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Militant Consumer challenges Egg Card Repayment Protection purchased online

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Seen RosebyL before, not sure what it means though.

 

AC

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I am also updating the Egg-whatiswrongwiththem. Have managed to get doc uploaded and edited to Photobucket. Am now stuck there. I do know that Rosebyl is a person. A man who has signed off some of the letters. I agree that the unenfoceable could be put on there to update anyone else looking at the screen.


hopingforjustice:smile:

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An update.

 

We have made a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) just before the six month deadline expires. This complaint is limited to all the PPI-related issues discussed on this thread so far - which make for quite an impressive list of issues when laid out on the form.

 

Our complaint does not include anything about (un)enforceability of the alleged debt based on the lack of the term "credit limit" on the agreement.

 

I know many people on this site are critical of the FOS, who are accused of being weak, slow, on the side of the banks, etc. - and some may think it's a waste of time doing this.

 

However, I cannot see any reason not to take this step. It is risk free, stress free and financially free - none of which could be said to apply to court action.

 

We are not in a hurry to resolve the situation with Egg, and the longer we delay paying them anything, the less likely we are to ever have to pay anything again. Who knows what will become of Egg in the meantime, or what test cases there will have been.

 

It is also worth pointing out that the alleged outstanding amount is well under £1,000 - so commercially speaking you have to wonder how much time and effort Egg are going to put into fighting us. General opinion on this site is that the bank are charged a few hundred quid for each full investigation that is carried out.

 

There is a box on the FOS complaint form entitled "What do you want the business you’re complaining about to do, to put things right for you?". We have said:

1. Reduce the balance to zero

2. Remove adverse data from credit files

3. Agree to permanently cease debt collection activity

 

In a few weeks' time, the FOS will send a copy of our complaint to Egg and ask them whether they want to settle in line with our request, or whether they wish to go down the route of a full investigation.

 

I will keep you posted on what happens next.

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Could it be that your mis-sold PPI claim outweighs the alleged debt?

 

I would have thought that you could claim back the PPI premiums plus contractual interest without having to resort, to the FOS.

 

Furthermore, if the data as shown on your CRA files involves a value of money caused by the mis-selling of PPI, then the value of the alleged debt as stated is incorrect...Egg and/or their agent are processing incorrect data!

 

AC

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Could it be that your mis-sold PPI claim outweighs the alleged debt?

 

Yes it could be, so the easiest and cheapest thing for both parties is probably to call it quits (rather than other side pursue a court claim with no guarantee of success).

 

I would have thought that you could claim back the PPI premiums plus contractual interest without having to resort, to the FOS.

 

Perhaps, but if you mean file a court claim, we would prefer to be cautious. Some have lost in court against Egg on these kind of claims (see Scrambled Egg link above). The two powerful arguments against all of ours are 1) we may have clicked online to agree to this and 2) we may have enjoyed the benefit of a policy for x years without complaining until now.

 

Furthermore, if the data as shown on your CRA files involves a value of money caused by the mis-selling of PPI, then the value of the alleged debt as stated is incorrect...Egg and/or their agent are processing incorrect data!

 

AC

 

I think I remember reading somewhere on CAG that this is a hard argument to win because there is only an implied term that the data they share must be accurate, and that this is a case that needs to be clarified in the High Court. If you have given them permission to share data with the CRAs and they get it wrong 'by mistake' then do you really have a big case against them?

 

 

 

All of which means we are happy to kick this into touch via FOS for the meantime.

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I also will be watching with interest - I have sent SAR to egg about my credit card but have had no reply yet . I had a general income protection plan in place and can not even remember taking out PPI on the card - so will be interested to see what is in the SAR.


Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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So an update on where we are with this:

 

4 May 09 - Complaint sent to Financial Ombudsman (FOS).

 

13 May 09 - Acknowledgement of receipt sent back to us from FOS.

 

2 Oct 09 - Letter received from FOS:

"To enable us to consider your complaint further would you please provide a copy of the CCA (Consumer Credit Agreement) and the policy document".

