Natwest Loan CCA - Whats wrong with it? Can You spot it?!!

[BeerFun]

Ok, guess that the position is still that they had me sign a loan that porported to be covered under CCA76 but which infact wasnt and therefore is void and un-enforceable.

 

I will send off a letter to Natwest laying this out and will wait and see what this stirs up, as its a complaint, they will have 10 days to answer.

[Sparkie1723]

Ok, guess that the position is still that they had me sign a loan that porported to be covered under CCA76 but which infact wasnt and therefore is void and un-enforceable.

 

I will send off a letter to NatWest laying this out and will wait and see what this stirs up, as its a complaint, they will have 10 days to answer.

 

They had you sign "a loan agreement"..

The question one was it this one.

To prove you did and to be able to enforce it on this aspect alone...they must produce the original with your signature on ...not a copied signature.

 

Its over the limit..............their mistake ..their fault...their hard luck ....you want all your money back.

 

sparkie

[paulwlton]

They had you sign "a loan agreement"..

The question one was it this one.

To prove you did and to be able to enforce it on this aspect alone...they must produce the original with your signature on ...not a copied signature.

 

sparkie

 

This is a copy of my original loan agreement CMS recreated after forwarding recreations of "loans that didn't exist". it is plain and obvious that this is the work of one person. Now the only way that your agreement could be genuine is if the person recreating the agreements worked at the branch you took the loan out at in 2002....think about it?

 

Who agrees?

 

Edited January 20, 2009 by paulwlton

[tumble]

Just come across this post - I had a loan with Natwest , which I settled , then when the bank charges issue came about noticed some irregularities in the interest charges so requested a copy of the loan agreemant which they could not produce so I reclaimed the payments that had been made. Im just wondering now in the absence of the loan agreemant how they actually calculated the settlemant figure which was paid to clear the loan.

 

Tumble

[tinkerbell20]

This is a copy of my original loan agreement CMS recreated after forwarding recreations of "loans that didn't exist". it is plain and obvious that this is the work of one person. Now the only way that your agreement could be genuine is if the person recreating the agreements worked at the branch you took the loan out at in 2002....think about it?

 

Who agrees?

 

 

 

Looks the same handwriting to me:eek:

[BeerFun]

Need to get a hand writing expert to do an analysis, that would prove it!

[paulwlton]

Need to get a hand writing expert to do an analysis, that would prove it!

 

I believe your local economic crime unit will know a hand writing specialist.

 

Paul

[bizzib]

HI All,

I can't wait to see what they are going to send me now...

 

 

Bizzi

[toto003]

Hi there, sorry to "butt in" on your thread, but I think we are in a very similar situation.

 

I have outlined in the Legal Issues section (here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/178390-credit-agreements-over-25k.html)

 

My opinion on this matter, and I have had some well qualified advice that indicates it could be a strong argument.

 

1. It is the Banks paperwork - and they place it under the auspices of the act and therefore waive their right for it to be "unregulated"

2. If (1) isn't true and a judge were to rule that it _IS_ an unregulated agreement, then it (by virtue of the heading "CCA Regulated Agreement") is certainly a "prospective regulated agreement".

3. In either case, under section 173, The term (or prescribed term if you like or statement of amount of credit) is inconsistent with the regulations set down by the act (in this case the limit.

4. Section 173 clearly states that any term or statement that is inconsistent is void.

 

Furthermore - under s172 - under a s77-79 request - any statement made by the creditor is legally binding.

 

Ipso facto - Your loan agreement does not contain the prescribed term of a credit limit, (because the term itself is void).

 

Can ANYONE please find a flaw in this argument ?!!

[icklelady]

Should the maximum loan be £25000?

[BeerFun]

I have spoken to Trading Standards and they stated that though the amount on the agreement was above £25000, the agreement still stands as NatWest will be held to the agreements Terms and Conditions.

 

Basically it means that NatWest would be held to the CCA conditions by the courts despite the amount.

 

Unfortunately it also means that we are bound by agreement despite the amount.

 

However, there are other terms missing on my CCA agreement, so not giving up yet!

[shakespeare62]

Any more RBS? Narwest handwritten agreements out there

 

Oh yes ... heres' an example of how to misrepresent a 30K loan by RatsNest :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/183190-shoosmiths-cc-summons-cca-2.html#post1980233

 

http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/ASphotos11309/?action=view&current=CCAresponse2.jpg

Edited February 17, 2009 by shakespeare62

[BeerFun]

Oddly enough, Natwest seem to be ignoring all my letters requesting clarification of the CCA they sent. Think that they are hoping that I will go away.

