Bailiff visit!

[KFCgravylover]

Hi all. Sorry to sound so upbeat but just reading through some of these threads and its nice to know we are all in the same boat!

 

Well today we had our second visit from the bailiffs re. unpaid council tax. They wanted to speak to OH so I said he was out at work and refused them entry. He advised me who he was but refused to show me any ID. He took my OH mobile number and said he should contact him within 24hrs or he would return and not be as nice next time. Ooooooh. He left a signed letter.

 

My husband is self-employed with a big sign written van and he was only working around the corner! The Bailiff spotted the van and knocked on at his customers house. He introduced himself to everyone present and explained eactly why he was there. OH asked for ID which again was refused so OH said well I'm not talking to you. Go away. Bailiff enquired as to ownership of the Van. Remember that big one with OH's name emblazoned all over it? Next thing Bailiff has returned here and posted a levy stating the Van has been seized and will be removed in 5 days. Signed in a different name!

 

Can they do that? Thought tools of the trade were safe!

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

KFCgravylover

[scatz1972]

You need to write to the bailiff company and state that the van is exempt from seizure as it is a tool of the trade,

 

Statutory regulations state that the following MUST NOT be taken:

 

"Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally in employment, business or vocation"

 

also refer to the fact that the van is clearly sign written.

 

This should remove the levy and any associated fees. Remember to send everthing recorded, keep copies and send duplicates to your council.

 

Also dont speak to the bailiff on the phone, they will only try to bully you.

Edited January 23, 2009 by scatz1972
order of words

[lamb to the slaughter]

i shouldn't worry to much about the van going, this is an empty threat as its a work tool and clearly is signwritten!!!!

 

my concern here is the no id thing, no id probably = no certificate = illegal levy!!!

[Voxter]

He cant take the van.....sounds like a complete idiot. Obviously hes had no training and hasnt heard of the data pro act either.

 

If he wont show u ID then get a mug shot.

[davey77]

If you see him walking up the drive again, call the police. Once he refuses to leave to coppers will already be on the way. If he thinks you are going to do that every time he turns up he'll stay away.

 

I would contact the CAB and ask what further action and complaints you can make as well.

[chris600uk]

Hmmm.........

 

I'd leave the police out of it, he'll probably bamboozle them, it happens a lot.

 

I'd go with Voxter's comments 100%

 

And a little bit further; write to them after reading this from tomtubby's website:

 

Bailiff Offences

 

It is always the case that any complaint about a bailiff, should be resolved informally, if possible. In particular, as this is easier, quicker, and less expensive. Many times, the mere threat of court action is sometimes all that is necessary to convince the bailiff company to settle any dispute.

 

Due to recent cut backs in legal aid, together with the complexity of bailiff law, instructing a solicitor is not an easy route at all. Nonetheless, by writing to the bailiff company, and also the company who instructed them, in a way that shows that you are both confident and sufficiently well informed, very often is enough for your dispute to be resolved without legal action.

 

You will find listed below, the four main areas where claims against bailiffs can be made.

 

If you are considering legal action, it is necessary to firstly identify which offence has been committed. From experience this is more likely to be overcharging of fees and Illegal Distress and it is these offences that are likely to prove more successful when considering legal action.

 

What is Illegal Distress?

 

This is one of the main offences that is seen by the courts. This can include where the bailiff has levied on goods that do not belong to you, where goods are listed that should be exempt or most importantly, Illegal Distress is where the bailiff is found not to be a Certificated Bailiff, as required by law.

 

For Council Tax , Business Rates, Road Traffic Debts, Magistrate Court Fines etc, the bailiff must, by law, be Certificated if he levies (seizes) goods. This can be either goods within the house that he lists on a Walking Possession, or a vehicle or other items outside.

 

If it is found that the bailiff has acted illegally then the levy itself is void and therefore must be cancelled.

 

In seeking damages for illegal distress, the owner of the goods could make a claim for trespass, and as such, any claim would be against the bailiff who levied, and any creditor authorising the illegal act ( ie: the Local Authority)

[chris600uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1763934.html

 

Read this it will explain it more clearly and give you the legal basis for your complaint to the bailiffs IN WRITING and by email with an email copy to the council tax department and the head of the council tax department and your local councillor and your MP.

[letsmakeamark]

Leave the police out of it they get paid to help the bailiffs.

[chris600uk]

Just for completeness here is the uptodate quote you can use, cut and pasted from here:

 

PART 52 - Enforcement of fines

 

 

Execution of magistrates’ court distress warrant

52.8

(5)

A person executing a warrant of distress shall –

(a)

either –

(i)

if he has the warrant with him, show it to the person against whom the distress is levied, or

(ii)

otherwise, state where the warrant is and what arrangements may be made to allow the person against whom distress is levied to inspect it;

(b)

explain, in ordinary language, the sum for which distress is levied and the reason for the distress;

...............

(d)

in any case, show documentary proof of his identity.

(6)

There shall not be taken under the warrant the clothing or bedding of any person or his family or the tools, books, vehicles or other equipment which he personally needs to use in his employment, business or vocation, provided that in this paragraph the word “person” shall not include a corporation.