 

11 Oct 09 - We wrote back to FOS saying we don't have either. We enclosed Egg's "true copy" of the CCA obtained last year via a Data Protection Act request. We said we were unable to send a copy of the policy document as we have never received it.

 

 

So this shows that the FOS may have a 5 month backlog for dealing with PPI complaints.

 

I find it strange that they are asking us for the paperwork, rather than asking Egg. How many consumers have all their paperwork from over 7 years ago? (well, actually I do, but this is my friend's case, and she - like most people - doesn't keep everything forever).

 

I read in the news recently that the FOS are upholding 99% of complaints against Egg at the moment. Let's hope we are not in the other 1%.

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A mixture of recent verdicts over at Forum/Legal-Issues including the second link, tried as a Test Case in the Mercantile Court. Court opinion seems to be edging towards the cardholder on PPI disputes now.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/179069-stebiz-cabot-appeal-5.html#post2469499

Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice

What A Day In Court-help Help

Why aren't more people using the CCA2006 Unfair Relationships Provisions? Am I missing something?


 

 

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Rather surprised to receive this letter while the FOS investigations are still ongoing.

 

If Moorcroft checked their records they would find that they sent us something rather similar on a Next Directory account earlier this year. Last time we proceeded quickly from their "pre-court division" to their 'white flag' division. I wonder if the same thing will happen again this time?

 

moorcrofteggcard.jpg

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A J Martin

Debt Recovery Manager

Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited

Pre-Court Division

P.O. Box No. 17

2 Spring Gardens

Stockport

SK1 4AJ

 

Dear A J Martin

 

Account XXXXXXXXXXXXX – IN DISPUTE

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX December 2009, which I received on XX December 2009.

 

This Egg Card account is subject to a two part dispute and is currently being investigated by the Financial Ombudsman.

 

In these circumstances, I am sure that you will agree that it is entirely inappropriate for a Debt Collection Agency such as Moorcroft to attempt to recover monies from an alleged debtor.

 

I will be making no payments to either you or Egg Banking, and I look forward to hearing that you have decided to close this account and return it to your client.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

XXXXXXXX

Edited by militantconsumer

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No word back from Moorcroft about whether they are still considering legal action.

 

In the meantime a letter from the Financial Ombudsman:

 

I am pleased to let you know that following our involvement, Egg Banking Plc has now agreed to make an offer to settle your complaint. Egg Banking Plc will be writing to you to explain the precise terms of its proposed settlement - however, it has told us that it will be based on the general approach that the Financial Ombudsman service takes when we decide that a consumer has been mis-sold a PPI policy.

 

There is much more detail in the letter, and we are asked to sign a full and final settlement form (without seeing the numbers???).

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No word back from Moorcroft about whether they are still considering legal action.

 

They have probably run out of departments to write to you. :D

 

 

In the meantime a letter from the Financial Ombudsman:

 

 

I am pleased to let you know that following our involvement, Egg Banking Plc has now agreed to make an offer to settle your complaint. Egg Banking Plc will be writing to you to explain the precise terms of its proposed settlement - however, it has told us that it will be based on the general approach that the Financial Ombudsman service takes when we decide that a consumer has been mis-sold a PPI policy.

 

There is much more detail in the letter, and we are asked to sign a full and final settlement form (without seeing the numbers???).

 

Ummm, you arent going to sign without knowing what you are going to get are you ??:rolleyes:


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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They have probably run out of departments to write to you.

We are waiting to get something from their white flag dept!

 

Ummm, you arent going to sign without knowing what you are going to get are you ??:rolleyes:

Certainly not! The FOS have asked us to return it by 22nd January, by which time they seem to believe that Egg will have given us details of the offer. Perhaps we should write back enclosing a copy of the Moorcroft letter and ask if that is what we are being offered?

