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    • Dear xxxxx   complaint about Logbook Money Limited   The complaint Xxxxxx took out a logbook loan with Logbook Money. Xxxx told us Logbook Money didn’t carry out any affordability checks prior to the loan. Xxx said they have missed information on requesting evidence i.e. payslips and they have conflicting information about a utility bill xxxx provided them.   Xxxxxx told us xxxxx had several large payday loans which all had defaulted including a large guarantor loan to amigo, and Logbook Money should have seen this when carrying out a soft credit checks as told. Xxxxxxxx also told us Logbook Money have applied £884 in charges to an initial loan of £1000.     Details of the agreements (Logbook Loans)   Loan number Start date Capital amount Total repayable Weekly repayment Duration 31 August 2019 £1,000 £2,800.20 £35.90 18months   My understanding is the loan isn’t settled yet. Findings Our approach to considering complaints about unaffordable and irresponsible lending is set out on our website. I’ve had this approach in mind when considering what’s fair and reasonable in the circumstances of this complaint.   Did Logbook Money complete reasonable and proportionate checks to satisfy itself that xxxxxxx would be able to repay the agreement in a sustainable way?   Logbook Money have provided us with the documents they have relied on which includes customer information, income, and outgoings, driving licence, copy of the agreement and bill of sale. They told us they used xxxxxx bank statement to complete the income and expenditure at the time, however due to the lapse of time they don’t hold the statement any longer.   The income and expenditure from the time of sale shows net income was around £2,300, this includes private rent, child tax credit and DWP and her monthly expenditure was £764. This left xxxxx with a disposable income of £1,536 of which she would be expected to make a weekly payment of £35.90.     Considering everything, I think Logbook Money completed reasonable and proportionate checks based on the size of the loan, the interest charged, the monthly repayments and length of the agreement.   Did Logbook Money make a fair lending decision?   As I think Logbook Money carried out a reasonable and proportionate checks, I have gone onto consider whether it made a fair lending decision based on the information it obtained about xxxxxxx circumstances at the time.   Since Logbook Money said they don’t hold the bank statements any longer, I asked xxxxxxx to provide me with the statements. From what I’ve seen, xxxx monthly income across the xxxxx and xxxxxxx account appear to broadly support her income of £2,333 which reflects in the income and expenditure from the time. However, the bank statement I received from xxxxxxx shows outgoings were higher at around £1,344, which indicated a monthly disposal income of around £937 from which xxxxxxx would be expected to make the £35.90 weekly loan repayment. This indicates xxxx still had enough disposable income to be able to sustainably afford the monthly payments towards the agreement.   The screen shot of the credit report xxxxxxxxx sent to me shows Vodaphone, Three and Vanquis account has worsened in August 2019, however this information isn’t enough for me to understand what the credit report reflected at the time -  for e.g. if there were any large balances outstanding, defaults, CCJ’s, accounts in arrears, or missed payments   I asked for further information on 17 November 2021 – a full credit report from the time, including the statement of the account number xxxxxx and statements for all other active account +/-3months the loan start date. Since I haven’t receive the information, I can’t say what this would’ve looked like.   I don’t think there was anything in the information Logbook Money gathered that ought to have highlighted any concerns about xxxxxxx being able to sustainably afford the agreement. I therefore don’t think Logbook Money acted unfairly in approving the finance.   Did business act unfairly in any other way   Xxxxxx told Logbook Money xxxx is unhappy the way the vehicle was repossessed and how the debt was pursued. Logbook Money told us there were two attempts made to repossess the car prior to the actual repossession on 1 August 2021. The first attempt was made on 10 June and the second one was on 5 July 2021, however both attempts were unsuccessful. This would mean xxxxxxx was aware that the vehicle was at risk of repossession. Logbook Money provided us a copy of the default notice that was sent to xxxxxx in December 2020, which outlines the importance of clearing any arrears outstanding and the risk of repossession.   From the information Logbook Money provided us, it shows the vehicle was released to xxxxxxx after xxxxx made a payment.   Regarding the personal belongings xxxxxx said she had in the car at the time the vehicle was repossessed - Logbook Money told us the recovery agent left a message for xxxxxx to contact them to arrange to collect belongings.   In reviewing this case I’ve thought very carefully about the way the business pursued the outstanding debt and considered whether I felt that business fell short of its obligations in responding to xxxxxxx situation.   While I’m sure that this situation may have caused distress and/or inconvenience, I don’t think that this stemmed from Logbook Money making a mistake or acting unfairly or unreasonably. So, I haven’t made any recommendation in relation to this.  Next steps I think this is a fair outcome in the circumstances, for the reasons I’ve explained. But if xxxxxx decides that xxx doesn't accept what I’ve said, then please let me know by 10 December 2021. If I can’t resolve things then an ombudsman here can look at everything again and make a final decision. If I don’t hear from you by that date we might not be able to look at xxxxxxxxx 
    • god this is frustrating for you.   i'll ping @Andyorch p'haps he has an idea, not one of our past history strengths that i can find.   dx  
    • In 2015 I invested £45,200 in a SIPP operated by Guinness Mahon, which is linked to Dolphin, later German Property Group. GPG went into administration to Feb 2020. My SIPP was due to mature in April 2020.   I first took my claim to FSCS. They rejected my claim, I appealed and still got rejected. Their reason was that Wellington CFS signatures were involved in my pension transfer into the SIPP. This was a surprise to me.    I then emailed and called Wellington, several times, eventually receiving an email stating I did not exist in their records.   I then opened a case with FOS. My case has not yet been assigned a case handler.  From what I learned from others caught up in GPG. Wellington are stating their signatures were used fraudulently. Yet there is evidence of them taking fees.    If you want to read more there is a GPG creditors association Facebook site. You will find others on there in the same position. I did write to Wellington CFS and never got a reply.   If you call their Ireland number you get an answer machine. Their office in Devon, does pick up but this is just a receptionist, takes a message and alas no one gets back to you.   I also heard Wellington CFS is linked to Spain. I think the best outcome is that Wellington go into administration, at this point FSCS will be the last resort. 
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Simon & Jo V Abbey


