sainsbury credit card Querying this default notice.

[griffin036]

Reading this thread with interest.

 

I have a cc with sainsburys and have missed two payments, today the 20th I received a letter from them dated 13th Jan " This is a default notice served under Section 87 (!) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974" saying I must pay £xxx ( the two missed minimum payments) into my account by 27th Jan. Well isnt that a bit short notice? why have they delayed sending it for a week, there is no postmark on the prepaid envelope. I cca'd them earlier and they signed for the letter on the 6th Jan so its leaving it a bit late for me to "Account in Dispute" them by the 27th.

They also ask for the cc to be cut in two and returned to them "on the address overleaf before 27th Jan", well there is no "address overleaf" and anyway why do they need the card if the account has been closed? is it so they have a signiature I wonder?

Any advice please?

[davey77]

Griffin, if you start your own thread then you should get more assistance that way on this.

 

You should make a complaint to your Local Trading Standards that the Default is invalid as you are supposed to be allowed 14 clear days to remedy a Default. The fact that it is dated 13th shouldn't stop you complaining right away as you only received it today.

 

The 27th is a week away and i doubt anymore will happen by then, placing the account in dispute and then you can fire off another complaint letter to TS about their failure to supply you with an agreement (which they won't by then for sure.)

If you can scan the Default notice (or photograph it) and put it on your thread after removing personal details you'll get more folks popping by with advice.

 

Shelbelle:

 

Even if your 'agreement' was totally clear and legible it still wouldn't comply as there are no prescribed terms showing at all. In fact, they make several points on it saying it's only an application:

 

"Before making an application by post, please ensure...." Top left

 

"Application Requirements" Top left, 2nd paragraph.

 

Below that:

As a responsible lender, Sainsbury's Bank is obliged to set approval criteria. If you cannot answer 'yes' to these question, it is unlikely that your application will be approved"

 

Sainsbury's Bank Visa (Raspberries). Nice choice by the way!

 

"FAILURE TO COMPLETE ALL SECTIONS OF THIS FORM MAY DELAY ACCEPTANCE OF YOUR APPLICATION" Top right

 

Middle top:

****** the Sainsbury's Bank Advantage Visa card are on the back of this application form.

POST TO THE ADDRESS SHOWN AT THE FOOT OF

THIS APPLICATION FORM

 

As you know, everything else is totally unreadable at any magnification and your very good previous correspondence pointing it out has fallen on deaf ears. Time for an LBA?

[griffin036]

Hi all, I have a Sainsburys credit card on which I am two payments ( maybe three by now!) behind on. I sent them a Letter A - "Ask your creditors to hold action on your account" back in November, but have not had any correspondance relating to my problems, only the "You have missed payments" etcetc. On the 20th of Jan I received the letters reproduced below which were dated 13th Jan - a week before I received it.

Can you experienced peeps have a glance over it, can they issue a default notice after only two missed payments? What do you recommend as a response?

I the meantime I have cca'd them, and waiting for their response with that.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread, I'm just starting out on a long battle with 9 credit card companies, its not going to be easy and I think I'm going to need all the help and friends I can get. Fortunately all these cards are well over ten years old, but the debts have built up to a frightening level, and I am literally broke, cannot pay a bean. Sometimes I feel so despondant about the battles ahead I feel I cannot face it all anymore, then again after reading others problems and successes I feel empowered and invincible, then with constant letters and phone calls I'm back down again. I dont answer the phone, my mobile has all the cc numbers on it so I just ignore calls from them. I have cca'd all the companies and am waiting for replies, first one came back from Cap1 today, I started a thread here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/179341-cap1-cca-please-take.html

[B3rty]

What was the post date on the envelope and most important have you kept it

[Duffers Mum]

I received a couple of D/N's from Sainsburys, and they have registered one of them with the CRA's despite not having provided me with an enforceable copy of my agreement.

 

From my personal experience of them, they are very difficult to get shot of, I am paying them a nominal sum each month, they have now stopped interest and charges, but they continued adding them for over a year despite my requests for them to cease doing so. They are part owned by Halifax (HBOS or Lloyds Banking Group whatever they are called these days).

 

They will probably pass it over to Blair Oliver & Scott next who are another bunch who never listen! Just remember, they can't have what you haven't got.

 

Good luck

[griffin036]

What was the post date on the envelope and most important have you kept it

Hi B3rty, yes I've still got the envelope, it is prepaid with no post office stamps on it.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Default is void due to only giving you 14 days.

They have to allow 2 days for service.

 

Get a CCA request off soon as then post it up.

I went all the way with Sainsburys and they pulled out at last minute and wrote £10K off.

[PGH7447]

Default is void due to only giving you 14 days.

They have to allow 2 days for service.

 

.

 

Nice piece of info HAK, I did not know that - Do now though:D

[hammyhound]

Sorry can I just ask do they have to give you 16 days in total (I assume that includes weekends)

 

HH

[Fred Bassett]

Whatever you do, don't tell them - wait for them to terminate the contract, otherwise they might just re-issue it.

 

Fred

[supasnooper]

Sorry can I just ask do they have to give you 16 days in total (I assume that includes weekends)

 

HH

 

For a Default Notice to be valid it should give you 14 calendar days notice under s88 of the CCA 1974 from the deemed date of service.

 

The deemed date of service will be calculated from the date stated on the Default Notice if a post mark is not available on the envelope using Civil Procedure Rule 6.26.

