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Hi everyone and hope you can help me.

 

I live in London and my council requires everyoen to have a parking permit to park on the street which obviously because i lvie in this council i have.

 

Anyway i parked my car on the 21/01/09 and took a train to newcastle as i was seeing a show up there with my girlfriend. When i came back tonight, the 22/01/09 i was shocked to see that i had been given a fine. i was given the fine at 17:39 for nto displaying my parkign permit which i was shocked to as the council gives you those self sticking on ones.

After i got in my car i had seen that it had unpeeled itself and fallen on my floor, however this is surely not my fault and not something i should have to pay 60 pounds for as they provide the permit and should make sure it sticky enough to survive a bit of bad weather (i say bad weather as thats the only thing i can guess caused to loose its stickyness, from my window freezing to ice and then melting).

 

So i guess my question is where do i stand and what could i possibly appeal on?

 

I mean the council keeps a record of all cars that have a permit form their registration to their colour and make so surely i have somewhere to stand? i recently got lad of jsut ebfore xmas and dont have money to waste...

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Always worth appealing stating what you said.

 

At the top, say you are formally appealing on the basis that the contravention didn't occur because the permit was clearly displayed when you left the vehicle, and follow up with the circumstance.

 

If you can post up copies of the tickets (both sides) and photos of the parking bay (including the end markers) and signs, people might be able to spot other grounds on which to base your appeal.

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It is the drivers responsibility to ensure the permit at all times the vehicle is parked in the bays so technically the contravention did take place. I would however expect that if the permit was vehicle specific (ie not transfereable) that if you wrote a polite letter to the Council explaining the circumstances they would take that into consideration and cancel the PCN.

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It is the drivers responsibility to ensure the permit at all times the vehicle is parked in the bays

 

.... therefore the driver is required to observe the vehicle 24 hours per day while the car is parked in a bay!!!!!!!

 

Get real G&M. The OP has stated that he believes the permit was correctly displayed when he left the vehicle. Unless he does as I stated above, i.e. sat there 24/7 how can he be aware the permit fell down.

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.... therefore the driver is required to observe the vehicle 24 hours per day while the car is parked in a bay!!!!!!!

 

Get real G&M. The OP has stated that he believes the permit was correctly displayed when he left the vehicle. Unless he does as I stated above, i.e. sat there 24/7 how can he be aware the permit fell down.

 

I am real thank you very much!! I am stating the legal position not what YOU think is reasonable. The contravention is 'not displaying a valid permit' one can hardly appeal that it was displayed if it was on the floor.

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to be fair i see your point Green but they provide the permit and choose the system it uses to stick to my window. Most other councils use a system similar to tax discs where you have to get one of those holders but my council goes for a system of sticky back tape that is only about 3mm thick boarder around the paper itself...

also it actually had only fallen on to the passengers seat with the writing facing up so he easily saw it and ignored it...

Not to mention my car is on their database with my permit tied to it so i cant exactly use it on another car...

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to be fair i see your point Green but they provide the permit and choose the system it uses to stick to my window. Most other councils use a system similar to tax discs where you have to get one of those holders but my council goes for a system of sticky back tape that is only about 3mm thick boarder around the paper itself...

also it actually had only fallen on to the passengers seat with the writing facing up so he easily saw it and ignored it...

Not to mention my car is on their database with my permit tied to it so i cant exactly use it on another car...

 

I did only say 'technically' you are guilty I appreciate you cannot sit in the car 24 hrs a day. Like I said if the permit is actually only valid on one car they should on the first occasion use a bit of discretion and let you off.

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they should on the first occasion use a bit of discretion and let you off.

They should on every occasion use a lot of discretion and cancel the pcn (not 'let anyone off' - that smacks of needing to be grovelling grateful to me) and they should design permits that work!!!!!! And they should be grovellingly apologetic for the ones that don't and put people through hell.

Why aren't we revolting?

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if councils used stick on tickets and permits that stayed stuck on they wouldn't be able to issue so many tickets though. many appeals on this point and mentioned in annual reports yet councils still don't give enough 'stick' to the tickets. why would they when they can give stick to the motorist instead.

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I had a similar case to this. I had a temporary permit while I waited for log book on a new car. Permit is PINK, and split into two parts which you fold. One side is the permit the other side is them saying here is your permit.

 

I accidently left it on the wrong side once and got a PCN. I wrote a polite informal representation, saying in the CEO pictures you can see my name and address on the PINK slip which is easily identifiable as the permit, I am sure you will take this into consideration and cancel the PCN.

 

REJECTED.

 

I got so angry and in my formal reps I wiped the ground with them. The PINK slip is easily identifiable and it has MY name and address on it so it is non-transferable. My biggest argument was that they were effectively trying to STEAL my hard earned money. At the end of the day, permit or no permit, you have a very expensive computer system that tells you that person X purchased permit Y on date Z which is currently valid. It was an honest mistake and there is nothing I can do about it.

 

Maybe try to take that approach if they reject your first appeal. At the end of the day without any complications..You..Mr Redmanmark paid £x on dd-mm-yy for a permit from the council which is STILL valid. You parked somewhere you have PAID to park and it does not make any logical sense why after this has been clarified they would still issue YOU with the same penatly and fine as someone who decided to park there without having EVER paid for a permit and then went to Newcastle...

 

Summary:

 

You paid to park somewhere. They have evidence of this. The proof was not present at the time, but it is now. It's really quite logical...

 

It worked for me (but to be honest, I think it could have gone bery differently)...

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if councils used stick on tickets and permits that stayed stuck on they wouldn't be able to issue so many tickets though. many appeals on this point and mentioned in annual reports yet councils still don't give enough 'stick' to the tickets. why would they when they can give stick to the motorist instead.

 

What a ridiculous statement do you really suggest they specify glue that doesn't work when ordering the machines? The tickets are designed to be peeled off after use so having them stuck on with 'super glue' is not really practical. What ever adhesive you use if applied to a moist window it will not stick for any length of time. Most appeals are for tickets that are face down because the driver is too lazy or rushed to check the ticket is displayed correctly when they place it on the dash board not because they fall off.

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it is a well known issue and far from ridiculous. What I am suggesting is that many councils look for anything that gives them on edge to issue more tickets. useless sticky edging measured in millimetres for long term permits fits the bill for that. readers can always check out documents such as this http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/Complete_JC_Report_2006.pdf to see how well known the issue is by 'the other side'.

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Most appeals are for tickets that are face down because the driver is too lazy or rushed to check the ticket is displayed correctly when they place it on the dash board not because they fall off.

And you know this ...... how?

How many appeals are based on 'I'm sorry guv, I was just too darned lazy to check that I had displayed it correctly'?

Perhaps you are inside the head of every 'lazy' driver?

Are you there when it curls up in the sun? Is that lazy too?

 

Or do you just enjoy winding people up?

Why aren't we revolting?

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