 

As I have a tomlin agreement with them, I think that I will apply to the court for a stay on the basis that they dont have a valid CCA.

 

Will see what their defence is to that ie: if they claim they have, then use that to force a true copy, if they sya they dont, then seek a strike out of the loan!

[paulwlton]

Oddly enough, Natwest seem to be ignoring all my letters requesting clarification of the CCA they sent. Think that they are hoping that I will go away.

 

As I have a tomlin agreement with them, I think that I will apply to the court for a stay on the basis that they dont have a valid CCA.

 

Will see what their defence is to that ie: if they claim they have, then use that to force a true copy, if they sya they dont, then seek a strike out of the loan!

 

They've failed to supply a true copy....where's the terms and conditions?

[paulwlton]

The second ploy, we hear on the grapevine, is that they take your signature, when you write to the lender requesting a copy of the

Interesting.

 

 

Consumer Credit Agreement, and copy it onto a generic agreement. (Or if we do it for you, they take the signature from your consent form which we send to the lender.) This agreement is sent to you as the ‘original’. In fact it’s a forgery. A word of advice: if you have a little used signature, send that one off to them instead and see which one comes back on THEIR ‘original’ agreement.

[Khadzay]

Hi

 

I think Im another one of their victims, I CCA RBS and within the time limit, they sent me a what can only be described as a faxed microfiche photcopy. If you look carefully, the Customer duty of care checklist is signed, they have sent me terms and conditions, which is not signed by them nor is it dated by them, however its signed in the customer box, though the signature is different to the duty of care check list, the signature on the T&C I used when I last corresponded with them, and this signature was done deliberately.

 

The last sheet which they have sent me, is the financial information, if you could see what they have sent, is in a different type paper and looks recent in comparison to the other two.

 

Take a look, see what you think

 

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[Khadzay]

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[Khadzay]

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[JonCris]

Did you deliberately sign your SAR of CCA request using a 'unique' signature??

[paulwlton]

It is plain and obvious that all the agreements posted so far on this thread are the work of one person... this person resides at CMS TELFORD.

 

Paul

[Khadzay]

It wasnt for a subject access request or CCA, i was writing to them telling them I cannot pay the agreed amount, and this letter went to Credit Management services.. Telford. Im 100% sure they received it as 2 days later Apex Credit Management (DCA) contacted me mentioning my latest correspondance. And that is when I used a unique signature, i.e My first name is S and surname is I, the "fake" I used was SP in a scroll, work that out. Is there anyway I can show someone on here the 2 sheets with the different signature, without comprising security.

[Khadzay]

I have scrutinised the Credit Agreement they have sent me and quote a paragraph from the Agreement. T&C Para 15. ss (a) The provison of the agreement to the customer is not a commitment by the Bank to lend. The bank will not be obliged to provide the loan until a) THE AGREEMENT IS SIGNED ON BEHALF OF THE BANK.

 

I cannot see any signature on behalf of the bank, apart from on the Loan Customer Duty Care Check list, which is intialled. This I take is seperate to the actual Credit Agreement.

[Sparkie1723]

I have scrutinised the Credit Agreement they have sent me and quote a paragraph from the Agreement. T&C Para 15. ss (a) The provison of the agreement to the customer is not a commitment by the Bank to lend. The bank will not be obliged to provide the loan until a) THE AGREEMENT IS SIGNED ON BEHALF OF THE BANK.

 

I cannot see any signature on behalf of the bank, apart from on the Loan Customer Duty Care Check list, which is intialled. This I take is seperate to the actual Credit Agreement.

 

I agree......therfore the Bank MUST have Given you the money;)

 

sparkie

[Khadzay]

Ye of little of faith Sparkie

 

Why is it when the banks do something wrong, (illegal) its seen as a admin error when the consumer goes against the admin error, it seen as " we will strike you down, how dare you take us on" Who are you, dont you know who we are.

[Sparkie1723]

If they GAVE it you its a gift ...you don't have to pay it back........if they'd have given it to "my Mrs" ....they would never get it back ....I DON'T anyway!!!! :D:D

 

sparkie