babegem v Phoenix recoveries/HSBC

[babegem]

Hiya, babegem/fedup.....my understanding of a set aside is where judgement has been given and you ask for that judgement to be set aside as you now have a defence.. If the judge allows it to be set aside you then go back to square one and submit your defence and fight the claim.

 

I think its a combi in our case as with my claim, they havent amended the poc, so setting aside forces it to happen if they are going to as goes back to beginning, but I understand that if do that then I have to pay their costs so far...? so cant do that.

[babegem]

Fedup... having said that, your offer seems like they are struggling. Have they given you anything so far in supposed proof?

 

I dont knw what accounts they are claiming for mine, so if stands as per existing POC, then is grossly over what was owed as have a figure of appro £850.. (minus the bank charges).

[fedupwithdebt2009]

Hiya, babegem/fedup.....my understanding of a set aside is where judgement has been given and you ask for that judgement to be set aside as you now have a defence.. If the judge allows it to be set aside you then go back to square one and submit your defence and fight the claim.

 

The strikeout comes when you go back into the ring with them to defend their claim and they've got nothing to fight back with so the judge strikes it out..

 

As I said that's just my understanding of it.

 

Thanks spam, I think we all take on different interpritations of what these terms mean.....

[babegem]

Ill ask the CAB now for us all....

[fedupwithdebt2009]

Fedup... having said that, your offer seems like they are struggling. Have they given you anything so far in supposed proof?

 

I dont knw what accounts they are claiming for mine, so if stands as per existing POC, then is grossly over what was owed as have a figure of appro £850.. (minus the bank charges).

 

How can you possibly be expected to defend this claim when they are not showing you what evidence of any debt owed they have???

 

And why dont the judges MAKE them comply with their order TO provide documents???Then at least you would know exactley what you are dealing with... This I CANNOT get my head round. If we did not disclose as LIP's then the judge would simply award claiment CCJ regardless of them having complied....or not :evil:

 

The one thing I will say babegem is be confident in what you know to be true....if its several accounts then they HAVE to prove it surely....dont let them intimidate you or confuse you cos then they HAVE won.......whether they win the claim or not.....I know I have been right down there over this claim of ours and was terrified of the prospect of going to court at first, but now we are so far into it I am fine, very upbeat and confident. Companies like Phoenix should not be allowed to continue to issue claims willy nilly like they do at the moment, surely the courts will get fed up of all the defended claims they are having to deal with.......

 

Also yes, we have Just done disclosure and I think its witness statement next and the pre trail wotsit...(sorry cant remember name of it)

 

fedup

[Spamalot]

ignore this post....tried to delete it cos it was out of sync but now it won't go away....

Edited May 6, 2009 by Spamalot

[Spamalot]

Ill ask the CAB now for us all....

 

 

Probably a good idea.

[fedupwithdebt2009]

I'll second that.....twice too

[fedupwithdebt2009]

Just a thought, Mines HSBC too.....how old are your "alledged" debts babegem?? My "alledged" debt is an account from 1997.....yes........TWELVE years ago

[fedupwithdebt2009]

ignore this post....tried to delete it cos it was out of sync but now it won't go away....

 

What if I dont want to ignore it spam??

[Spamalot]

What if I dont want to ignore it spam??

 

you could always try and get it set aside.

[Craftygirl42]

Just jumping in here cos doing my witness statement. Mine is through the small claims, so a little different from yours. The Judge has ordered Marlin/Pheonix to supply documents here too and they havent and its now gone to a hearing.

 

If we ignored the court orders we would find ourselves in a pile of poo and having to deal with more fall out but they seem to be able to play the system left right and centre.

 

I would be interested to know how many of the defendants that Marlin/Pheonix take to court quickly are homeowners. What about you two. Was wondering if they see us as a soft target and aim to get a CO as quick as possible

[Spamalot]

Just jumping in here cos doing my witness statement. Mine is through the small claims, so a little different from yours. The Judge has ordered Marlin/Pheonix to supply documents here too and they havent and its now gone to a hearing.

 

If we ignored the court orders we would find ourselves in a pile of poo and having to deal with more fall out but they seem to be able to play the system left right and centre.

 

I would be interested to know how many of the defendants that Marlin/Pheonix take to court quickly are homeowners. What about you two. Was wondering if they see us as a soft target and aim to get a CO as quick as possible

 

Mines Marlin/Pheonix....they hinted at CO within 3 months of taking over and I got a ccj while I wasn't looking....http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/192275-ccj-interest-debt.html

fighting em now though..

So far they have produced ZILCH! so despite being a bit windy about the whole thing I'm looking forward to getting their backs against the wall for the aggro and heartache they've caused me and my kids!!!

 

My rant over....sorry to Highjack Babegem.