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Perhaps we should write back enclosing a copy of the Moorcroft letter and ask if that is what we are being offered?

I would say definitely !! :grin:


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Hi

 

I got that letter but for First Plus. You have to sign it and send it back to the ombudsman before they (FP in my case) get in touch with numbrs. I kept hold of my letter for 2 weeks waiting for FP to get in touch then I rang the Ombudsman for direction when it got so close to the 2 week deadline.. Ring the FSO to check but I think I am right.

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Watching your thread with interest and hoping to have a full read later on.

 

i have got all my info from egg and dont know really where to start - so your case will be of great assistance to me.


Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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According to the FOS letter the ways in which they approach redress in different situations are based on:

1. Where the card account and the PPI are still in force

2. Where the card is still open but the PPI has been cancelled

3. Where the card account has been cleared and closed and the PPI has been cancelled

 

None of these are applicable as our situation is that the card account has not been cleared but is not still open either because Egg terminated the agreement due to a default.

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A bizarre response from the FOS. Here are the highlights:

 

Egg is not required to write to you at this stage and I am sorry if you have misunderstood our proposed offer letter to understand that Egg will be writing to you

 

Hmm, perhaps it was the letter from the FOS stating "Egg will be writing to you" that made us think that?!

 

Having discussed your account with Egg, it has stated that your account went to Moorcroft (debt collection agency) on XX December 2009 as no payments had been received on the account since March 2009 ..... Egg has stated that upon you confirming your acceptance of the offer, the account will be recalled back.

 

So the FOS think it is ok for Egg to pass a disputed account to a third party? And they think it is ok for Egg to say they will only recall it back when I agree to the mysterious offer?

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So we are thinking about sending the following in reply:

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX February 2010.

 

I, too, am sorry that I misunderstood your previous letter to understand that Egg would be writing to me. This misunderstanding appears to have arisen due to the inclusion of the sentence "Egg Banking Plc will be writing to you to explain the precise terms of its proposed settlement" in that latter.

 

You state that Egg passed this account to Moorcroft on XX December 2009 and will not recall it from that debt collection agency until I agree to their offer (the value of which they do not have to disclose until I have agreed to it).

 

I disputed this account with Egg in February 2009 due to the mis-sold PPI (and for other reasons). After Egg rejected my complaint I contacted the Financial Ombudsman Service on XX May 2009. Following your intervention, Egg appear to have decided that my complaint should be upheld and the PPI refunded.

 

To pass the account to Moorcroft in the meantime is a clear breach of the OFT guidance for debt collection and disputed accounts. To refuse to recall the account until I agree to an unknown offer might be considered 'psychological harrassment', a practice also banned under the OFT rules.

 

I am astonished that you have reported Egg's actions as if they are acceptable, and I would be grateful if you could reinvestigate this matter with the OFT guidance in mind.

 

Yours sincerely

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Haven't read the whole thread but BEWARE signing the FOS Settlement form, FOS upheld my ppi claim & sent the form for signing before going back to EGG.

 

The FOS assured me that by signing the form, EGG will write with a settlement figure for you to accept.

 

What did EGG do? They sent me a cheque for just under £800 in full & final settlement & stated that they have contacted the FOS to close the complaint, this was for a ppi claim of over £6,000.

 

Have written to Egg to get them to pay up the rest or it'll be court action for the balance.

 

Beachy

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So we are thinking about sending the following in reply:

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX February 2010.

 

I, too, am sorry that I misunderstood your previous letter to understand that Egg would be writing to me. This misunderstanding appears to have arisen due to the inclusion of the sentence "Egg Banking Plc will be writing to you to explain the precise terms of its proposed settlement" in that latter. (should that be letter):D

You state that Egg passed this account to Moorcroft on XX December 2009 and will not recall it from that debt collectionlink3.gif agency until I agree to their offer (the value of which they do not have to disclose until I have agreed to it).