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Hiya to all that are reading this.

W have just drafted our first data protection letter to Abbey and we're sending it off in the morning. We thought that we would start our thread from the very beginning and keep it up to date with the comings and goings. We have read a few of the other posts - makes us wonder what we are getting ourselves into!!

If there are any tips anybody could offer, then please feel free to pitch in!!

Regards.

Simon & Jo.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hiya,

 

I haven't had any replies yet, so I thought I would put the question up again.

Has Abbey threatened anyone with withdrawal of their banking services?

I ask because we cannot really bank with anybody else (long story) and I just need to know before we 'dive in'. I have seen some correspondance on other threads that says 'don't worry, you can pay off the overdraft with what you win at court', but this doesn't help us!

 

Someone please help.............

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  • 1 month later...

Hiya all,

 

Finally got a new bank account sorted (only taken a few months....) we have sent our first letter off, I reckon that Abbey now owe us something in the region of £20,000 in charges!!

 

We shall see what happens in 40 days.

 

Regards. :)

 

Simon & Jo

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Just another thing..... I have looked all over the place for the timetable that i should be sticking to. Does anybody have a link that I could use??

I'm all fired up now and brimming with confidence, now I have read the other threads!!!

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  • 1 month later...

Hiya all,

 

We have received our staements back for the last 18 months - as the rest are held on microfiche 9ususal response). I am just drafting our preliminary letter and wondered if there was an example spreadsheet that anybody has??

We have moved banks and Abbey are now getting a right shirt on, stating that we have to pay back our overdraft immediately and send back all of my cheque books and cards! Should I ignore their request or enter into some dialogue to pay the money back - ie personal loan??

 

Thanks.

 

Simon.

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Hey,

 

You'll never guess what. All of our microfiche records turned up today, dating right back to when we opened our account!!

 

I would say the game is now on!

 

Only thing, I have estimated my charges to be over £4100 for the 16 months. If I go back any further and try to reclaim further, does that make it harder for me to claim at the County Court??

 

I would appreciate some advice!

 

Regards.

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Hi Ya

 

If you go through the small claims track the maximum you can go for is 5k that excludes any charges and interest etc, I think.

 

If your claim is over the 5k then you could consider going for 2 smaller claims ( which is what I'm doing as SHabbey messed me around with the statements, no surprise there :grin: ).

 

I think also ( hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong ) but you can go through the court sysytem with a larger amount hopefully someone will post with more details.

 

Also whatever you do make sure you keep a copy of everything you send, and send it recoreded delivery. I've kept everything in a committed folder with all the letters and the little orenge slip stapled to the letter.

 

Hope this Helps

 

Andy

N1 forms delivered to court for Barclays

50% rejection letter sent to DLA

( Abbey )

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all.

 

I have put together my claim and sent my LBA on 21st November.

Abbey have now suspended my account and are lodging a default because they want £3600 back from me. They were very suprised when I told them that we would sort it at the courts!!! All I want is for them to write the debt off.!!

Will let you know what happens.

Simon.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all,

 

Just a quick update from us.

 

I calculated our bank charges over the past 18 months to be £4518.91 in total. I compiled the spreadsheet and sent it off, expecting a lengthy battle.

 

A reply came on 7th December, stating that the charges were not unfair and that the OFT ruling only relates to credit cards and not bank charges, so therefore, the bank charges still applied. They did offer £1800.00 as a goodwill gesture - a large sum really, compared to that offered to some.

 

This week, I have had a letter from Abbey's debt management and recovery services to get £1900 from me. Of course, I mentioned that I was taking court action so they said I was being unreasonable and have passed the account back for them to take court action.

 

I am preparing my court papers tonight for the adittional £2700 (ish) as it has now been some 6 weeks at least since i last heard from them.

 

Please feel free to offer any suggestions.

