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Passing on Debits HSBC-MCS-HSBC-DLC


chilli_bird
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Hi chilli-bird :)

 

I'd be inclined to follow pete's advice on this one .... being 'unenforceable' doesn't make the debt go away , it just means they cannot chase you for it and you can pay whatever you like ...

However , as they have admitted in writing that it's unenforceable , I think I 'd offer them a derisory repayment of say £5 per month ...... this proves to a court if they go there that you are showing a willingness to settle ...eventually ...

 

 

IMHO stopping paying would go against you .......

 

You could try a letter like this . .. suitably amended ..:

 

Thank you for your letter dated XXXXXXXX

As you have admitted that you don’t hold a valid CCA for this account and the one you have sent me is an agreement that you cannot prove I may or may not have signed, then I consider that you have no evidence on which to base your accusation .

The agreement you have sent me renders this account unenforceable. I am now saying, based on the letter and agreement you have provided, that this account is unenforceable.

As a gesture of goodwill on my part I will pay you £1.00 a month towards this debt as long as you agree to:-

Remove all interest charges.

Removed all late payment fees.

Stop adding interest charges.

Stop adding late payment fees.

If you have not replied to me within 14 days of the date on this letter then I will assume you accept this offer.

Yours

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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Hi chilli-bird :)

 

I'd be inclined to follow pete's advice on this one .... being 'unenforceable' doesn't make the debt go away , it just means they cannot chase you for it and you can pay whatever you like ...

However , as they have admitted in writing that it's unenforceable , I think I 'd offer them a derisory repayment of say £5 per month ...... this proves to a court if they go there that you are showing a willingness to settle ...eventually ...

 

IMHO stopping paying would go against you .......

 

I honestly don't see the logic in this Johnny and actually would be inclined to say the reverse....continuing to pay whilst you recognise the debt is allegedly unenforceable will go against you.

 

I agree that the debt still exists but having a letter saying that it is not enforceable at the present time is sufficient not to pay...providing that the OP is unwilling and/or unable to pay. If he wants to pay, then he can specify his own terms although these may not necessarily be agreed by the creditor.

 

The drawback of continuing to pay, even a nominal sum of £1 a month, will mean that the debt will never become statute barred and will remain open to enforcement. Additionally, the OP's credit file will continue to be adversely affected by late payments in perpetuity as the debt will probably never get repaid via nominal sums.

 

Also, some DCA's apply a collection charge which means that whatever you are paying could be swallowed up in covering these charges and not reducing the debt at all.

 

Just to reiterate, a letter to DLC stating that the OP will only communicate in writing and they should not phone or turn up on his doorstep should suffice. You will occassionally receive letters demanding payment but so what? Until such time as the creditor is in a position to take legal action there is no need for the OP to pay a penny.

 

I would be more inclined to deposit the money in a dedicated savings account, just incase the position did change.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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Hi Welshmam , long time no hear ...... :)

 

I honestly don't see the logic in this Johnny and actually would be inclined to say the reverse....continuing to pay whilst you recognise the debt is allegedly unenforceable will go against you.

 

I agree that the debt still exists but having a letter saying that it is not enforceable at the present time is sufficient not to pay...providing that the OP is unwilling and/or unable to pay. If he wants to pay, then he can specify his own terms although these may not necessarily be agreed by the creditor.

I thought that was the point I was making .... if you can afford to pay ...doesn't matter if the creditor doesn't accept the amount offered - at least you offered......

There is also a process which is called 'Declaratory Relief' which ,I think it was Michael Browne mentioned at one time , where a (potentially unrecoverable )debt can be dissolved by mutual agreement ... but I'm not up to speed on that . ,,.....

The drawback of continuing to pay, even a nominal sum of £1 a month, will mean that the debt will never become statute barred and will remain open to enforcement.

Not sure I follow the logic of this ... how can an unenforceable debt remain open to enforcement .?

Additionally, the OP's credit file will continue to be adversely affected by late payments in perpetuity as the debt will probably never get repaid via nominal sums.

They're not allowed to default you to a CRA for an unenforceable debt . Are they ?:confused:

 

Also, some DCA's apply a collection charge which means that whatever you are paying could be swallowed up in covering these charges and not reducing the debt at all.

DCA's can't chase an unenforceable debt , or impose charges - same as the banks or anyone else ......

 

Just to reiterate, a letter to DLC stating that the OP will only communicate in writing and they should not phone or turn up on his doorstep should suffice. You will occassionally receive letters demanding payment but so what? Until such time as the creditor is in a position to take legal action there is no need for the OP to pay a penny.

 

If the Creditor came into that position , it would go better with a debtor in court to have been seen to be making 'Goodwill' payments ...... IMHO :)

 

I would be more inclined to deposit the money in a dedicated savings account, just incase the position did change.

