£2172.00 water bill! Help?

[Pit bull]

Happyfeet 24, I've just got your 'private reply' but my ability to surf round the labrynths and 'threads' of cyberspace is severely limited.

 

You're welcome to the help, but don't make an offer yet.

 

Send a letter to the CEO of your supplier, pointing out the inefficiencies of his firm in not sending invoices. How, when an invoice is sent, the supposed quantities are beyond all normal domestic usage to a ridiculouse extent. And when they do send a representative to check he agrees the quantity is excessive, then quote him with regard to the comment on the supply being possibly to more than your property.

 

Send a copy of the letter to the CEO of your HA. They might want to bring the supply question up with the contractors - which may well be your water supplier?

 

Meanwhile get all your facts, bills, letters etc, filed/folder in chronological order with a blank sheet for questions, queries or bureacratic gaffs noted on them with a master summary of how these relate or, more often, complete inverse that relationship.

 

Doing that, especially now the panics over, clears your mind and forms your case and its arguments.

 

They will try all sorts of custom and practice tactics. Just remember that's their customs and practices, doesnt mean they're right or even legal.

 

Entirely your choice, but in my experience, the big boys have usually more to hide than they have to gain by their inefficiencies being exposed.

 

Meanwhile, if you get nasty letters from their tame debt collectors. Write back to them, telling them the account in question is denied and disputed and their client (your water company) is aware of the fact. Tell them to back-off all you will include them in any action you take as being party to harassment.

 

The fun's just beginning. And while you shouldn't expect to get off with nil costs -we have all got to use water - you might find you can save on the figures previously mentioned.

[pelham9]

You have an outside meter (?) and they suggest the possibility that another house/houses are somehow drawing water through your mater.

 

If that were indeed the case it may be other houses' use that you are seeing when you record water usage when your stop-cock is turhed off. - there may be no leak at all and your meter could be recording perfectly normally. This could involve a number of houses. It is perfectly possible that all of them are underpaying because some of their water use is being recorded (if not all!!) through your meter.

 

Anglian Water could sort this but it requires stop cock tests on all houses that could be involved with simaltaneous readings off all meters. They could also do a full analysis of the usage of your house and the other hoses that could be involved. This has logistic problems and requires a lot of thought and they might wish to avoid this

 

A solution is to fit a meter in your house internally just before your stop cock. If the stopcock is then fully turned off there should be no usage. If there is usage the stop cock is either not turned off fully or it is leaking and needs replacing. With the stopcock turned on fully go round the hose and turn off every water appliance. Allow time to for all cisterns on loos etc to fill completely. If theres is still usage there is either aa leak (check all cistern overflows) or the connection to next door is internal. Sounds complicated but if they do fit an internal meter it is as well that you know how to check yourself.

 

If they do fit an internal meter and there is no leak or outside connection they will want to use the new meter to measure your water usage in future. They wiil also try to get an average usage to estimate the usage fior the past 2.5 years. They will take reading when the meter is put in and readings after say a month and derive a dialy average. They will then calculate the usage that is estimated to have been used for the past 800 days or so. Make sure you use as litttle water as possible during this averageing period (!) and also make sure you inform them of any days that the house was not occupied (holidays etc). You cannot have used the daiky average if you were not there,

[Happyfeet24]

Thank you Pit bull and pelham9,

 

There's much I'd like to say in response to both the replys you have given, for now I'd just like to say thank you and let you know that I've taken full note of everything you've both said. It's excellent help that I really appreciate.

 

Anglian have sent yet another bill, despite the rep telling me it would be placed on hold for a week.

 

So at the moment I'm no further forward. I may actually have taken a step back.

 

But, I'm going to ignore the bill which now has gone well past £3'000.00

 

I'll wait for the report of the 'investigation' to come through. It's jsut annoying that I was assured the account would be on hold yet they still send a bill??!!

 

I'm sat here more than happy to pay my fair share of water and services, but so far nobody seems to want to present me with a sensible bill:(

 

Why can't the right arm just have a simple conversation with the left so it knows what's going on!?

[pelham9]

I understand your annoyance only too well.

