Abbey: A Draft Alternative Approach

[Seminole]

The mods had a discussion a while ago about ways to deal with Abbey's intransigence and delaying tactics. BF posted some ideas on a revised claim timetable where someone had details of some of the charges (ie they had some bank statements). I've tried to work this up into a new draft process with the following notes. I would welcome any comments or suggestions. The proposed approach is extremely agrressive and shouldn't be used until we've worked out whether it has any flaws.

 

Please read and post any comments here.

 

AGAIN I STRESS THAT THIS IS VERY MUCH A WORK IN PROGRESS AT THE MOMENT AND SHOULD NOT BE FOLLOWED UNLESS YOU ARE SATIFIED YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

 

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As many of us have found out to our cost Abbey have been deliberately obstructive in handling our attempts to get unlawful charges refunded and this has led to long delays for some people. Abbey’s prevarication focuses on Subject Access Requests under the Data Protection Act.

 

We therefore suggest that people follow a different tack when making claims against Abbey. Before outlining this approach it’s important to stress two key points:

 

• This will only work for new claims (although it may be possible to adapt it for use for claims in their early stages)
  
• It’s only appropriate where the claimant has concrete details of some charges (ie you must have some bank statements).

 

The approach is set out below with notes:

 

Day 1: Send Subject Access Request to Abbey

Use the template in the Library

 

Day 15: Send preliminary letter for the charges you know about

Use the template in the Library but amend the “What I Require Paragraph” to read:

Based on the statements in my possession I calculate that you have taken £XXXXX plus £XXX which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £XXXXX .

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter. I reserve the right to amend this amount following receipt of the information requested in my Subject Access Request dated XXX

 

Day 29: Send letter before action for the charges you know about

Use the template in the Library but amend the fourth paragraph to read:

I calculate that you have taken £XXXXX plus £XXX which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £XXXXX I reserve the right to amend this amount following receipt of the information requested in my Subject Access Request dated XXX

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the [XXDATE OF FIRST LETTERXX]

 

Day 35: Send a letter before action for non-compliance with the Data Protection Act

Use the template in the Library

 

Day 42: File a claim for the charges you know about and the non-compliance with the Data Protection Act.

Template to follow. You will need to use an N1 claim form and file the claim at a county court. You cannot use Moneyclaim. If Abbey have complied with your Subject Access Request then you should simply claim for the charges using the standard particulars of claim template and you can submit this through Moneyclaim.

 

This approach allows the claimant to dictate the timetable to Abbey and leaves them with little room for maneuver. Assuming that they prevaricate as usual, you will at least be in a position to make a claim immediately after they have failed to comply with your Subject Access Request.

 

Your claim may only be for part of the charges but Abbey are unlikely to defend this based on peoples’ experience here. If they choose to settle the part claim you can then suggest that they also pay the remainder of your charges. If they attempt to pay the charges that you are claiming but refuse to provide the transaction information you can amend your claim to add an estimated amount of charges based on the information you have.

[Seminole]

Thanks for that. I'll let others post queries and responses and I'll sweep them up and revise the notes. This is relatively uncharted territory and you've already managed to find something that needs tightening up.

[noobrider]

I see the advantages, however what about claims that are borderline to fast track...for instance £3500 of known charges over the 20 month statement period...with a further £3500 for the remaining 52 months so far undisclosed because of failure to respond to DPA...could Abbey not use an argument to delay by then forcing a fast track allocation causing additional expense and delay to you as a claiment.

 

Just a thought

[Lula]

Hi Paul, I think, in essence, this sounds good and also sounds ideal for my claim, if I dont get the blooming statements tomorrow, I think that I may well be your first guinea pig.

 

I also think that you could do the whole process like this and wait for the statements and ask/start another action for the remainder (if there is any) , what do you think? I have send an estimated claim, and can quite easily send another "revised" claim with spreadsheet and take it from there.

 

Any thoughts?

[Lula]

Actually, I am quite looking forward to standing in front of Miss Trainee Solicitor and saying to the judge, " I asked and asked and they kept saying that they had posted them, but nothing ever caim, so here is my estimated claim

[eyeballto]

ive gone through my claim including estimated charges so far.

 

in my prelim letter i put in an estimated £216 for 5 months of missing statements

in my lba i did the same.

7 days after my lba i received 4 months of the missing 5

now in the position of deciding if i should go to moneyclaim without the missing month or put in a claim plus an estimation for the 1 missing month. i have to decide if this 1 month will hold up my claim or not and if its worth it??

