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Cap1 problem


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Hi everyone, I’m wondering if anyone can help me out please.

 

I’m helping my stepson with his finances at the moment, and am getting rather stuck.

 

Basically we sent a cca request late(ish) last year. Received a blank agreement off them after the 12+2.

 

So we sent them the account in dispute letter on the 23rd nov.

Fast forward a couple of weeks, and we get this letter.. Apologies, but I’m unable to scan the letter, so have typed it out word for word...

 

 

Thanks you for writing back to me about your request for us to provide you with a true copy of your credit agreement.

 

I can assure you that we have provided you with the current credit agreement, which is in compliance with section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974. In light of this, I won’t be able to send any different documentation to support your request.

 

In accordance with section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 and the consumer credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulation 1983, we have sent you a true copy of your original agreement, and if any terms have been varied, then the copy agreement included the updated terms. in addition, your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature were omitted from the copy provided, as permitted under Regulation 3 of the consumer credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulation 1983.

 

I can confirm to you that your credit agreement complies with the consumer credit act 1974 and is in the correct format.

 

You clearly have a valid and enforceable credit agreement with Capital One, as evidenced by these documents and any claim to the contrary will be strongly defended.

 

In your letter you’ve also requested detailed information regarding our costs and accounting. I’m afraid I’m unable to give you a full breakdown of this as it is confidential business information.

 

We do not consider contacting you to reclaim your outstanding balance harassment. We call you to see if we can help in any way. We have a duty to keep you up to date with the status of your account, and don’t feel these calls are unreasonable. We also reserve the right to contact you in methods that we believe appropriate, this may include the utilization of debt collection agencies.

 

I understand that under section 10 of the Data Protection Act, you want Capital One to cease processing your data. You are not entitled to serve a notice under section 10 due to the fact that:

 

·Capital One informed you when you applied for your credit card and in the terms of your agreement how your data would be processed and you gave consent to the processing of your data by signing your credit card agreement;

 

·The processing of your data is necessary to enable Capital One to perform its obligations under your credit agreement; and

 

·The processing is neceassary for the legitimate interests of Capital One and the credit reference and fraud prevention agencies to which it is disclosed and is not likely to prejudice your legitimate rights, freedoms or interests.

 

The information commissioner has confirmed that it is appropriate for lenders to share information about customer’s accounts with the credit reference agencies and that it is appropriate for the credit reference agencies to retain this data for six years after the account was last active.

 

Your notice is entirely unjustified and inappropriate and as a result, Capital One is unable to comply with your notice.

 

You stated you feel your account is in dispute. I would like to advise that we do not consider the account to be in dispute as we have fulfilled on what you have already requested. Therefore, we will continue to pursue the outstanding balance.

 

To address your claim that we have not provided you with a signed statement, I can confirm that our previous response detailed the status of the account, as well as the outstanding balance due and information on the payments required to maintain the account.

 

(It then foes on about if we want to get a Subject Access Request and how to go about it)….

 

Your account remains behind with payments and over limit, and the amount currently due and payable is £xxxx.xx

 

We will continue to pursue the outstanding debt and do not consider this account to be in dispute, therefore would remind you that you are bound by the terms and conditions of your credit agreement and are obliged to maintain payments and repay your outstanding balance. If proceedings were commenced by you on the basis that there is no enforceable agreement between us, we would strongly defend this.

 

(Then goes on to say, it’s their final response)...

 

 

SS lives with his grandparents, and was getting a substantial amount of calls off Cap1, we sent off the harassment letter. They were still getting far too many calls, so we sent off the this is not my phone, its for use by others.. (Sorry forget the name of the template letter). This seems to of worked, and the calls have stopped.. for now....

 

Yesteray SS gets a default notice from Cap1. Can they do this when the accounts in dispute?

 

Also, could anyone please tell me, the next step to take with these jokers.

 

We have informed CD, and TS, waiting on their response(s).

 

Thanks for reading.

 

be safe

 

JGG

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Capital One never have agreements - they are just sad altogether and their letter is their usual bull. If you search through recent postings about Crapone on site you will find the appropriate letters to send and advice from others about how to proceed. Don't worry - they haven't got a legal leg to stand on.

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Hi again, a quick question. I've been looking into where cap1 mention the "Regulation 3 of the consumer credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulation 1983"

and think that this applies to to the newer online electronic agreements where electronic signatures by way of a "tick" box are acceptable, instead of a physical signature on paper.

Now i know, that this 'application / agreement' was not done online, as it was taken out many years ago.

 

So does the CN & CD regus 1983 apply to this account?

thanks again, sorry for asking so many questions

be safe

JGG

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They are required to send you a true copy of the original agreement on request and it's obvious they don't have one - all this about Regulation 3 is them trying to bamboozle you with law irrelevant law. They haven't supplied you with a copy, they are in default of your request, and the account is in dispute - end of. Their letter is drivel. Until such times as they produce a copy of your agreement they are not permitted to pursue you for payment and tell them you will have no further correspondence with them until they do. That puts the ball firmly back in their court. From there they may pass it to their in-house DCA Debitas and they can have the same reply. Let them worry about it, not you. By the way, if the letter was signed Ellie Renshaw there is a feeling on the forum she doesn't actually exist!:D

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hi pinky

 

thanks for the advice. its the default notice that's bothering me, ie how can they still be adding charges, interest etc, when the accounts clearly been in default for a couple of months, and now also send a default notice to my SS.