 

Simon.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi again.

 

I am online at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk and I am at the prticulars of claim field. Only problem is that I can only put 1080 charachters in and the template is 1900 odd characters - I can't get in the information that I want to!!!

 

Does anybody have a draft template with 1080 characters that I could use please (or offer any good advice on how to slim down the original)??

 

Thanks very much.

 

Simon.

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Thanks very much for that!! - I opted in the end to still use MCOL and I found a scaled down version:-

 

Claimant has account (A/C No) with Defendant from (Date)conducted on their standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of money taken by Defendant in charges over 6 years. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.Para.8 and sch.2.1.e.

In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Defendant has declined justification of charges despite repeated requests. Claimant claims interest under Sec.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from(Date) to (Date) of (£0.00) and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of (£0.00).

 

It's now in the hands of the courts. I would appreciate any further advice as to what happens next and what I should expect from Abbey.

 

Regards.

 

Simon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

I lodged my information with MCOL and waited for a response from Abbey.

I have had an acknowledgement of the claim, stating that Abbey are intending to defend all of the claim...... signed by a james Arrandale (stating he is a solicitor working on behalf of Abbey).:eek:

 

I imagine that they are now claiming 28 days to enter a defence.

 

What should I be doing now?? and do I need to start worrying?:idea: :?:

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Simon.

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Dear all,

 

I have received an acknowledgement of service from MCOL. Abbey have stated that they intend to dispute all of the claim and I imagine that they will wait 28 days before filing the particulars of the defence. The acknowledgement was signed by a James Arrandale (Abbey solicitor).

 

What do I need to do now? Just sit and wait for them to file their defence??

 

Is this just scare tactics??

 

I would really appreciate some advice!!!!

 

Regards.

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Just one other thing - my wife is really concerned that we will be really stung badly if all goes pear shaped and Abbey win the case.

 

Would we be stung for lots of costs etc??

 

has anybody lost a case against a bank?? what were the financial costs??

 

Cheers.

 

Simon.

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Simon, Oh ye of little faith. As far I can tell, Abbey always settle at some point between you filing your Court claim and the Court date. Doesn't mean they will in the future, but there we are. But suppose they actually defended in Court (LOL), and suppose you lost (can't see how, though, but just suppose), Small Claims would be extremely unlikely to result in costs against an individual (unless they took the p**s out the Court system). Fast Track (generally claims >£5K but not a hard limit) is costs against limited to £750 (again unless the claimant took the p**s). Regards, Mad Nick

Abbey £8370 settled 17 Apr 07

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Hi again.

 

What a state of affairs. two things:-

 

1) When I had my account closed by Abbey, there was a balance of £1900 on it - my overdraft, which they wanted to be paid there and then. I have told them that I was prepared to pay it at £50 a month - even though they owe me just under £3000!!! They refused this, saying that I should pay £100 per month. When I said that I wasn't prepared to pay this, they put the phone down on me......

Yesterday, I had a rude phone call, telling me if I didn't pay the balance within 7 days, I would be taken to court for recovery of the money......??

 

2) On the same day, I have received a letter from a Marc Winder who says his team are going to re-investigate my claim but this will take four weeks........

 

3) And another letter from Triton Square, stating they are lodging their defence and that they don't have a copy of the spreadsheet that I sent twice..... They also want my e-mail address and my mobile number......

 

So, is this bully boy tactics?? do I worry about the final demand for payment??

 

I'd really love some good advice as I don't want a CCJ against me - I did tell them I was taking Abbey to court but they are not interested at all. All that was said was "What is your debit card number so you can pay now.........".

 

Look forward to a reply!

 

Simon.

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Hi Simon,

 

There's a template in the file for accounts in dispute, so I would send them that, and maybe agree a 2-5% repayment on your o/d until your claim is settled.

 

As for the request for contact details it seems to be standard prcatice but most of the posters on here opt for just the e-mail. I am just about to file my claim against them for a similar amount and I've had a GOGW for a similar amount as well, and I've had the Marc Winder letter too!!

 

The solicitor you mentioned in an earlier post (James Arrandale) seems to be the man who is in a position to make the settlement decisions, so he's the man to keep sweet.

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion

......................................................

I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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Send them this:

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re: Account in dispute

 

I am writing to clarify that I am currently in the process of requesting a refund of bank charges unlawfully made to my account. These charges are the subject of a claim (No XXX) in the County Court.

 

I note from your latest correspondence that you are proposing to issue me with a Default Notice on this account - I need to make you fully aware that I am disputing the sum owed and, as such, you must refrain from any further action until this dispute is fully resolved.

 

If you do not stop this default action and proceed by making any adverse comments on my credit reference files, I shall be forced to take legal action against you under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

And another letter from Triton Square, stating they are lodging their defence and that they don't have a copy of the spreadsheet that I sent twice.....

Yes, but not to Abbey's legal dept who are now dealing with your claim. Just send them another.

 

They also want my e-mail address and my mobile number......

 

Tough!!
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