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    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
    • I had exactly the same issues.   Grossly over estimated bills from January onwards.  Despite what they claim, they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base to keep the company in business.   They can dress it up how they like.  It’s irrelevant if they reconcile the bills the following month because they just over bill again thus keeping a rolling interest free loan.   it took two months of constant badgering to be finally moved to a fixed DD.   Once that was done I didn’t care how much they over-estimated by.   I had raised a query with the ombudsman over the billing fiasco and they readied a complaint should I wish to proceed.   I thought everything was sorted until May/June whereby I was allegedly more in debt then I was expecting to the tune of an extra months DD.   On querying it, it transpired that even though I was on a fixed monthly DD, because the bill was generated less than 5 days before the DD was due to be taken they didn’t take the DD.   They offered £5 compensation by way of apology but wanted to take two months DD in June.  I told them where to get off.   With appalling customer service,  bills that you need a Maths degree to follow, and I do have one and still struggled, inability to follow through on any agreements, constant gross over-estimation, the missed DD was the final straw and I proceeded with complaint to ombudsman.   Prior to getting to that stage I had to quote Symbio’s own complaints procedure to them to get any sort of response.   Their final offer to me was £25 goodwill and to waive an exit fee. The offer was derisory given the time it had taken to get things sorted and the continuing ineptitude.  Also, the whole thing has dragged on so long (5 months) I was already in the final 49 days of my contract and therefore there were no exit fees to pay and therefore nothing to waive.   Anyway, upshot is, ombudsman found in my favour.  Ordered an apology and a goodwill payment. Symbio appealed but were told the decision stood.   This week I received the goodwill payment.   I promptly left an honest and truthful review on trustpilot.   The next morning I received an email from Symbio with an apology.   This was followed an hour later with an email from trustpilot saying Symbio had replied to the review.  On reading the response they have accused me of not following procedure and of cyber bullying.   The company is a complete joke.
    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
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Struggling with catalogue accounts

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Don't ask me, I have given up trying to understand how these people think, lol.


CCA is not my field of expertise, I must admit so I am probably not the best person to advise on that, but it seems to me Summanotre's advice is spot on.


Gezwee, you're thinking of the Limitations Act 1980, and it's only relevant if you have had no payment, contact or other acknowledgment of the debt in the last 6 years (5 in Scotland).

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All the companies you have mentioned come under Shop Direct Group. I have written to each catalogue (or their agents separately) asking for CCA's - none of them can supply one; in fact I recieved an odd looking statement from Bryan Carter & Co (*yawn*) on behalf of Littlewoods. When Littlewoods or whoever under the Shop Direct Group threatened me with a home visit, I deliberately stayed in - didnt contact them about it, nothing, just waited and no one showed up.


They are using every scare tactic in the book on you (been there and still there in some instances). Dont make contact regarding a mutual agreement yet. Wait and see if they have your cca, follow the proceedures posted around this site i.e. sending by recorded delivery, give 12+2 days to respond, if no response or cca not produced give them 30 or 40 days (sorry cant remember how many but its here on the website somewhere) and if they still cant produce your cca, the debt cannot be enforced - Or, depending on their response and supply of relevent documents then try to arrange a mutual agreement if its appropriate.


As for the harassing phone calls make a complaint to Trading Standards - I did, I had to change my home phone number 3 times to stop receiving calls from these people up til 11pm. Its covered by the Harrassment Act.


I have to now start my own thread about the response I have received regarding Littlewoods under the Shop Direct Group as to my next response to this stupid, pointless statement I received after asking for my cca - now what does that tell you? It tells me they dont have one!! :D


Ok good bit.... I have received a letter from additions saying


With reference to your letter (default letter) I can confirm that we will not be pursuing the above account for he oustnading balance.


Great news, I still dont understand how they can sen that but when little woods get sent a default letter they send something completely different and simply behav no even attempted a reply from the default letter ???:lol:

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TBH I have to chase mine up - Ive given them all waaaay too much time and now the phone calls are starting again *sigh*. My time has been taking up with a possible police investigation relating to a mastercard account. All heavy stuff and my head is exploding.


Once Ive gathered all my stuff and had a good read through, I may be able to post up some useful stuff. One thing I have discovered is that although all the catalogues mentioned in this thread come under the umbrella of the Shop Direct Group, they dont seem to talk to each other. I believe thats because each account was opened with their sub-companies (can you call them that?) separately and at different times.


You could bury them all in paperwork by requesting documents from each account separately and then request documents from Shop Direct and compare what you get. I love to bury them under paperwork! :D Serves them right, they should operate under one name seeing as they all offer the same services etc.


All this talk have got my juices going again.....

Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum


The great thing is to know when to speak and when to keep quiet.


(Seneca the Younger (attributed), Proverbs, 74)



Speech is given to many; intelligence to few - but if its well said, I said it!


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Well some more juicey bits now.........


I know you said you had a lot on but its worth a read.


I have recently sent a default letter to Next they wrote back this morning


No dear addresse or anything


goes straight into


Wehave previously supplied you with or please find enclosed a true copy of the credit agreement. We are satisfied hat this meets with our obligations under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act.