 

Also speaking to SS earlier, they have been literally pounding on the charges on a monthly basis, so now thinking of sar'ing them, to see what that would bring on, and if needed, take that further too..

 

any thoughts??

 

have a great weekend

 

be safe

 

JGG

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That letter you have received from the (non-existent) Ellie Renshaw is just another one of Crap One's meaningless templates. I don't believe they have yet found an employee who knows enough two syllable words for them to be able to write a proper individualised letter.

 

"We don't consider the account to be in dispute". Right. I don't consider black to be darker than white.

 

If the account holder is disputing the status of the account, it is in dispute. That is fact, and no amount of smoke and mirrors from these empty headed windbags will change that.

 

Crap One are just a printed diarrhoea factory. None of the words they print on their useless letters have any meaning, or relevance to reality.

 

You should definitely check that default notice to see if it is compliant. If it isn't, whatever you do don't alert them to the fact. Let them terminate on the back of it and shoot themselves in the foot.

 

As for that idiotic letter, you probably do need to answer it, because this may end up in court. I have written letters to Crap One in my time, long before I discovered CAG. Knowing what I know now, I would probably make them slightly more polite, but the meaning would remain unaltered.

 

As they are quoting erroneous law at you, if you quote genuine, accurate law at them, you may score brownie points with any judge who analyzes the letters.

 

SH

 

PS Does anyone care if Ellie Renshaw exists or not? If the brain is missing, as it clearly is, there is not much point worrying about the rest of the lump of meat.

All opinions of ScabHunter are offered in good faith and believed to be accurate and true. Please note, though, that I have no legal training and am human like the rest of us (except the DCA trolls).

 

If you have received court papers, PLEASE POST EARLY. We can help, but only if we are within the timescales.

 

I am happy to receive PMs (and friendship requests!), but if you want me to look at your thread please leave a link to it.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to click the old scales!

 

____________________________________________________

 

LIGHT RELIEF - SCABHUNTER STYLE

 

A reply to a DCA troll with a limited vocabulary

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/131409-cheekiness-towards-dca-199.html#post1840093

 

A template letter accepting a full and final settlement

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/104668-cabot-windywoo-4.html#post1813490

 

A reply to ARE letter dated 13th November 20088

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172657-mbna-letter-asking-me.html#post1863523

 

A reply to a naughty DCA suggesting that the alleged debtor was ignoring the poor dears, and promising a nice social visit

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167422-help-needed-re-letters-3.html#post1850119

 

 

 

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Check the "default notice" - does it say "Statement of Default"? - that's what I got from them and it is no more a legal default notice than fly in the air. If you look around again on recent posts you will see posts on default notices and what they need to be lawful. If they have sent you a faulty default notice and terminated the account, you've won. They cannot take enforcement action anyway because they don't have an agreement but if they say they do, which would be their counter-argument, they have shot themselves in the foot both ways because they cannot terminate an account without sending a valid default notice first. In law this means they could not claim the capital, only any arrears. It's an academic argument anyway because there is no agreement so they cannot claim anything. They should not pursue for payment without a valid agreement but that won't stop them - banks and DCAs just ignore laws. Once they pursue me with no valid agreement, I go straight to their complaints department. The laws they are in breach of are the CCA 1974, the Adminstration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40, The CPUTR 2008 and OFT guidelines - and send a copy to the OFT for their information. They don't deal with individual complaints but they note any unlawful bahaviour on the bank's files and it comes up when they come to renew the bank's consumer credit license. If CrapONE then pass it on to anther agency, including their own in-house agency Debitas, they will also be in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.

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Have you not heard from Capquest??

 

This is what I sent them (after an initial 'go away' letter) they persisted,

so I sent this in September 08.

Not heard a peep since..

 

Dear Capquest...

This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated XXth September 2008.

The contents of which have been duly noted.

To make things crystal clear, and to reiterate my previous letters to you both, yourselves and Capital One have failed to comply with your statutory obligations.

Since the statutory time limit for supplying me with a correct copy document has now been far exceeded, I must advise you that you are not entitled to enforce any alleged agreement against myself and that you have also committed a criminal offence under the Consumer Credit Act.

Furthermore, you should remember that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear legal dispute and therefore the following applies:

 

• You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any

payment to you.

• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

• You may not pass this account to any third party.

• You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the

credit reference agencies.

• You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

Be warned, the CCA 1974 is clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. If there is no agreement, as in this case, then you cannot issue a default, as I have not breached any valid, regulated agreement.

 

I look forward to your final decision on this complaint within 14 days. This should include your proposed actions in relation to the lack of a credit agreement.I therefore expect no further communication from you in respect of this matter.

However, as you are stressing that County Court proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact, stressing that proceedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account, I remind you of Civil procedure rules protocols.

 

You now have a requirement to provide me with:-

 

1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required.

 

2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:-

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to which you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footing, which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time, as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above, failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court. In addition, to the FOS, for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes. This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper.

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following:-

 

* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* Register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

* issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Furthermore, I reserve my right to make a copy of this, and all previous letters available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

Should you need further clarification on any of the above points, I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.

 

Please note my new address, as previously advised, anything you send elsewhere will not be received.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

Hopefully it's made them realise....

:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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