CCJ confusion

[Luminol]

(Moved this thread from Debt, because I think I posted there in error and it might be better to get help from the legal section)

 

Hi All,

 

I have received a statement today from an old RBS account which I have a CCJ against me for. The statement shows my payments which are for £2.00 a month and in addition they show interest being added to the account for the same period £1087.00.

 

My confusion is caused by the Judgment stating, 'The court has therefore decided the rate at which you should pay. You must pay the claimant £14647.87 for debt (and interest to the date of Judgment) and £250.00 costs'.

 

On the statement I received it states the balance as being £19584.72 DR, so how has the amount grown to this much?

 

I honestly thought a fixed debt would be manageable eventually, but if it keeps growing I can't see an end in sight. I wonder if Bankruptcy would be a better option?

 

Thanks

 

Lumi

[palomino]

If the judgment say that interest is payable to the date of judgment then that is all the interest that is payable.

If they are continuing to add interest then that is in breach of the judgment and you should write to them pointing this out (politely) as it sounds as if they have made a cock-up somewhere.

If they refuse to respond appropriately then go straight back to the court and ask how you can complain about them.

 

In any case you haven't paid more then the judgment amount - and at £2/month you won't for some considerable time yet (if you do then you will be older than Methuselah!) and won't be in a position to be bothered by it.

 

You could take the view that it's easier to continue paying the monthly £2 than to rock the boat and maybe make things worse.

[MARTIN3030]

Couple of questions.

1.When was judgement entered ? and did you attend ?

2.What was the total of the Judgement ?

3.What was this for (what does it relate to-and do you agree with the figures)

4.Who have you been paying the £2.00 a month to ?

5.This notice you have just got-when was this hearing and did you attend?

6.What date is on the notice ?

[Luminol]

Thanks for all your responses, Ok this was for a Bank account and loan and way before I found C.A.G. (my OH has debt issues and through CAG Ive prevented all of them going to court and any payments being made).

 

1.When was judgment entered ? and did you attend ?

 

14/07/2006, I didnt attend, just sent off, a can only pay £1.00 a month letter from National Debtline.

 

2.What was the total of the Judgement ?

 

£14,897.87

 

3.What was this for (what does it relate to-and do you agree with the figures)

Bank Loan and Overdraft, correct at time of hearing (probably alot of charges there too, but I didn't know about claiming them back then).

 

4.Who have you been paying the £2.00 a month to ?

 

Credit Management services, Kendal Court, Ironmasters Way Telford (In house RBS Debt Dept. I believe).

 

5.This notice you have just got-when was this hearing and did you attend?

 

The thing I have just got is a statement of the account, 1st one I have ever seen, hence me being confused at this increase, I believed that when my 2 year old went to school I could go to work, and pay off the amount, until I saw it had grown by £5000.

 

6.What date is on the notice ?

 

If you mean the statement, its undated, it says Balance forward etc Int to 15/sep 569.39 and int to 16/dec 518.48....

 

I have always made payments, but was totally unaware til last week when I received the statement that it was still going up.

 

My financial position still isn't great, my Husband works, nothing special though and I have no income at all. So don't know what would happen if they asked for more money off me at this time??? I'm just confused really and annoyed. RBS never sent me to DCA when I became unable to pay, it was straight to court

 

I am quite happy to follow this through, because I feel RBS are going against the Judge, and thats not fair, How can I ever clear this up at the rate they are adding interest.

 

Thanks again

Edited January 16, 2009 by Luminol
highlighting

[MARTIN3030]

Yes Kendal Court is their in house collection arm-I hae had a few run inns with these.

Its reasonable to assume that in addition to charges on this account,there would also have undoubtably been PPI.There could have been some breaches under the OFT guidelines on debt collection.

 

I suggest that you do two things.

1.Write to Kendal Court and request an explanation for the figures.Tell them that you want it explaned clearly and concisely.

 

2.Send a SAR for the full account details,to include statements,screenshots,communications with third parties,details of all interest/additional fees levied,etc etc.

The request will need to be clear and specific.

 

Its possible we could be talking of a considerable sum with the interest.

When was the account first opened-I mean roughly what years are we talking ?

[MARTIN3030]

Its likely that RBS will say that they will defend any action that you may take to recover charges,on the basis that you have been repaying them and didnt dispute them earlier.

However,the arguement here,is that you was unaware that the charges were unfair or unlawful,and have only recently become aware of that fact.

Personally I have not found these easy to deal with.My claim goes back to 2006,and concerns defaults and data protection issues.The case was stayed and I have had 3 applications to lift it refused-but I know that my time will come.....and so do they.

[Luminol]

Thanks Martin,

 

The account is approx 12 years old, I'm ok with the SAR request, I have a letter on file for that (do I send it to RBS head office or to Kendal Court?).

 

Any suggestions to the wording of the letter to explain the amounts and am I correct in thinking that they shouldn't of added any further interest to the account, as in was settled at 14k? because if thats the case I think I should mention that in the letter.

 

Last one! Whats the likelyhood of them taking me back to court to increase my payments?

 

Thanks again

 

Lumi

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks Martin,

 

The account is approx 12 years old, I'm ok with the Subject Access Request request, I have a letter on file for that (do I send it to RBS head office or to Kendal Court?).

 

Any suggestions to the wording of the letter to explain the amounts and am I correct in thinking that they shouldn't of added any further interest to the account, as in was settled at 14k? because if thats the case I think I should mention that in the letter.

 

Last one! Whats the likelyhood of them taking me back to court to increase my payments?

 

Thanks again

 

Lumi

 

 

Hi Lumi,

 

12 years is well outside Limitation,but can still be challenged on the basis of section 32.

