Parked in disabled spot but left before ticket issued

[ambrub88]

Hi all,

Im a newbie to this forum but have seen the excellent replies given and I was just hoping someone could give me some advice on my case.

I have received a Parking Charge Notice from Excel for parking in a disabled parking spot. This is a large retail parking spot with ober 300 free parking spots and its a free car park.

On the day in question, a week before Xmas, I unintentionally parked in a disabled spot for no more than 10 minutes, but on my return to my car, I noticed the attendant from Excel filling in a parking ticket whilst stood ajacent to my car. I walked to my car, opened the door, and drove off quite calmly. I was under the impression that until a ticket had been formally served upon me or my car, I wouldn't be hearing from them, but today I have received the Parking Charge Notice for £60 with 14 days to appeal or face £100 fine.

As far as I'm aware, there were no pictures taken and I dont think there is cctv evidence though im not entirely sure on the cctv.

Could someone kindly tell me what my best course of action should be because im determined not to pay this fine.

many many thanks

What is my best course of action

[lamma]

action ? none - just ignore them. Do they actually call it a fine ?

[Rooster-UK]

Hi Ambrub.

 

Have a look at this excellent thread, at the top of this forum.....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/119802-private-parking-tickets-template.html

 

Regards, Rooster.

[Al27]

I was under the impression that until a ticket had been formally served upon me or my car, I wouldn't be hearing from them, but today I have received the Parking Charge Notice for £60 with 14 days to appeal or face £100 fine.

As far as I'm aware, there were no pictures taken and I dont think there is cctv evidence though im not entirely sure on the cctv.

Could someone kindly tell me what my best course of action should be because im determined not to pay this fine.

many many thanks

What is my best course of action

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore their letters, no matter how threatening

• they will give up and go away

 

It sounds like you're confusing this private company invoice with a proper council fine. There is no appeals process, rules about serving and CCTV is irrelevant. It's just a [problem].

[ambrub88]

Many thanks guys for your advice which I follwed and wrote to them informing them I was the registered keeper of the vehicle but they should direct their communication to the actual "driver".

I have received their reply as follows, what is my best course of action....

 

"In response to your communication dated 15th January 09, we acknowledge your statement that you are the registwered keeper of the vehicle in question,however you were not the driver on the 12th December 08 when the parking contravention was committed at Foster Sq Retail Park in Bradford.

In view of the fact we request you to provide us with the name and address of the driver in charge of the vehicle on said date so that we may pursue this matter of the outstanding charge accordingly. Pursuant to paragraphy 4.2 of the Pre-Action Protocol, we must advise you that this is a reasonable request in order tat we may undertake the early and full exchange of information about the prospective legal claim and to enable the driver the opportunity to avoid civil proceedings by settling the charge before commencement of proceedings.

Failure to provide the information as requested may constiture a non-compliance of the pre-action protocols and could result in court proceedings being brought against the vehicle's registered keeper and judgement obtained for failing to adhere to said protocols and liability for the charge outstanding.

Furthermore as the registered keeper of the vehicle you are legally required under the road Traffic Act to ensure that any vehicle legally registered to you is driven by a person to which you have given your consent and can verify that they are legally licensed and insured to do so.

Please ensure you provide the information or payment of £60 no later than 6th February 09. Failure to comply could result in the issue of court proceedings whereby further cost's may be incurred.

 

Help !! what do I do next

cheers

Ambrub

[jed52]

Hi. Dont do anything! 'Pre-action Protocol'? What the **** is that all about?

Take the bloody letter to Trading Standards and see what they have to say. Excel must have idiots sat in an office all day thinking of different ways to word letters that will have the desired 'scare factor'. What an idea! A new tv show! THE SCARE FACTOR Sat.night 7pm. ITV 1. What do you think? Seriously, Ambrub, forget about it. Lifes too short to worry about pond life like excel.

[Steve__M]

Ignore them - it's specious nonsense. You've done your bit.

 

There is pretty strong case law that says that you do not have to identify a person involved in a civil action without an expensive court order that they have to pay for. See paragraphs 4 and 12 of this for example.

 

http://www.39essex.co.uk/documents/JB_RDU_Norwich_Pharmacal_paper_060207.pdf

[Al27]

Many thanks guys for your advice which I follwed and wrote to them informing them I was the registered keeper of the vehicle but they should direct their communication to the actual "driver".

 

Most of us told you not to contact them at all!

 

It doesn't matter though. The letter you have received is full of lies.

 

The situation now is that they will carry on sending letters and then give up. Whatever you do will not change this - they won't take you to court whatever happens.

 

Ignore any further letters and do not contact them.

[lamma]

more Perky rubbish being spouted by a PPC. Pre action protocol 4.2 not applicable. Pre action protocols can get used in small claims but is is very limited indeed and not for a PPC 'claim'. More unlawful paperwork form a PPC - who would have thought it ? Still waiting to see a lawful set.

[ambrub88]

Hi there,

Latest update - I have ignored the last letter as suggested, I have now received their "Notice to Owner of intent to issue court proceeding" basically asking me to pay up or disclose the name of the driver using my car on the date the parking offence occured. "Do not ignore this notice"

I am placing my life in your hands now guys !! should I continue to ignore these notices or what ??