 

 

Deemed Service 6.26 A document, other than a claim form, served in accordance with these Rules or any relevant practice direction is deemed to be served on the day shown in the following table –

Deemed date of service

1. First class post (or other service which provides for delivery on the next business day)

The second day after it was posted, left with, delivered to or collected by the relevant service provider provided that day is a business day; or if not, the next business day after that day.

 

2. Document exchange

The second day after it was left with, delivered to or collected by the relevant service provider provided that day is a business day; or if not, the next business day after that day.

 

3. Delivering the document to or leaving it at a permitted address

If it is delivered to or left at the permitted address on a business day before 4.30p.m., on that day; or in any other case, on the next business day after that day.

 

4. Fax

If the transmission of the fax is completed on a business day before 4.30p.m., on that day; or in any other case, on the next business day after the day on which it was transmitted.

 

5. Other electronic method If the e-mail or other electronic transmission is sent on a business day before 4.30p.m., on that day; or in any other case, on the next business day after the day on which it was sent.

 

6. Personal service

If the document is served personally before 4.30p.m. on a business day, on that day; or in any other case, on the next business day after that day.

 

 

Business days are Monday to Friday, Bank Holidays are excluded.

Edited January 23, 2009 by supasnooper
typo

[supasnooper]

or an even better piece of legal statute to use -

 

Surfaceagentx20 suggests the following is the best reference to quote to pin down the above:

 

Click here to read the full details.

Quote:

Council Tax Manual - Section 3 - Appendix 3.6 - Service of documents by post

 

Appendix 3.6 - Service of documents by post

 

All Text Amended

 

1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

 

This states:-

 

"7. Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

 

2. Practice Direction

 

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

 

"With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

 

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

 

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

 

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

 

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

 

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8 March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

 

[griffin036]

Following 4 months of missed payments to Sainsburys credit card I recently received the following letter:

 

 

This being sent despite me sending them an account in dispute letter following the recipt of an illegible card request form lacking all the prescribed terms and not containing and terms and conditions.

Is this something to be concerned about or part of the usual threatograms apparently issued by BOS willynilly?

Advice please.

[cerberusalert]

Send them this;

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***DCA*** and has been since ***Date***

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As ***DCA*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***DCA*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

[MrMT]

This letter is quite explicit, unlike the other threatograms that contain lots of "may" do this, "might" do that etc so I guess they're serious? Mind you, it sounds like suicide if they do take you to court without a valid CCA. Particularly if you can prove you put them on notice of In Dispute?

 

(My posts are merely my own opinion and should not be taken as legal advice in any way)

[davey77]

Looks a little different to ones i have received from them but all the same is probably just a new style threatogram.

BOS are notorious for never replying with individually tailored responses.

 

I have certainly received much harsher 'we will commence in 7 days' letters from other DCAs and the 7 days came and went with no Court papers arriving on my doorstep.

 

Even though they say 'will' instead of the usual 'may' they have probably realised that consumers know the difference and have updated their correspondence accordingly. Wouldn't be surprised if you will see other exact copies appearing on the threads shortly.

 

Examples (no action ever taken against me):

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/PreviewofFredrickson.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/5copy.jpg

[griffin036]

This is the first contact I've had with Blair,O &S, so not a nice introduction!

I sent the account in dispute off to Sainsburys Bank, Card Services, Pitreavie Business Park, Dunfermline, Fife KY99 4BS as that is where the CCA paperwork came from, but I see this letter has come from Halifax, so I dont know if the two locations are aware of what is going on, which is a bit worrying. i think I will send off a copy of the a/c in dispute to Halifax first.

[davey77]

B,O,Scott are the in-house debt collection dept for Halifax so one in the same.

[griffin036]

This was the CCA that was sent, illegible, no prescribed terms, infact no T+c's unless there was a back page, but that wasnt sent.

 

[davey77]

So you requested the CCA, Sainsburys sent that, then passed it to BOS for collection? What a surprise. Wonder why, oh yes. Because they hoped BOS would be able to bully you into submission. hmmmm

 

If that's all they can produce then they are stuffed IMO.

 

I would get a dispute letter off to BOS then ignore them (just as they will ignore you.)

After that point send anything further to Sainsburys directly.

[griffin036]

This letter is quite explicit, unlike the other threatograms that contain lots of "may" do this, "might" do that etc so I guess they're serious? Mind you, it sounds like suicide if they do take you to court without a valid CCA. Particularly if you can prove you put them on notice of In Dispute?

 

(My posts are merely my own opinion and should not be taken as legal advice in any way)

 

Yes the letter was sent recorded and signed for early Feb

[griffin036]

Just a thought, but seeing as sainsburys bank have sent me a default notice a while ago, I would have thought they would be claiming for the full amount, and not the missing last few payments.

Ideas as to why this isnt the case.

[davey77]

Not sure what their game is there. Is the DN valid?

[griffin036]

Davey this is the Default notice :

 

 

 

It is dated 13th January but recieved on the 20th Jan. I did write and tell them it was invalid due to not enough time allowed. In addition I had sent an account in dispute letter to them as the account entered default on 23rd January for them not sending cca docs within the timescale allowed.

Following the default notice I then had a *****Final Reminder ****You must act now to avoid legal proceedings**** etc etc "As a result we have terminated your credit agreement" letter dated 2nd Feb but receieved by me on 11th Feb again giving 7 days to pay which had expired by the time I had the letter.

[Gazza112]

Subbing