 

I disputed this account with Egg in February 2009 due to the mis-sold PPI (and for other reasons). After Egg rejected my complaint I contacted the Financial ombudsmanlink3.gif Service on XX May 2009. Following your intervention, Egg appear to have decided that my complaint should be upheld and the PPI refunded.

 

To pass the account to Moorcroft in the meantime is a clear breach of the OFT guidance for debt collectionlink3.gif and disputed accounts. To refuse to recall the account until I agree to an unknown offer might be considered 'psychological harrassment', a practice also banned under the OFT rules.

 

I am astonished that you have reported Egg's actions as if they are acceptable, and I would be grateful if you could reinvestigate this matter with the OFT guidance in mind.

 

Yours sincerely

 

That should do the trick :lol: I would highlight the misleading sentence, either by bolding and italic or bringing it out into a block of its own.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I guess it could also be argued that any outstanding balance/debt was created because of the mis sold/applied PPI. Therefore any interest charges that were applied using that balance should also be removed.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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A response from the FOS

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I would have liked to discuss the complaint with you verbally, however have no valid contact number on file for you.

 

Your complaint form tells us that the resolution of this complaint would be for you to receive a PPI refund which Egg has agreed to.

 

I have consulted Egg on the matter and it has explained that the offer was erroneously proposed by them on this case, however they upheld the offer in light of the error being at their end.

 

 

Whilst it is not our process to request firms to calculate refunds prior to the signed acceptance being received, Egg have complied with my request and submitted the following calculations.

- Card Repayment Protection (CRP) premiums - £XXX.XX

- Interest calculated at 8% - £XXX.XX

- Total - £XXX.XX

I have attached a transaction list of the figures and can confirm that this amount will increase by a small amount to reflect the date change.

 

I understand that your card account had a number of months with no balance during the period in question and hence the premiums refund amount are not as high as expected; therefore, also reducing the interest refund element.

 

If you were to accept this offer, Egg will credit your card account and you would have a remaining balance of approximately £XX. Should you wish for Egg to bring your account back from the Debt Collection Agency, Moorcroft, Egg can do so and you will be able to clear the remainder debt directly with Egg. You can choose for your account to be retained with Moorcroft and make an arrangement with them if you prefer.

 

With regards to your comment about your account being forwarded to Moorcroft, I would like to state that whilst a complaint is ongoing we expect firms to cease debt collection activities, however considering complaints can on occasion continue for two to three years with our offices with an undetermined outcome it would be unreasonable to expect firms to cease debt collection proceedings on all cases with our office for prolonged periods.

 

Should you wish to reject the proposed offer and proceed with our full adjudication process, Egg has stated that it will withdraw its offer (as it was proposed in error) and defend the case.

 

I would like to point out that as yet your case has not been reviewed by an adjudicator within our organisation who has assessed the merits of your case. If the case file is allocated to an adjudicator, the adjudicator will complete an assessment and a formal view of whether they feel the PPI was indeed mis-sold to you by Egg. This process can take an indefinite amount of time and will be dependent on the volume of cases currently being forwarded to the concerned adjudication teams.

 

I have noted your dissatisfaction with the process and with Egg’s customer service levels and have attempted to provide you further clarity. I would be grateful if you could respond on the matter and advise on how you wish to proceed. Kindly note if the offer is acceptable to you, we will require a copy of the signed acceptance form as per our correspondence dated X January 2010.

 

Should you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact me or a member of my team to discuss the issue further.

 

Yours sincerely,

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The FOS are as bad as the creditors in wanting to discuss things on the phone, thereby not having any paper record of what is said. Leaving it open for them to later say that there was a "misunderstanding":(

 

Have you seen AuntieP's post in the "FOS complaint" thread ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2789923.html

 

The OP took part in the Hunt review and has linked to their contribution. Very interesting on how the FOS accept the Creditors calculations without ever having seen them :rolleyes:


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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