maybe if that gets me nowhere maybe offer them the full and final amount my dad will lend me 3K (of the 10K owing). I wouldn't mind if they dropped it to 5K and I paid 3K down and owed 2K, at least an end in sight for payments.


Anybody have any thoughts on the best course of action?

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I have got the same DN its invalid no date to remedy!


They issued court papers to me 5 days after assigning the debt. They do not care about if you can pay or not American bank they go by their own rules.


But IMO if they terminate your agreement under that DN their claim will fall at the first hurdle.


Good luck



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