 

My dealings with the utilities has made me realise that they only talk TO computers and never to each other even THROUGH computers. The computer programs are not flexible and it is very difficult to get anthing done at all. My son works for a water company in the IT department and he says the main systems are cr*p.

 

You have done all you can so why not leave it to them now. No doubt they will continue to send incorrect bills and it is very likely that if you do not pay because you are in dispute with them they will attempt to take court action when their incompetence will quickly become apparant and all will then be settled.

 

Do not be intimidated by the threat of court action. In your case it is may be the best way. Courts are there to help the consumer as much as the utilities and if you go to court ( and you must) you will be given every opportunity to put your case and I suspect the case will be thrown out with advice to the utility to sort this out.

[Happyfeet24]

Thank you Pelham9,

 

I took your advice and relaxed a little, as you know this isn't my only supplier worry at the moment (and thank you for your help with the others too)

 

I received the findings of the testing/visit today. Outcome = Inconclusive

 

They have put the account on hold for a further 6 weeks. No explanation of what they plan to do, just that it's on hold. They did stress that they don't have a contact number for me and want me to ring them so that they can explain the result they have come to. I would have thought 'inconclusive' wouldn't take much explaining. I'd rather everything in writing, purely because that's how I've handled it so far and I don't have telephone recording as an option so a non proven phone conversation wont hold much ground in court.

 

Am I within my rights to continue to request everything in writing or would me not speaking to them on the phone be looked down upon in court as some sort of avoidance to sort the problem?

[Happyfeet24]

Just to expand on the letter this morning one quote I've noticed from it regarding wanting to speak to me on the phone is

 

'This would be very useful to enable me to resolve this matter for you'

 

I assume that this means an offer they want to propose to me that they don't want in writing, otherwise, why can't whatever they want to say just have been put in this letter?

 

Either that or I'm just getting far too suspicious:rolleyes:

[pelham9]

Of course you are entitled to have everything in writing.

 

Explain to them (in writing of course) that you have been advised that as this matter may well end up in court that phone conversations even though recorded are liable to be mis-interpreted and you want a proper record.

[Happyfeet24]

This getting out of control now and on top of me a bit:(

 

if anyone is willing to PM me to help me go through the latest developments then I'd be extremely grateful, don't worry I'm not asking for any legal advice or anything serious like that, just want an opinion really on the latest details that have come through

[aj84]

I think your best bet will be to post your update here ... That way you get a combined effort rather than the opinion of one

[Happyfeet24]

I completely understand,

 

I'm sorry, I didn't explain myself very well,

 

It's got so bad that any details I post will clearly reveal my true id to anglian and allow my position to be monitered.

 

Don't worry, it's alright, I understand that the PM isn't very popular, I just wanted to ask a 2nd opinion of what I should do, but no worries, I'll sort it out somehow,

 

cheers everyone

[Happyfeet24]

LOL,

 

looks like it's a case for the ConsumerCouncilFor Water,

 

I don't want to post anything else on a public forum, but to give you an idea why I was asking for help on PM is becasue they've now charged me £1'300 for 4 weeks of usage, it doesn't even match the previous charges,

 

yes, I know it sounds made up, but for me it's real, they are also sending letters that I don't want to post on here, basicly, they're hammering me, but it's alright, I'll sort it lol

 

thanks for so far anyway

[Happyfeet24]

Quick update.

 

Anglian Water have continued to refuse to give an explanation in writting as to why the bill is so high and continued to request me to phone them.

 

They've now issued 'Advance Notice Of Legal Procceedings', they've already sent the 'red' threat letter a few weeks ago so I guess this is their stage 2.

 

They've used the same wording as a DCA would 'Order for the sale of your house', 'removal of possessions from your home', 'deduction from your wages' ect and so on.

 

I'll of course defend, but, should I lose what would actually happen?

[pelham9]

They would be foolish to take you to court !!

 

If the do and you lose a CCJ will be awarded for the amount claimed either for the full amount (in 2 weeks) or for payments over a period decided by the court. If you do not make the payment(s) you are in default of the court order.

 

Only if you are in default can they apply TO THE COURT for an execution warrant (bailiffs) or a charge on your house or a atachment of earnings. There is no way they can force you to sell your house.

 

The threats they have made are immoral and against regulator guidelines.