(7)

The distress levied under any such warrant as aforesaid shall be sold within such period beginning not earlier than the 6th day after the making of the distress as may be specified in the warrant, or if no period is specified in the warrant, within a period beginning on the 6th day and ending on the 14th day after the making of the distress:

Provided that with the consent in writing of the person against whom the distress is levied the distress may be sold before the beginning of the said period.

(8)

The clerk of the court which issued the warrant may, on the application of the person charged with the execution of it, extend the period within which the distress must be sold by any number of days not exceeding 60; but following the grant of such an application there shall be no further variation or extension of that period.

(9)

The said distress shall be sold by public auction or in such other manner as the person against whom the distress is levied may in writing allow.

(10)

Notwithstanding anything in the preceding provisions of this rule, the said distress shall not be sold if the sum for which the warrant was issued and the charges of taking and keeping the distress have been paid.

(11)

Subject to any direction to the contrary in the warrant, where the distress is levied on household goods, the goods shall not, without the consent in writing of the person against whom the distress is levied, be removed from the house until the day of sale; and so much of the goods shall be impounded as is in the opinion of the person executing the warrant sufficient to satisfy the distress, by affixing to the articles impounded a conspicuous mark.

(12)

The person charged with the execution of any such warrant as aforesaid shall cause the distress to be sold, and may deduct out of the amount realised by the sale all costs and charges incurred in effecting the sale; and he shall return to the owner the balance, if any, after retaining the amount of the sum for which the warrant was issued and the proper costs and charges of the execution of the warrant.

(13)

The person charged with the execution of any such warrant as aforesaid shall as soon as practicable send to the court officer for the court that issued it a written account of the costs and charges incurred in executing it; and the court officer shall allow the person against whom the distress was levied to inspect the account within one month after the levy of the distress at any reasonable time to be appointed by the court.

(14)

If any person pays or tenders to the person charged with the execution of any such warrant as aforesaid the sum mentioned in the warrant, or produces a receipt for that sum given by the court officer for the court that issued the warrant, and also pays the amount of the costs and charges of the distress up to the time of the payment or tender or the production of the receipt, the person as aforesaid shall not execute the warrant, or shall cease to execute it, as the case may be.

Formerly rule 54 of the Magistrates’ Courts Rules 1981.

[chris600uk]

Unless "anyone" has a better one:D

[KFCgravylover]

Wow Thank-you so much for the replies. I will take all the advice and will get firing off a few letters on Monday.

 

KFCgravylover

[lamb to the slaughter]

Leave the police out of it they get paid to help the bailiffs.

 

your comments generally are very good however i find this one quite disturbing, it was my experience when i called them on the 1 occasion i had a real nugget 1 out of 4 that is, when the police turned up they listened to what bailiff had to say then listened to what i had to say and simply said we are here to prevent a breach of the peace nothing more nothing less!!!

[Laydee Danielle]

For a start you need to make a complaint to the bailiffs as they have breached the National Standards of Enforcement agents which states ' Enforcement agents should, so far as it is practical, avoid disclosing the purpose of their visit to anyone other than the debtor' and 'They must maintain strict client confidentiality and comply with Data Protection legislation and, where appropriate the Freedom of Information Act'

 

They should not have attended another property to speak to you it's not on and you need to report it!

[chris600uk]

your comments generally are very good however i find this one quite disturbing, it was my experience when i called them on the 1 occasion i had a real nugget 1 out of 4 that is, when the police turned up they listened to what bailiff had to say then listened to what i had to say and simply said we are here to prevent a breach of the peace nothing more nothing less!!!

 

Then you were very very fortunate - most people we've heard from haven't been so lucky.

 

I

[tomtubby]

The rules concerning "tools of the trade" are very grey indeed..however, we were involved in a case last summer in the High Court concerning a firm of High Court Enforcement Officers who had levied upon a work's vehicle. In this case, the vehicle was heavily signed and the Judge took merely seconds to confirm that the vehicle was most certainly a "tool of the trade".

 

The signage is important.

[Saint2K]

Based on the quote "vehicles or other equipment which he personally needs to use in his employment, business or vocation".

 

Would this apply if you used your car to commute a fair distance to work, i.e. 25 Miles ..... without the car, getting to work would be difficult and therefore your job placed at risk?

 

Just curious....

[ambershadow]

As far as I know you have to have Business Insurance on the vehicle

[KFCgravylover]

Me again.

 

Once again, thank-you for the replies you have all been a great help.

 

Today I have written to the Bailiffs complaining about their behaviour. I have advised them it was an illegal levy therefore if they attempt to seize the Van I will bring a case against them for illegal distress. I complained about the fact that they were not discreet and they did not provide any identification. I also requested a copy of their complaints procedure and a revised breakdown of charges as I dont think I should pay an illegal levy charge or enforcement fee. I included a business letterhead with VAT number and a copy of his insurance details proving only he has use of the vehicle personally.

 

I also wrote to the Council with a copy of my complaint to the bailiffs. I filled in a budget sheet and have requested a payment plan with them directly.

 

I have also written to my local county court to see if either of the two clowns that visited Friday are certified Bailiffs then I will complain the Certified Bailiffs association.

 

I think thats everything i need to do???????

 

KFCgravylover