The biggest problem may be them saying they dont have statements-although they MUST have transaction info since they would have needed it to get the CCJ presumably.

Send the SAR to RBS data protection-the address is in the contacts stickie in the RBS Forums.

 

As regards the letter to Kendal Court,I think that you will need to see a copy of the original order-did it grant them continued interest ?

Theres no reason why you should not ask for copies of this in your SAR.

 

You could make a request under the consumer credit act to Kendal Court,asking for a full breakdown of interest and any fees added since the CCJ,and ask to be given an explanation as to how these have been calculated.

You could of course say that you were not aware that interst on the account should still be accruing and ask them to justify the entitlement and legality of their rights to apply it.

keep a copy and send recorded.

 

Its not beyond reason or possibility that they will threaten Court action,but you can deal with this if they want to try.You should continue to maintain the payments meantime.

Certainly if it can be seen that they are taking any hostile or adverse action on account of you looking to recoer charges from THEM,then there is a route to follow to address this.

If you want a brief temp letter putting together,then let me know.

[Luminol]

Thanks again,

 

Ok, Would love help with the letter, I am going to go in the loft tomorrow, I'm quite good with paperwork and I may have kept a copy of the order, will let you know!

 

I dont understand why on the final decision from the court it mentions interest only to the Judgment date (are the court misleading me?), I can post this tomorrow with Photobucket (or I can try) if you'd like to see it,

 

For now I have bedtime stories to read, but I'll be back tomorrow, thanks again for your help, its really appreciated

 

Lumi

[MARTIN3030]

Ok Lumi-would be good if you can find it yes.

If you have probs uploading-then you can email it to me as file.

[Luminol]

Thanks Martin I'll speak to you tomorrow feel a bit better now !

[palomino]

Martin,

 

Since these purported interest and other charges are not part of the judgment [see post 1] then they are simply not pertinent and not payable. Full stop.

Any discussion about how they are calculated, or whether statements are available, is simply clouding the issue.

[Luminol]

Hi Guys, Blew off the cobwebs and found these, hope they help?

 

Thanks Lumi

 

Scrap this I cant see images, I'll try again!!

Edited January 17, 2009 by Luminol

[Luminol]

So guys, does the paragraph on the claim form that states:

 

'The claimant claims continuing interest at the relevant rate or alternatively pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date of issue until Judgment or sooner payment.'

 

mean that they should not be adding further interest? I'm not aware of the section 69 or what that bit means.

 

If you need anymore forms, I can get digging!

 

Thanks Lumi

[MARTIN3030]

Section 69 is the 8% interest that only the Court can award.

Actually its also discretionary-meaning that although you can ask for it-its not a foregone conclusion that the Court will award it-although in most cases it will.

 

 

So they should not be continuing to take this.

[MARTIN3030]

I am a little confused as to the discrepancy of the figures between those shown on the default notice-and those on the claim form.

The default notice shows-11 something ?

The claim form shows 14647.87

 

Ok granted theres 5 months between the default notice and claim issue....but it still doesnt appear to add up.

 

 

I will ask other site team members to take a peek for an opinion.

[MARTIN3030]

Martin,

 

Since these purported interest and other charges are not part of the judgment [see post 1] then they are simply not pertinent and not payable. Full stop.

Any discussion about how they are calculated, or whether statements are available, is simply clouding the issue.

 

 

In order to get to the bottom of this and properly advise,there have to be some questions.By nature of the interest being added without explanation-I think its fair to say that the issues were clouded BEFORE anything was posted.

It is of course up to the bank to prove any case if they were wanting to escalate this.

But its not unreasonable for the OP to want to see any paperwork-to help them to point out the shortcomings to the bank.

I certainly dont see this as "Rocking the boat and making things worse "

[Luminol]

Thanks Martin, I shall await your advice on the amounts and if you could help with my query letter I'd be grateful, but just to clarify, according to the Judgment, they should no longer be adding interest?

 

I will hang back with the SAR until we know the particulars of my complaint, if you think thats right.

 

Many Thanks in advance

 

Lumi

[Luminol]

Anyone had a peek yet

[MARTIN3030]

Lumi the account details are clearly showing !!!

[MARTIN3030]

For the benefit of those following-the statement shows 2x quarterly interest amounts;

 

To Sept 2008 £569.39

 

Sept 2008 to Dec 2008 £518.48

 

It does appear to equate to 8%.

 

So yes-there is the confirmation of this.

[Luminol]

oops sorry, im normally better than that,

 

[Luminol]

Sorry about the upload, so I suppose we can now get on with a letter to them advising that they shouldn't be adding interest, shall I draft one and post it up for your amendments?

 

Thanks Lumi

[Luminol]

Okay heres my attempt at a letter, I am not gifted with letter writing, so any help suggestions will be gratefully recieved!

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Reference:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for the statement I recently recieved from yourselves relating to account no xxxxxxxxx. This statement has brought to my attention an discrepancy relating to the interest applied to this account, as you are well aware the account in question is subject to a County Court Judgment.

 

The details of the judgment stated that 'The court has therefore decided the rate at which you should pay. You must pay the claimant £14647.87 for debt (and interest to the date of Judgment) and £250.00 costs'.

 

In light of the recent and only statement I have receieved it seems clear to me that you are still adding a substantial amount of Interest to this account regardless of the court ruling.

 

I would be grateful if you can advise me of your position in relation the account.

 

Many Thanks

 

Lumi

[Luminol]

Any help guys re the wording of the letter, want to get the ball rolling before the next £500.00 gets added

 

Thanks All

Lumi