bristow and sutor

[bluestwo]

Hi everyone I have a problem with b&s bailiffs so I am hoping someone can help.

I have a debt for c/t which when passed to the bailiffs stood at 1276.25

They turned up I let him in which I now was silly but I can’t turn the clock back. They charge me on that day – 61.00 levy fee 12.00 walking possession fee and 24.50 redemption fee.

He tells me I have to make a payment of 73.00 and further payments of £200 a month which I told him I couldn’t afford but he just shrugged his shoulders.

I make the £73 payment and then a £110 payment the following month but didn’t make anymore. I get home from work one day to find a note pushed through the door saying a bailiff removal team had called the balance now said I owe £1420.31 but it didn’t say anything about fees added I then make regular payments but was sometimes a little late but I always got in touch to explain and everything was ok then a payment was £10.00 short which wouldn’t have been but because of their 4 % charge for debit card payments I was a few pounds short in my bank so I thought it would be better to pay most of it and the 10.00 that it was short the following payday but a week later a bailiff turned up to remove my goods he stood there threatening and in the end I told him to take what he wanted he then gave me a removal letter which said he would accept £150 a month but had charged a 230 fee

I have got an itemised statement from b&s its says I have paid a total of 1263.75 they have added 557.50 in fees which includes two van/abortive removal fees plus 30 in debit card fees and £701.25 has been paid to the council I still owe £600 which is 575.50 to council and £24 in fees.

I have read that they can only charge you twice for a removal van and the second time they must take the items but I have been charged but they didn’t take the items in fact he didn’t have any intentions of doing, but I don’t know what I can actually do about it, could I get these fees back?

Also when they sent the statement there is another debt been added for this year (this is because the council wouldn’t help me out even when I went to see them personally to explain I couldn’t pay bailiffs and this years at the same time) do they have to gain entry again for this other debt or can they just break in because they have entered for the last one?

I’m really sorry for the long post and hope someone can help me sort this

[ambershadow]

Oh Dear if its the same bailiffs you have signed a walking possession I think they can

 

But I think you need to wait for someone with more experience with this

 

perhaps tomtubby will be along soon

 

 

 

 

I am sure the fee's are not right though

[chris600uk]

have a debt for c/t which when passed to the bailiffs stood at 1276.25

They turned up I let him in which I now was silly but I can’t turn the clock back. They charge me on that day – 61.00 levy fee 12.00 walking possession fee and 24.50 redemption fee.

 

Have you checked to see if the bailiff had a valid certificate to collect for b&s on the day he made the levy?

 

 

I have got an itemised statement from b&s its says I have paid a total of 1263.75 they have added 557.50 in fees which includes two van/abortive removal fees plus 30 in debit card fees and £701.25 has been paid to the council I still owe £600 which is 575.50 to council and £24 in fees.

 

They can't charge for not taking goods - the law does not allow them to just turn up with a van and take them anyway - they have to give you notice that includes a date and a time.

 

They can charge £1.00 maximum for each debit card transaction.

 

 

Ok, so you should have received a copy of schedule 5 of the council tax enforcement regulations, from which you can work out what they should have charged you.

[bluestwo]

thanks for the quick reply

I didn't check if they had a certificate never thought to.

I can't remember if I had notice of the first time they called with a van I don't think they did I have all the letters and notices they have sent me I will have a look to make sure, but I do know they defently didn't give me notice the second time as it was not that long ago.

So what can I do about it the council are not interested and I don't know where to start with a letter?

Also I thought the council had to give you two weeks notice that they had passed the debt on I only got 8 days from the date of the letter to them calling, this can be proved by dates on the letters I have.

Because of the second debt they have put my payment up by £85 per month to £235 per month which I can not afford so I am frightened they will call again.

[chris600uk]

So what can I do about it the council are not interested and I don't know where to start with a letter?

 

This is a bit of a dogs dinner really.

 

I would start from the beginning and make a polite but formal complaint about each item, separately.

 

Begin a with a series of emails and letter writing about 3-4 days apart, do it in an organised fashion, treat it like a military campaign, so that it all comes together in a credible form 4 complaint.

 

Don't expect them to respond to the first letters, but by the time they've received the 3rd, 4th, 5th they'll have spent a lot of time reading about their mistakes and it will begin to occur to them that you're no longer a pushover, and that this might end badly for their bailiff.

 

Each complaint should take the form of an email to the bailiffs cc'd to the council tax dept, the head of the council tax dept, your local councillor and your MP, back it up with a hard copy sent recorded delivery to the bailiffs.

 

Have a template set up so all you have to do is change the date, and change the content.

