upto the eyeballs v HSBC No CCA IN COURT ** Help **

[creditcardmug]

So its stayed following your defence being filed, you will have to wait and see if they apply for the stay to be lifted, or file an AN as threatened.

 

I dont see any milage in corresponding with them further, you have requested docs in your CPR...they have not complied.

 

I cant find your defence anywhere in the thread?

[underdog13]

subbing with interest - best of luck, uptotheeyeballs:)

[upto the eyeballs]

I filed an embarrassed / holding defence to this claim as they did not provide any proof to amount claimed. The POC just documented amount owed / claimant.

 

I am thinking of sending one more letter stating:-

 

1) My withdraw my defence as they have failed to provide any proof of debt.

2) SHould the case go before the judge they will have to provide true copy of cca, default notice etc. (A blank agreement is not acceptable)

3) Request they discontinue there claim against me as they have no real prospects of winning

 

Any thought?

[upto the eyeballs]

bump..

[upto the eyeballs]

bump, any ideas how to proceed guys 'n' girls

[citizenB]

I filed an embarrassed / holding defence to this claim as they did not provide any proof to amount claimed. The POC just documented amount owed / claimant.

 

I am thinking of sending one more letter stating:-

 

1) My withdraw my defence as they have failed to provide any proof of debt.

2) SHould the case go before the judge they will have to provide true copy of cca, default notice etc. (A blank agreement is not acceptable)

3) Request they discontinue there claim against me as they have no real prospects of winning

 

Any thought?

 

Uptotheeyeballs, I am not certain what you are actually asking. Why would you want to withdraw you defence?

 

You could ring the court to see if they have any mnore news, although I would have thought they would have contacted you if HSBC had requested the stay be lifted.

 

As CCM has already said, there seems little point in continuing to churn out letters which will, quite frankly, be ignored.

Edited March 6, 2009 by citizenB

[upto the eyeballs]

Hi citizen b, sorry got a bit mixed up, HSBC wants me to withdraw my embarrassed defence and submit a fully particularised one which I can't do until they provide me with proof of debt.

 

Sent one last letter advising them account is still very much in dispute and pointing out a blank cca agreement with no terms at all mentioned does not constitute a cca.

 

Explained that without a valid cca agreement the debt is unenforceable by law and they should withdraw there case against me.

 

Will keep you updated...

[creditcardmug]

Phone the court for an update one month after filing your defence

[DonkeyB]

Your other option is to file a N244 to request the claim be struck out, on the grounds that the claimant has not complied with your S78 CCA request. But that would cost £75, and there's no guarantee of success.

[citizenB]

Hi citizen b, sorry got a bit mixed up, HSBC wants me to withdraw my embarrassed defence and submit a fully particularised one which I can't do until they provide me with proof of debt.

 

Sent one last letter advising them account is still very much in dispute and pointing out a blank cca agreement with no terms at all mentioned does not constitute a cca.

 

Explained that without a valid cca agreement the debt is unenforceable by law and they should withdraw there case against me.

 

Will keep you updated...

 

Aha, my apologies. Most definitely you arent in a position to put in a fully particularised defence until they provide you with the information requested. I wonder if it would be a good idea to write to the court and advise that HSBC are holding you up. Not actually sure how this would be done though. Perhaps someone with more experience could advise you.

[creditcardmug]

You get to demand the docs in the next stage, AQs, when you will do a draft order for directions for the judge, there's nothing more you can do at this stage

[upto the eyeballs]

Thanks for all your help everyone,

 

Letter has been sent requesting they withdraw there case against me and advising them without a credit consumer agreement the debt is unenforceable by law.

 

Unless situation changes I will wait 4 weeks and then try writing to the court/judge asking for the case to be thrown out, failing that do a N244 application.

 

Not sure what HSBC can do, they have admitted they don't have original cca or default notice or any copies of them?

[Docman]

I was in the same situation with HSBC last summer.

 

They issued a N1 claim from Northampton. I sent the CPR 18 letter and got their standard 'CPR 18 doesn't apply' letter back. So I sent my defence to teh court but HSBC didn't respond and so the case was stayed in Northampton. The bank did write to me in September saying they were unable to find the original agreement and that they didn't keep copies of Default Notices. I was thinking about making a N244 application to have the case thrown out but then two other cases came back out at me, so I was quite busy and thought I'd let sleeping HSBC dogs lie.

 

Well something has happened. On Saturday, I got a notice of transfer to my local county court becasue HSBC have made their own application to have my defence struck out and obtain summary judgment against me. This morning, I've had a bundle of documents from the Court advising me that the application will be heard in May. The bundle included 25 pages of terms and conditions clearly dated 1 October 2007; an unsigned blank application form from the Midland bank (my card was first granted in 1994 when the bank was still Midland); a copy of a computer print out of a template for a Default Notice (ie no dates, names, address etc);and SIX years statements. The whole bundle measures over two inches thick!!

 

There is a witness statement from some nobody at Dumb Goofers, Solicitors stating that as HSBC have now supplied all the required documents, my defence can be struck out and summary judgment granted against me. Clearly HSBC are hoping that the sheer weight of their 'evidence' will impress a judge, who they must be assuming will be green in experience and not a green on environmental matters due to the number of trees cut down to provide the paper for their pointless exercise.

 

That said, I can well imagine anyone who hasn't heard of CAG or the Consumer Credit Act may be a little scared at receivig such a bundle of documents from a court. Two years ago that would have been me but not now. Today, I remember the quote from Shakespere's Henry V - "Cry 'God for Harry, England and St George!'" and turn up at court to defend.

[underdog13]

Read another thread on these forums where cred presented statements as evidence. The debtor copied one of their own statements and cut and pasted the other sides name onto it, to prove to the judge how easy it is to doctor statements - judge agreed with debtor and refused to accept statements as evidence:D

[Docman]

Read another thread on these forums where cred presented statements as evidence. The debtor copied one of their own statements and cut and pasted the other sides name onto it, to prove to the judge how easy it is to doctor statements - judge agreed with debtor and refused to accept statements as evidence:D

 

Brilliant! I hadn't thought of attacking the statements as well. Food for thought though.

[underdog13]

Worth a try, I should think.

 

It beggars belief that HSBC would actually apply to court with a blank application form, unconnected T&Cs and a DN template - what planet are these people on?

 

Wishing you the best of luck, Docman

[Docman]

Thanks underdog.

 

Hopefully I may be able to flush something out of HSBC that could be of use to you as well, up2eyeballs.

[Docman]

Well, I've now read the 8 page witness statement from Dumb Goofers that supports their application. What a load of rubbish. It is partly exhibiting over 200 pages of 'evidence' - blank agreement, current T&Cs and the DN template - as one exhibit.

 

The statement continues to refer to sections of my defence, so it looks like a 'Response to the Defence'. It also contains references to the CCA, Civil Procedure Rules and some case law. A real mixture.

 

Does anyone know what should be in a witness statement? How do I respond to the CCA references and case law (I think there are referring to the Rankine case) in my own witness statement? Do I set out my full case (defence etc) as a witness statement or just exhibi the docments I want to use and turn up at court to argue my case without any written notification?