 

My own feeling is that you should make your own estimate of what you should have payed and pay this now. At least then you will have shown them you are not a 'wont pay' but are perffectly amenable to reasonable bills.

[scuzziemoo]

Any joy yet? x

[pelham9]

It's got so bad that any details I post will clearly reveal my true id to anglian and allow my position to be monitered.

 

 

Why are you worried about Anglian monitoring this thread. If they did so they would realise that there is a monumental error on their part and that they have not made sufficient effort to sort this out. Reading this thread should make their hair stand on end!! Anglian Water are responsible for all pipes up to the meter ( and that too) so if there is an error in the pipework it is their problem. The have probably not done connection inspections properly if at all.

 

You come over as a perfectly reasomable guy who has been doing his best to sort this out. They come over as an incompetent shower who are quite willing to do nothing of consequence provided they can bully you into paying a hugely inflated bill and to continue to do so for ever.

 

I would copy this thread ( including the cr*p remark made by my son!!) and send it to the Chairman of Anglian Water Group. This nonsense has gone on long enough. I would send a covering letterr asking for a personal reply and mark the letter personal.

 

Sir Adrian Montague CBE.

Chairman Anglian Water Group.

Anglian House

Ambury Road

Huntiington

Cambs

PE29 3N2

 

Sir Adrian was appointed on 6th April 2009. Nothing like a new broom...

[JU123]

Hi Happyfeet24!

 

You posted a link to your thread over a year ago when I was having a similar problem with thames Water. I actually thought that all was sorted because Thames Water actually told me that there was some kind of mitake and that all I needed to do was pay £33/month. They told me that an investigation was underway but that I didn't need to worry so long as I made the payments each month. In the past month I have been contacted again and asked for the £3200 (along with many other random amounts!)

Do you mind me asking you if your problem was resolved? I hope so! I really don't know what to do or what my rights are!!

 

[Happyfeet24]

Hi, no they haven't resolved it. They've taken to dropping cards through my door telling me they will take me to court. Had a few of those now. Letters are not responded too, phone contact results in the same 'please complete our survey so we can see how your water is used'

at a loss now, just sending what I believe is a fair monthly usage whilst they continue to multiply the amount owed by a staggering rate. The original bill I stated on this thread is peanuts compared to what they are now asking for 1 year on.

They are set on not reducing the bill. To be honest I think only a judge can resolve it now.

 

At one point they were telling me an 'indoor' meter would be installed but that never happened and they are no longer interested in doing that.

[42man]

I would suggest in the first place a SAR...which will cost £10, but it could be £10 well spent, it would be interesting to see how these charges have accumulated...also a letter to the chairman (as suggested above) showing your disgust and lack of communication from the company, would receive some immediate attention....I think sending an email to Ofwat could be useful too...

[tallorder]

Happy Feet you really have some patience

 

Definitely request the Subject Access Request as 42man says.

 

You might specifically want to draw attention to the bill, or completely omit any reference and keep it generic.

 

After asking for help here for a friend, I know the ICO (Information Commissioners Office) are less than perfect in their communications, but it can get results. [Ongoing SAR / ICO Thread Sep 2009]

 

The trouble is that all these monolithic companies are staffed by real (and I believe for the most part helpful and ethical) people. If you manage to find someone who actually sees you as the reason they get their wages, you will probably be better off than an IT graduate who failed the teacher training because of lack of interpersonal skills.

 

You do have to keep on top of the timeline and be as persistent and diligent as they would have you believe they can be.

 

Remember to record all letters which costs around £1 for a first class signed for letter which the Post Office give you a printed receipt for nowadays. Unless there are legal action documents, there is no need for the Guaranteed Next Day delivery of around £5 plus the normal postage costs.

 

Keep up the good work for all consumers who might be in a similar position one day.

[Happyfeet24]

Thank you to everybody who has contributed since I started this thread.

 

Alas, no result to date. Instead I do now have a £5k bill. This averages at an approximate charge rate of 1k per year for my 2 bedroom property.