 

Maybe we just have to agree to disagree on this one Welshmam ...lol..... but nice talking to you again :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hi Welshmam , long time no hear ...... :)

 

Maybe we just have to agree to disagree on this one Welshmam ...lol..... but nice talking to you again :D

 

Same here Johnny...and after all, constructive debate is what this site is all about!! ;) Have a good one....:D

 

PS...Just quickly, yes, Carey I believe reinforces that they can report to CRA's for unenforceable debts...Phillips are trying to charge me £2 for every payment I make on an M&S account, even though I have it in writing from them that they can't find my agreement and recognise that it is unenforceable in court!!

 

PPS...the bit I was saying about an unenforceable debt remaining open to enforcement was if they happened to find the agreement in the intervening period or there was a change in case law precedents which seems to be happening quite a bit at the mo. With statute barred debts they cannot pursue the debt...end of!! Hope that helps clarify my thinking!!

Edited by WelshMam2009
Changed case law reference

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:( now i do not know what to do. Johnny i have always found your advised informative and am very grateful. The thing is they DCA have not sent me anything that resembles an application or anything all i have has is the letter that says that we are following your request for the CCA blah blah blah.....

we will update you in 21 days

I have sent them a prove it letter and again they have no proof that they own the debt.

Im afraid that if i offer them a token of goodwill and they are not happy with the amount (when they contacted me a year ago and i had no knowledge of who Hilesdan were they wanted me to pay £150.00) they will start to add interest on the account.

Also correct me if Im wrong but offering to pay them im admitting that they own the debit but my argument is for them to prove it right? and they they can prove it is by producing my CCA.

I think that if i open an account and put money into it...if it goes to court i can say that i have been putting money aside until they have produced my CCA...What will a court think of that?

My file is now clean and i want it to stay that way, can the DCA default me again. how can i prove it was on my file before.

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statued barred.

What does this really mean. If they DCA are still contacting the OP but no payment has been made for 6 years does this become Statued Barred?

 

Yes...providing the debtor doesn't make a payment or acknowledge the debt and the creditor (DCA or OC) has not commenced any court action within the 6 year period. It doesn't mean that you can't write to them telling them never to darken your doorstep but, as I understand it, an offer of payment would constitute an acknowledgment, even if no payment was subsequently received and the 6 years would re-commence from this point.

 

It's governed by the Limitation Act 1980 if you want to look it up Chilli Bird ;)

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

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:( now i do not know what to do. Johnny i have always found your advised informative and am very grateful. The thing is they DCA have not sent me anything that resembles an application or anything all i have has is the letter that says that we are following your request for the CCA blah blah blah.....

we will update you in 21 days

I have sent them a prove it letter and again they have no proof that they own the debt.

Im afraid that if i offer them a token of goodwill and they are not happy with the amount (when they contacted me a year ago and i had no knowledge of who Hilesdan were they wanted me to pay £150.00) they will start to add interest on the account.

Also correct me if Im wrong but offering to pay them im admitting that they own the debit but my argument is for them to prove it right? and they they can prove it is by producing my CCA.

I think that if i open an account and put money into it...if it goes to court i can say that i have been putting money aside until they have produced my CCA...What will a court think of that?

My file is now clean and i want it to stay that way, can the DCA default me again. how can i prove it was on my file before.

 

 

any thoughts on this

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thought so but needed clarification. Can a DCA take a debtor to court if they do not have a CCA?

 

In theory they can take you to court but without the correct documentation they shouldn't be able to enforce the debt so it would not be a wise move on their part to litigate. Also, you should be able to claim your costs back and/or wasted costs if they withdraw the case part way through.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

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I have sent them a prove it letter and again they have no proof that they own the debt.

 

Sorry chilli-bird ..... I picked this up wrongly .... If they can't prove they own the debt , let 'em whistle ... as long as you can prove you asked them for proof and they failed to provide ....they haven't got a leg to stand on ... and they certainly won't go to court ...... because if they do they have to provide you with copies of the documentation they intend to rely on ... and they can't do that .....

 

On reflection , I think you may be right on this welshmam :oops: ...:)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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  • 1 month later...

Hello

Hope your all well. I got a letter in the post from Hillesden on Friday which was allot shorter then usual...just updating me blah blah blah...we will contact you in 21 days.....

Today i got a letter from MBD...it says that they have been instructed by Hillesden to contact me about the unpaid debt. All future relating contact should be with me.....blah blah blah...

Part of my account managment process in involves profiling accounts to pass to doorstep specialists....blah blah blah... who may arrange to visit you in your home....blah blah blah. How ever i would rather give you the opportunity to discuss your account with me over the phone... blah blah blah...

 

Though that this was sooo ridiculous i just had to post it and also make sure I'm doing the right things.

 

1) my accounts in dispute so therefore am i right in saying that they do not have the right to pass my debt on?

2) Am i right in saying that MBD are Hillesden/DLC?

3) the Postal letter says Banbury but the office is reg in Brackley according to the letterhead?