[lamma]

Oh yes. ignore. their claims of Registered Keeper liability are fraudulent and you are under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER TO TELL THEM WHO WAS DRIVING (Not shouting at you, just in caps for all the PPCs that read this forum). Oh, and PPCs, check out the Fraud Act 2006 especially S.2 - try to not violate it. I know that means your letters would end up as meaningless wishy washy 'please tell us the driver's name' that just about everyone would ignore from the outset but that is your problem. Checkout the Consumer Regs 2008 as well - there are de facto criminal offenses involved for violation there. But heck, thats your problem. We have never ever seen papers from a PPC that are lawful (and often they are not legal either).

Edited February 11, 2009 by lamma

[crem]

We have never ever seen papers from a PPC that are not lawful and often they are not legal either.

 

Lamma, Doesn't that double negative make their papers lawful in your sentence?

[lamma]

Lamma, Doesn't that double negative make their papers lawful in your sentence?

 

correct - will adjust.

[ambrub88]

Hi Guys,

Current update : I have ignored at least two further demands for money as suggested but today I received a draft summons from Excel Parking requesting payment. Should I continue to ignore this ? I thought I had no legal obligation to provide the drivers details and so how can they prosecute when they havent got that information ? Please help

[sailor sam]

Hi Guys,

Current update : I have ignored at least two further demands for money as suggested but today I received a draft summons from Excel Parking requesting payment. Should I continue to ignore this ? I thought I had no legal obligation to provide the drivers details and so how can they prosecute when they havent got that information ? Please help

 

Hi there,

 

They cannot 'prosceute' you, only the police or inland revenue can do that. You have no legal obligation to disclose any info to them as they are not the police and have no enforcement options available to make you do that. Their only option is to apply to the small claims court to obtain a judgement against you for the 'debt', but they have to prove that you had a contract with them which you obviously hav'nt. At the end of the day, this is a civil matter and they are very unlikely to persue it through the court because they have no evidence.

[Al27]

Draft summons? Can you tell us a bit more about it?

 

Sounds unlawful of them to send fake papers.

[lamma]

Excel are on a push for money by the sound of things. all those wasted postage costs

[ambrub88]

Hi there,

Yes I have received a "Final Notice" letter from Excel requesting payment of the parking charge saying "as I have failed to pay it is now their intention to issue proceedings through the County Court to recover the monies plus any additional charges incurred through the Debt Recovery" and they have attached a "Draft Summons"

The Claim Form/Draft Summons seems to have been issued in the Sheffield County Court for unpaid parking charge which is currently at £100 plus £30 court fee plus 8% ongoing interest.

Although I informed them way back in January that I had changed my address and they have sent further communication to my new address this document and draft summons again was delivered to my old address. Cabt even get that right !!!

Id be very much obliged for your suggestions as to what to do now even though I've follwed your advice all along and really want to continue to fight this

[londoncass]

I can post you a draft claim form for the Trumpton County Court for £1000 for parking too if you like.... until they part with even more cash and you receive the court summons DIRECTLY from the court, with a pretty stamp of a crown and a legitimate case reference number then you can continue to ignore!

 

If you do receive papers that you think are genuine, ring the court and ask them, they'll ask you for the case reference number and will soon tell you!

[crem]

 

If you do receive papers that you think are genuine, ring the court and ask them, they'll ask you for the case reference number and will soon tell you!

 

I would ring the court now anyway and ask them why they have sent a court summons without the stamp on it. They will of course confirm they haven't sent anything to you at which time you could lodge a formal complaint that Excel are mis-representing the court by using official documents to intimidate and mislead you. I would hope the court should take this complaint seriously and you may manage to get Excel in deep dodo over it.

[Al27]

Does it specifically state 'draft summons'?

[lamma]

you could try arguing that they have committed an offense under the County Courts Act 1984.

[pin1onu]

If you don't get any mileage from the HMCS, why don't you try a complaint to Trading Standards. They are in breach of the Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in attmepting to misrepresent themselves in this way.

[ambrub88]

Further Update - help required

My case how now been forwarded from Excel Parking to Roxburghe Debt Collectors for the original sum of £60.

The new letters says : "We are writing to you instead of our solicitors as the way you have treated this account is unacceptable.

It is our intention to instruct our solicitors to commence legal action without further recourse to yourself.

In the event of judgement being entered against you, we would apply to the court to enforce it by way of a Warrant of Execution.

A warrant of execution would allow a baliff to attend your address and remove goods for sale by public auction and in your case wouls alert the court to all facts known to us including ownership of motor vehicles.

This is your final opportunity - make payment immediately prior to legal action being taken

You have seven days to respond !!

 

What shoudl I do please ???

[kiptower]

as it says "in the event of" that is if it went to court , and if by fluke ( 0.000001% chance ) they actually won, and if you didnt pay within 28 they MAY enforce

 

a lot of if's

 

to be honest why would they keep wasting writing to you if they had a case they could take to court ?

 

all part of the [problem]

 

they cannot take the reg keeper to court if he was not the driver, UNLIKE a real council ticket

 

read through the many excel posts

 

quote

 

"We are writing to you instead of our solicitors as the way you have treated this account is unacceptable." ( maybe its the teaboys on the next desk day off, who would write the fake solicitors letters for them )

 

the way they are treating you is "unacceptable" and a mail [problem]

 

another script from the planet perky

Edited December 24, 2009 by kiptower