 

They have resorted to sending the resident in house doorstep debt collection rep/agent to bang on the front door and post through the letter box the wonderful postcards stating that within 24 hours an application will be made to court and I'll lose my worldly possessions ect ect. He came at half 7 last night banging on the door and waking the kids up. I know it's him because it's the same 'man' who put the first threatening card through the door. But this doesn't bother me too much, it's the cheek of it when my efforts to resolve the matter are taken into consideration.

 

I haven't spoken to him as. A) I now actually want a court case and. B) I have demanded every communication to be in writing from the start and I want it to stay that way.

 

Interestingly, a neighbour on my street who is supplied by the same supply pipe as my property announced that she too had a billing problem, only by approx £600, but after following my advice it was written off and reissued to the figure of approximately £70. I however was continued to be ignored and received my usual bill increasing the total by yet another 1k.

 

The world works in mysterious ways.

 

I'm sure my desire for the involvement of judge at this point is understandable, but I have a brief case full of letters from Anglian telling me that if I don't pay the balance then they will commence an application to Court. The procedure from these points is where I usually continue by replying in writing disputing the bill all over again ect ect round in cirlces, Anglian then ignore me and then send another bill when it's due. So the Court threat is never followed through, I never get a result and Anglian just continue to baffle me. I've made several offers all of which have never received a reply.

 

I'm happy in the knowledge that I now have a few years worth of letters with proof of posting ect, containing my willingness to pay, offers of payment, you name it and I've got it. I have also put aside the money that I have offered them but they have never accepted or even acknowledged, so I'm all ready to go. The reason I haven't just sent it to their account details is because, as I'm sure anyone at this point would understand, is that in my opinion this Company is a complete joke, they are incompetent, unprofessional and above all, bullies. So I demand to have a copy in writing that states they accept the amount, that way there can be no argument about what the money sent has been used for ect.

 

Do they really want this to go before a judge? All I want is a correct bill, or if that boat has long since sailed then I'd happily settle for a bill based on the average for the size and occupancy of my property. They know this, yet continue this extremely odd and unproductive game.

 

I've never truly considered the likes of watchdog ect, but maybe this just might be a good one for them. Who knows. Anyway, my advice to anyone who reads this thread is to never give up, if it wasn't for this forum I may well have given in to them out of fear and put myself in extreme financial trouble, even then, it seems I'd still be paying 1k per year so I'd have been in big trouble.

 

I have today sent communication removing the implied access for any representative or agent working for or acting on behalf of Anglian Water with the intention of collecting money from me on my doorstep, I clearly stated that access is still granted for the purpose checking meters/pipes ect so there can be no confusion there, but I'm not having this banging on my door rubbish trying to intimidate me into paying this bill. I will call police too if he comes back and refuses to remove himself on request.

[Happyfeet24]

On a side note. Is it possible for me to commence Court proceedings against them?, with the aim of putting an end to this situation. The only Court process that I have even the slightest of knowledge about is the small claims court, which of course I doubt is relevant in this case.

 

My goal would be to have this current bill written off, a suitable bill issued and for further billing to be a correct representation of usage.

 

Is this possible?

[42man]

Have you tried sending a letter of complaint marked PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL to this guy - Jonson Cox, Anglian Water’s Chief Executive, I sent a letter to the top 5 execs at British Gas a few years ago and my problem was sorted out very quickly.....cc it to Peter Simpson - Managing Director, Sir Adrian Montague - Chairman, Martyn Oakley - Director Of Customer Services

[42man]

You can issue a LETTER BEFORE ACTION.....but you need to have a solid case which I presume would be for harrassment....have you paid anything to them over the last 5 years ?

[Happyfeet24]

No. Which may sound bad. I have though, sent 6 offers, all documented with proof, all have been ignored. If any bill had been correct, I would have paid. But as it started with the first bill at over 2k I refused and then this situation started. For every offer I've made, I've had the funds available to send and still do, but I refuse to send any money unless the company confirms in writing that they accept the offer, in which case I would then forward the payment. As things stand, I refuse to simply send money when no acknowledgement of the offer has been confirmed.

 

Would harassment be my basis for the court case in these circumstances?

[Happyfeet24]

Can a letter before action be sent as an email? or does it have to be a typed and printed letter? I started off this case with letters in 09 but has time has passed I've found now in 2011 I'm sending more emails