[Craftygirl42]

Also apologies to Babygem for hijacking your thread, but do feel its supportive to work out the ways that this company works. We were paying through a DMP and the said its ok for 3 months at that rate on one of our accounts and then we will go for a CO, it took another year from them to send a claim form. Just wonder why it was ok for that length of time and now they have to start causing us huge amounts of stress and playing with our heads

[fedupwithdebt2009]

Hi all....for us yes we are home owners and yes they told us within a short time of taking over the "alledged" debt that they were gunna go for charging order...

 

Thing is Link financial did that to us in 2004 and we never fought it. So I know exactly what will happen if they DO...and its a big DOOOO get a ccj against us so am well prepared for that.

Its paid now tho thankfully and thats why I wont let them do it to us, and its against my human rights anyway!!!!

 

Your dead right craftygirl, its really supportive to get our heads together and help each other. Who knows who may be reading this........

 

It seems very strange to me that they are a company in luxamberg who are issuing these claims willy nilly in uk, and the courts seem to be ok with letting them do this:mad:......is there a connection somewhere????? It sure makes me wonder...........

 

It does affect things when there is this type of stress hanging over you....and my 3 kids are all late teens now (god love em!!!) but I made sure they knew why I was stressed out and why I had had their dad in a head lock!!!:eek:

 

There should be perhaps a "Phoenix" sub catagory on here......seems like its much needed..for us all to share info and tactics when dealing with these "people"

 

I hope it goes well at CAB babegem

 

Fedup

[Beamengine]

If you are admitting that the claim is valid then I am not sure what you are trying to achieve as you've already admitted the debt and now the amount.

The confusion over the lumping together surely comes from HSBC who can do this by treating it as an All Monies claim. If they have claimed that you defaulted on payment you must have had an agreement which you failed to meet or you failed to reach an agreement on payments. Either way they are entitled to sell the debt on but they should have informed you of the closure of the accounts and the formation of a new one. If they failed to do this then you should claim the costs incurred as a result of this failure from them.

If you do admit to the debt you should ask the judge to not award costs on the basis that you have tried all that you could to avoid the court claim. You should also ask that Phoenix should be treated in the same way as any other creditors who have agreed to freeze interest and accept payments you can afford.

[babegem]

How can you possibly be expected to defend this claim when they are not showing you what evidence of any debt owed they have???

 

And why dont the judges MAKE them comply with their order TO provide documents???Then at least you would know exactley what you are dealing with... This I CANNOT get my head round. If we did not disclose as LIP's then the judge would simply award claiment CCJ regardless of them having complied....or not :evil:

 

The one thing I will say babegem is be confident in what you know to be true....if its several accounts then they HAVE to prove it surely....dont let them intimidate you or confuse you cos then they HAVE won.......whether they win the claim or not.....I know I have been right down there over this claim of ours and was terrified of the prospect of going to court at first, but now we are so far into it I am fine, very upbeat and confident. Companies like Phoenix should not be allowed to continue to issue claims willy nilly like they do at the moment, surely the courts will get fed up of all the defended claims they are having to deal with.......

 

Also yes, we have Just done disclosure and I think its witness statement next and the pre trail wotsit...(sorry cant remember name of it)

 

fedup

 

Well, they are arguing that the very vague assignment is some proof, but the figure doesnt bear similarity to that which i had estimated at the date that the account was closed. I was never given the last statments to be able to see for myself it adds up. There MUST be a way that they have to comply, and at my hearing the judge did say to me that if they were unable to provide disclosure, then there would be no case for me to answer and the case would not exist. How long do I wait before taking action and what action do I take? How do I make the court notice they havent complied?

 

Also brought to my attention that the new POC has not been shown in sriting but in the hearing they were referring to two accounts, no more, no less.

 

If this is so, then the figure id without doubt incorrect.

[fedupwithdebt2009]

If you are admitting that the claim is valid then I am not sure what you are trying to achieve as you've already admitted the debt and now the amount.

The confusion over the lumping together surely comes from HSBC who can do this by treating it as an All Monies claim. If they have claimed that you defaulted on payment you must have had an agreement which you failed to meet or you failed to reach an agreement on payments. Either way they are entitled to sell the debt on but they should have informed you of the closure of the accounts and the formation of a new one. If they failed to do this then you should claim the costs incurred as a result of this failure from them.

If you do admit to the debt you should ask the judge to not award costs on the basis that you have tried all that you could to avoid the court claim. You should also ask that Phoenix should be treated in the same way as any other creditors who have agreed to freeze interest and accept payments you can afford.

 

Hi what would you define as an "all monies claim" as i have not heard that before??

 

fedup

[Beamengine]

An All Monies claim lumps all of the debts irrespective of how they arose into a single claim. It appears that HSBC did this before selling it on to make it easier for the DCA to handle as otherwise there would be three separate claims with costs on each.