However i believe that MBD lost their licence in 2008. m i right?

3) i have not called it but read other threads that say that the number on the letter is a divertory number which is not following the guidelines. is this correct?

4)The letter says i would rather give you the opportunity to discuss your account with me over the phone.

I do not remember opening an account with MBD. What can i do about this?

5)The letter is signed Elizabeth Kitcherner, my letters from Hillesden were from a Loockie....looks like loockie has given up on me so Hillesden are trying another route.

 

What should my next steps be

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Just quickly Chilli Bird...I've had 2 letters from MDB and yes, they are Hillesden. I thought the profiling letter was the second one I received from them though, but I may be wrong without checking my file.

 

Anyway, nothing has come of it. I imagine Lizzie is just one of Lockie's side kicks to be honest...probably in the office next door or something!!! :rolleyes:

 

You are right about the Brackley and diverted phone number bit as I also read that on another thread. However, they're still doing this and I'm really unsure of the consequences to be honest. Just keep the envelope in case something does develop.

 

They haven't called me so I'm not really bothered to be honest. In fact, DLC has probably been the least active in terms of chasing my account to date...not that I want to tempt fate of course!! ;)

 

My advice? Just file it away and ignore it.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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It makes me laugh... ha ha ha :D

My 'so called' Account is in dispute until Hillesden can provide a CCA. So they have no right to pass my account onto a 'so-called' other company.

Maybe i should see a solicitor for harassment

 

anyone else have a story about the UN-pleasant plucking pheasant plucker(s).....

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Hi chilli bird :)

How about something like this :

 

Dear Ms Kitchener

Thank you for your letter of xx xxx xx

You are aware that whilst this account is ‘In Dispute’, which it well and truly is because neither you nor anyone else has proved that it exists, you do not have the right to even be pursuing this alleged debt . It should not have been passed to you for collection .

I have to admit that I am not in the least interested in what your management process involves .

I am advising you now that you have no right to visit me without my permission , which you will never have . I will not welcome any doorstep callers and if any attempt is made to call unannounced I will have no hesitation in reporting that party for trespass and will call the police to remove them if necessary .

I will not telephone you as all communication needs to be in writing in case of legal proceedings and I inform you herewith that I will not respond to telephone calls from you, for the same reasons.

You should also be aware that if you intend to proceed to legal action you are required to provide me with the documentation you intend to rely on in court . So far no one in this string of collectors has produced to me any documentation which proves that I am indebted.

In the absence of such proof , I advising you that you should consider abandoning this case and confirming to me in writing that you have done so .

|Yours etc etc ..... :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Thanks pete ! :)

 

Chilli I should add (if you haven't already sent it to make sure your signature is not your usual one .... add a squiggle or two or something by which you can identify it if it turns up on a document ......... :rolleyes: not that I am alleging for one minute that they would do this ...... god forbid |!!;)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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  • 5 months later...

Err. today i received a statment of account.?? confussed what to do....it details the creditor details (DLC), my details, original date of agreement which is 1999? Duration of agreement....not longer applicable.....opening balance and closing balance.....

shall i just file this under BIN?

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Hi Chilli-bird , long time no hear ! :-)

 

Why not send them a copy of the previous letter (at #90) ..... and ask them what part of it they didn't understand ...

 

Tell them that the situation has not changed one bit since then and suggest again that as they have still failed to prove there is a debt they should stop wasting their time and yours with frivolous demands .

 

On second thoughts chilli-bird ... as they don't seem to be demanding anything it may kick them into action ..so I'd just file and forget it .. see where they go from here ....... but if they do come back with a demand the above advice applies LOL .................8-)

Edited by johnnymitch
second thoughts ........

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Err. today i received a statment of account.?? confussed what to do....it details the creditor details (DLC), my details, original date of agreement which is 1999? Duration of agreement....not longer applicable.....opening balance and closing balance.....

shall i just file this under BIN?

 

They have to send you a statement of account at least once annually. I get the same thing from Link although don't think I've ever had one from DLC.

 

Anyway Chilli Bird, as Johnny Mitch said above, just file it and forget about it.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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Err. today i received a statment of account.?? confussed what to do....it details the creditor details (DLC), my details, original date of agreement which is 1999? Duration of agreement....not longer applicable.....opening balance and closing balance.....

shall i just file this under BIN?

Well I just had same letter after not hearing from them in ten months lol

Original date 2000

Paying less is likely to take you longer and may cost you more to pay off your debt!

Duration of agreement: original term no longer applicable

Balance purchased by hillesden : £xx,xxx.xx

Interest no longer being charged

:oops:

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  • 4 months later...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]25759[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]25759[/ATTACH]received this in the post today. shall i file it under BIN?pencil.png

 

The image is too small to read at the mo Chilli Bird but I can just about make out that it is headed "Notice of Sum in Arrears."

 

If it were me, I would be filing it away along with all the others! 8)

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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