By way of explanation, under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act, Nxt must supply any customer with a True Copy of their credit agreement upon request. For the purposes of Section 78 a, a True Copy need not be an exact copy or photocopy, as long as it contains every material provision of the agreement signed. This means that it does not need to have non-statutory information which was included for the creditor's own benefit or signiture boxes. Therefore Next are not required to provide you with a signed copy of the agreement and this is made clear in Section 3(2) of the consumer Credit (cancellation noices and copies of documents) regulations. We are required to provide you with a true copy and a true copy is enclosed.


A default entry wil therefore be made on the credit reference file, which may affect the ability to obtain credit in the future. Making payment to clear the balance will enable the credit fles to sho as satisfied.



Collections Admin





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Just to add that the agreement they sent me, in bold says OUR COPY PLEASE SIGN AND RETURN.







The consumer credit act 17974 covers this agreement and lays down certain requirements for your protection which must be satisfied when the Agreement is made, if they are not, the creditor cannot enforce the Agreement against you without court order. The Act also gives you a number of rights.


space for customer signiture



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Hi Bookworm


This link (if i pasted it in properly) to other thread should explain what I was getting at in earlier post......


Thanks for the PM the other day, always good to have a sounding board before i go and waste my money trying to force an admission from them with a court direction.


Catalogues - exempt from Companies act S.222(5)(b)


Do we assume most - if not all - mail order companies operating a rolling credit account are in a such a mess because they have been destroying records at month 24 - including any CCA's?


Comments appreciated from anybody looking in.

Edited by gezwee
Fat fingers syndrome!
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I have come to the conclusion that these mail order companies are in trouble as they are online operators were agreed credit is not signed for by customer. so not signed hard copies are made.




Does anyone have any idea what i could send next and little woods after a default letter cant find anything to write. wish this would end finally

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Hi Minimoos


See you are up late and probably chewing your nails to the quick......... stop it now and get a grip.


Bookworm and others have offered some excellent advice, have you been issued with a copy of your alleged agreements.... nope, do they have any evidence of outstanding balances ........ erm that'd be a nope as well.


Do they have evidence of goodwill gesture payments to alleged accounts ..... probably, but why would that matter unless they want to write you a cheque and pay you back?


Will they keep persuing........ of course they will, its in their nature but its your phone they're ringing and you can cut them off any time you want to.


As for any letters, if I've read all this thread correcly you have disputed all accounts due to lack of CCA, thats pretty much it, end of story. If I walked up to you in the street and demanded 2k stating you had an agreement with me that i couldnt find would you rush off to the cashpoint?


Any future DCA's come on to the scene just point them back to the original defaulter.



Consumer law is there for a purpose and its not all as one sided as some might think.


Do you have any property to protect? Always ask this one, as its the only reason an OC or DCA will become at all vexatious in the hope of a charging order - if you have nothing they could hope to place a charge on it will just rattle on for an age with various DCA's, they won't give up but you will be better enabled to deal with them if you sit tight and take a few moments to gather your thoughts.


No CCA, no further action required........ if they are in default they will only show their ignorance (which they have plenty of) by progressing further.


Have you got anybody else close to home that could offer you some support, you seem nervous and not at all secure about your position. A problem shared is a problem halved, speak to a friend or relative and you will probably find (surprise, surprise)that one of them will have had the same experience and if nothing else will certainly make you feel a whole lot better about your own circumstances.


**Oh and, your name still appears in post #7. You may want to PM the thread poster to remove, if you can't get hold of him/her try hitting the red triangle and 42man or one of the other site team will edit for you**


Best wishes



Edited by gezwee
Name still legible
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Dear Gezwee


Thanks for yor support mos needed, cant really talk to anyone as not something i like to share, have spoken my to husband but he doesnt really have a clue. I kinda take on all the financial dealings so I am usually the strong one sorting things out, making things work. But it eems to be getting on top of me as my husband is self employed and work is non exsistant , but we get by,

I am glad i have done what i can we live in rented accomodation so hey cant touch us there, I take it I just have to be persistant. I havent heard a thing from Simply Be of JD WIlliams which is weird and bit worrying as i thought they would despute the default as Littlewoods have. Additions have sent me a letter to say that the debt will not be chased.

So I must refer to the default letter and hold tight.


You dont know how great it is to have this to vent and get advice it is most appreciated, its really really helped me.

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  • 2 months later...

I have received a letter from one of the catalogues I sent a CCA request and default letter and they have wrote



Further to previous correspondance.


May I advise we have no made prior arrangements to cease collection activity on your above account numbers.


You will shortly be receiving an up to date statements of your accountss, which will include a payment slip.


Yours sincerely

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Hi Minimoos


Very kind of them to send you some lining for the budgie cage.


No CCA, no payment. Did say they will keep chasing but heyho its what they do. They've acknowledged no agreement, they've acknowledged your default letter - still without agreement.


Keep all paperwork and the envelopes if you have them still, record the date of delivery etc


Have you sent them DSAR yet? There may be PPI or charges to reclaim from them.


They'll bluster and chase and p*** you off but as long as you can put up with firing the odd letter off now and again reminding them that you acknowledge no debt to them its about all they can do.


They may sell it at some date in the future to a numpty DCA but they will not be able to effect any litigation without the agreement either. Just send them the dispute letter it should get them handing it back to the OC pretty sharpish.


Suppose I should add the usual.....Don't sign anything you send them


Not much else to say really, if they ever attempt to sue you come back on here and someone will point you in the right direction for a quick and easy defence to get it discontinued and claim your costs.



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