In view of babegem's admission ot the HSBC debts Phoenix would only have to show that HSBC consolidated the three that were related to the current account before selling them on .

[babegem]

An All Monies claim lumps all of the debts irrespective of how they arose into a single claim. It appears that HSBC did this before selling it on to make it easier for the DCA to handle as otherwise there would be three separate claims with costs on each.

In view of babegem's admission ot the HSBC debts Phoenix would only have to show that HSBC consolidated the three that were related to the current account before selling them on .

 

Beamengine, I dont understand where you are coming from, I have not admitted the debt or the claim. I admitted very honestly and consistently that I used to owe HSBC some monies. As per my defence I have never denied that I used to owe them monies, however it is not clear what the amounts were/are and if the claim in question relates or is assigned by the claimant.

 

I have to say that I am confused as to your notices on my thread in general, do you have a claim yourself or are you registered as an advisor only? How does my case relate to you/yours? Perhaps this will shed light on your thoughts for me?...

 

I think you maybe dont understand that the fact I used to owe HSBC some monies is not the same thing as me admitting this claim, or why would I even be on this site or defending? It is down to the claimant to show me and the court (since the claimant decided to follow this route) that something is owed to them and to what value, and that it is enforceable under laws based on the irregularities that have ben observed on HSBC and Largo and Phoenix's conduct.

 

If you have some legal training and are trying to tell me something I dont seem to know already then I would very much appreciate your input and thoughts ...

[babegem]

If you are admitting that the claim is valid then I am not sure what you are trying to achieve as you've already admitted the debt and now the amount.

The confusion over the lumping together surely comes from HSBC who can do this by treating it as an All Monies claim. If they have claimed that you defaulted on payment you must have had an agreement which you failed to meet or you failed to reach an agreement on payments. Either way they are entitled to sell the debt on but they should have informed you of the closure of the accounts and the formation of a new one. If they failed to do this then you should claim the costs incurred as a result of this failure from them.

If you do admit to the debt you should ask the judge to not award costs on the basis that you have tried all that you could to avoid the court claim. You should also ask that Phoenix should be treated in the same way as any other creditors who have agreed to freeze interest and accept payments you can afford.

 

... I havent admitted the claim, I have defended it based on solicitors advice... HSBC are also not entitled under the banking code to sell a disputed or default a disupted account, which was disputed before being sold.

[babegem]

An All Monies claim lumps all of the debts irrespective of how they arose into a single claim. It appears that HSBC did this before selling it on to make it easier for the DCA to handle as otherwise there would be three separate claims with costs on each.

In view of babegem's admission ot the HSBC debts Phoenix would only have to show that HSBC consolidated the three that were related to the current account before selling them on .

 

 

I havent heard of all monies either, good of them (HSBC) to make it easy for a DCA and make it totally illegible for me?! (Including the amount). Costs would not have been added to each if they had been kept seperate as they would have been through small claims court for amounts, but I dont even know what is owed on each/any accounts as have never seen proof from DCA!

 

HSBC have also told me on general enquiry that on example case they would have to have shown me in terms on agreement and made me aware etc BEFORE selling he debt on that this is what they were going to do. Had they done that I would have contested it at that stage, but this didnt happen either. I had a correspondance stating that there would be no court action on the disputed part of my account, which may or may not have been connected to another debt, rightly or wrongly. I have simply asked to be shown what has happened and that is was done properly and how they get to the extortionate amount they have claimed as it doesnt and never did match was was an estimate years ago (some of which has been paid off now to thre DCA's as tokens whilst the dispute is looked into.

[fedupwithdebt2009]

Yes

Edited May 7, 2009 by fedupwithdebt2009
mistakes mistakes again!!

[Beamengine]

... I havent admitted the claim, I have defended it based on solicitors advice... HSBC are also not entitled under the banking code to sell a disputed or default a disputed account, which was disputed before being sold.

 

Your defence statement does state that you did have an overdrawn current account, a personal loan and a flexi loan. Although you haven't admitted the claim, you are disputing it, my statement was that you have admitted that a claim is valid as you go on to dispute only the default charges and accrued interest.

Despite this admission your solicitor included the requirement for strict proof. In the absence of a valid notice of assignment for all three debts you might be able to persuade the judge that only your overdrawn current account can be enforced which if it reduces the debt to the small claims level which would remove the costs element.

Your debts remain even if their claim is dismissed so Phoenix will simply sort out the technical issues and have another go.

The fact that HSBC may be in breach of contract does not render the assignment invalid although you might be able to recover your defence costs from them.

[babegem]

I still havent had the disclosure, any ideas guys?

 

cant ask for copies without and the deadline has been over a week now. I also havent had reply from the sols to clarify their offer.