 

1st letter should be about the first visit

2nd letter should be about the second visit

3rd letter should be in response to their response to the 1st letter, etc.

 

By the time two or three weeks have gone by you will have become the most expensive item of administration by far, and you will have their full attention - so by the time you threaten a form 4 complaint they will take it seriously, if they haven't done something about it already.

 

if you go through my link you will see that all my letters follow a pattern

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/120845-rossendales-final-reminder-i.html

[chris600uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1285540.html

 

This link might save a bit of time

[bluestwo]

Thanks again please don’t get annoyed but to just make sure before I start could you just confirm these points

I should have been given two weeks notice from the date of the letter from the council to the bailiff calling is this the law?

This call is classed as a first visit and those charges he charged was correct

(Not sure what a redemption fee is)

The second visit was with a van which he charged me 230 for but set up another arrangement (under his terms) according to the list of fees the council sent me they can charge you reasonable cost for one visit with a van

The third visit was with a van again I was charged another 230 and another arrangement was set up, should he have taken my items then and not set up another agreement?

I should have only been charged £1.00 max per card transaction even though it says 4% on their website and letters.

Also one more sorry to be a pain but what do I do about payments do I still keep paying or stop for the moment.

Again thanks I have to leave the computer now but will check back tomorrow so I can get the ball rolling.

[ambershadow]

Send this one to the bailiffs with you filling in your details

 

re: YOUR ADDRESS

 

YOUR COUNCIL appears to have instructed you to recover unpaid council tax from me.

 

This letter gives you notice that you are not being given peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as you demanded because it is unrealistic. I have sent an affordable payment direct to the council along with a written schedule of repayments.

 

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property, the law says I have to settle the debt; it does not obligate me to do business with you. If you suggest to me otherwise I will automatically report you to the police and you may receive a criminal record.

 

I AM NOT REFUSING TO PAY THIS DEBT.

 

Meanwhile please provide me with a written breakdown of your fees you have demanded and put it through the letterbox and quietly leave the property. If your fees are found to contradict Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 I will automatically file a Form 4 complaint against you at your certificating court for attempting to defraud me under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

This document was sent to you recorded delivery to the above address and a copy was sent to HEAD OF council tax Recovery Dept.

 

Please also supply me with a breakdown of the fee's you have charged me

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

 

AND THIS ONE obviously fill in your details to the council and enclose a payment plan that you can afford for the ct you owe

 

Re: your details

On DATE I was visited by your bailiff collecting unpaid council tax who overcharged me with his fees. We were unable to reach an amicable resolve and the bailiff showed threatening behaviour and became vexatious in nature. I also received a letter stating I should pay WHAT THEY ASKED YOU per month to clear the debt which is unrealistic with my present financial state.

 

I now ask the council to:

 

a) Take the case back from the bailiff.

b) Accept my original offer to pay £10.00 extra of what I pay already a week to clear the arrears

c) Pay me a reasonable compensation for my inconvenience and for my efforts in seeking discovery of information and

d) Receiving an over-zealous bailiff acting for you making unrealistic demands of money.

 

If you fail to satisfactorily complete the above I will automatically escalate the complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman in=2 0fourteen days from the date of this letter.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as demanded by the bailiffs and I will make payment of £10.00 each week for 249 weekly installments with a final installment of £9.80 This may seem a long time but it's all I can afford and allows me to pay future liabilities without falling into arrears. I confirm I am not refusing to pay this debt.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it to be served on you by the ordinary course of Recorded post in the meaning of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

[chris600uk]

Thanks again please don’t get annoyed but to just make sure before I start could you just confirm these points

 

I couldn't get annoyed, I've been just where you are now, full of uncertainty, wanting to believe that bailiffs and council workers have lied to me, but afraid that they actually do have the law on their side.

 

And that is exactly what they count on.

 

 

I should have been given two weeks notice from the date of the letter from the council to the bailiff calling is this the law?

 

By law, the local authority must give you 14 days written notice that the Liability Order is being transferred to their relevant bailiff company for collection. This is from tomtubbys commercial website, and she knows her stuff.

 

 

first visit and those charges he charged was correct (Not sure what a redemption fee is)

 

Neither am I, so I'd suspect it's not correct unless someone I trust tells me different.

 

The second visit was with a van which he charged me 230 for but set up another arrangement (under his terms) according to the list of fees the council sent me they can charge you reasonable cost for one visit with a van

 

I think you mean section 1A of schedule 5 shown in this link here?The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

Well here's a newsflash for the bailiffs, 1A doesn't say that anymore

The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006

 

 

The second visit was with a van which he charged me 230 for but set up another arrangement (under his terms) according to the list of fees the council sent me they can charge you reasonable cost for one visit with a van

The third visit was with a van again I was charged another 230 and another arrangement was set up, should he have taken my items then and not set up another agreement?

 

If he didn't remove anything, then he can't charge for removal, and definitely not for a third visit.

 

I should have only been charged £1.00 max per card transaction even though it says 4% on their website and letters.

 

I'm told that there is case law to support the £1.00 maximum, Ambershadow had some info as I recall - don't believe anything on a councils website unless it agrees with the law, or tomtubbys website or insolvency org

 

Also one more sorry to be a pain but what do I do about payments do I still keep paying or stop for the moment.

 

At this point keep paying, until you've got the ball rolling, what you're looking for is the council calling a halt to enforcement while your complaints are investigated - you don't want to give them any excuse right now.

[ambershadow]

Yes I think it was a thread tt replied to with the 1.00 fee its no more

[Heathliver]

There has been a ruling stating that a bailiff can not charge for the use of a credit card (December 2007). As far as I know this also applies to Debit cards but TT was waiting for this to be clarified. I know this ruling does not apply to High Court Enforcement Officers but the threat of taking a credit card charge for taxing was enough to make them refund it.

[bluestwo]

omg can you lot believe I wrote to bristow and sutor about charging me for the second removel with a van fee and asked them to remove it and they have wrote back apologising for there mistake and heve refunded it no arrguments or lies just refunded it, that has just made my day thankyou everyone for your advice with out you i wouldn't have done it. x

[charlenescott]

hi all.

i need some help i to owe money to my local council and its alot £4000 but i found it hard to keep up my council tax payments and over the years and charges from bistow and sutor it all adds up any way here is my story.

 

in june 2007 b&s turned up and i open the door and let them in only because he told me i had to as he had the law on his side so i did and i also had to pay £278 that day, i made an greement to pay £200 amonth but i was 1 day late paying it and they cancel the agreement and said that there coming for my belongings any way i had to move house and they found me 12month later and ive been trying to come to an agreement with them but they keep stating that i have to pay £940 amonth i cant afford that kind of money.

i have even offerd my child benifit money but thats not good enough (297 amonth ) they have been back about 5times now and keep pushing the letters though my door stating that a removel team come today to remove my goods.

the thing is i dont have half of what they levied on can they still take things that they havent listed and thay also now that i have a disabled daughter and they even tryed to take that can someone please help me i dont what to do i have even wrote to the courts for help amd the council dont want to know.

[chris600uk]

omg can you lot believe I wrote to bristow and sutor about charging me for the second removel with a van fee and asked them to remove it and they have wrote back apologising for there mistake and heve refunded it no arrguments or lies just refunded it, that has just made my day thankyou everyone for your advice with out you i wouldn't have done it. x

Now you know how Moses must have felt as the waters parted

[chris600uk]

hi all.

i need some help i to owe money to my local council and its alot £4000 but i found it hard to keep up my council tax payments and over the years and charges from bistow and sutor it all adds up any way here is my story.

 

in june 2007 b&s turned up and i open the door and let them in only because he told me i had to as he had the law on his side so i did and i also had to pay £278 that day, i made an greement to pay £200 amonth but i was 1 day late paying it and they cancel the agreement and said that there coming for my belongings any way i had to move house and they found me 12month later and ive been trying to come to an agreement with them but they keep stating that i have to pay £940 amonth i cant afford that kind of money.

i have even offerd my child benifit money but thats not good enough (297 amonth ) they have been back about 5times now and keep pushing the letters though my door stating that a removel team come today to remove my goods.

the thing is i dont have half of what they levied on can they still take things that they havent listed and thay also now that i have a disabled daughter and they even tryed to take that can someone please help me i dont what to do i have even wrote to the courts for help amd the council dont want to know.

 

Charlene, you really need to start your own thread -- but to answer your questions:

 

You don't say what your personal situation is; but if you are a single parent caring for disabled daughter then you may fall into the category of "vulnerable person". On that basis alone the bailiffs should hand the account back to the council.

 

I hope you now know that bailiffs have no right of entry unless you have left them into your house before, and as they haven't been into present house you don't have to let them in. You should keep all letters that they have given you. They can't levy in June 2007 and rely upon that seizure in March 2009 because they will have abandoned the 2007 seizure. So they can't come into your house and take anything. In my opinion if you want to pay anyone, pay the council direct online.

 

Please start your own thread, and please tell us a bit more about your situation -- minus identifying details of course.