[give_me_it_back]

What about Scotland...? Is it still an N1 form?

[Glenn UK]

Sorry to be dim (you'll probably get used to my dim questions !)

 

are you saying not to wait for the 40 day deadline permitted for them to respond to the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) , but instead on day 15 send prelim letter, day 29 send lba, etc?

 

We have just sent the SAR to abbey for two accounts on saturday so could do this if its likely to be the best approach.

 

One point though when we get before the judge, if indeed we do, wont they take a dim view of this 'pre-emptive' action bearing in mind abbey would normally get a longer time period to respond than we are proposing to give them?

 

Secondly we have statements from Abbey for both accounts but i suspect that they will provide an under estimate of the chages they have taken, so it may be one in the eye for us and they may settle the lower figure.

 

Would we still be able to force them to comply with the SAR request in the future? i realsie we can complain to the relevant authroities, the name escape me right now as im new to this, but will this force them to reveal the data or do they ignore this action in reality?

 

Regards

 

Glenn

[kia]

hi just started reading some of your threads.Im now unsure what to do.Im still waiting missing statements do i keep waiting or force the issue and ive already estimated some of the charges

[eyeballto]

my lba with estimated charges expires today... shall i just go for it or leave it as it is as its only 1 month...im thinking that as ive already threatened them with a claim for estimated charges ive got to go through with it. sorry if this is the wrong thread but im off to the court in the morning :D

[dave554]

Just saw this thread after I posted in another so maybe the stuff in here could be useful to me. I'll let you guys know where I am first:

 

1: sent Data Protection Act request

2: recieved letter rejecting Data Protection Act request

EDIT: ***sorry forgot to say I got my last year's worth of statements***

3: sent counter letter for rejection from the sticky

4. recieved another DPA rejection letter

 

And that's where I'm at right now with about a week or just under until my initial 40 day deadline expires and I'm still waiting on the full 6 years worth of statements.

 

Suggestions? Opinions?

[dave554]

Oops... sorry guys...

[chrissy1401]

hi all...........iam new to this, i have started claiming me money back off abbey for 3 accounts, nearly £ 3000. ive had respones from abbey for my first claim and a refund of 3 charges but no where near what iam asking for, and a letter saying that they acting lawfully and they will close the account if iam not carefull. hellllllllllppppppppppppppp please

[Seminole]

hi all...........iam new to this, i have started claiming me money back off abbey for 3 accounts, nearly £ 3000. ive had respones from abbey for my first claim and a refund of 3 charges but no where near what iam asking for, and a letter saying that they acting lawfully and they will close the account if iam not carefull. hellllllllllppppppppppppppp please

 

Please start your own thread to discuss this.

[AsherJ]

Hey I have just sent a letter off to abbey it was strong but polite. hopefully this wont take too long but i dont think that will be the case.

[give_me_it_back]

Remember that this will not work in Scotland if the charges reach over 750.00. The non compliance thing is a real headache in Scotland. I have some statements, and I am issuing claim for that, then, when I issue the next claim for estimated amount, I will include DPA non compliance as a mention in the wording. It sticks in my throat as Abbey ARE in breach of DPA and SHOULD be called to task over it, but the Sheriff Courts here are very confused. Robert has issued DPA non compliance, but many of us are not getting a positive result at the courts at all. Such as http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/13004-bos-ignoring-data-protection.html

[leisl]

Hi justthought i'd let you know they don't always delay, i sent a Data Protection Act on 26/06 and had a letter with list of itemised charges last week (26/7). ot defending them just wanted to give others hope that they do sometimes comply. Do you think it's becuase my account is an Abbey credit card (MBNA run it) rather than an actual Abbey bank a/c? They've credited £100 as a 'gesture of good faith', now i'm going to send a prelim asking for the rest!

 

Good luck Leisl

[Seminole]

I've posted in Karnevil's thread. I'll put some time aside tomorrow to look at this. Sorry, it's been hectic.

[GOONER3900]

I dont know wether this will help anybody but if you ring Abbey complaining that you have not received the information they will give you the excuse that because of a TV interview given they now have 000's of people asking for back statements which has slowed the process down to 6-8 weeks. They will if asked give you all the charges and dates made to your account for the past 18 months. If unhappy they will tell you to ring the complaints department. This is of no help as all they say is that they are in line with other banks and will not refund them.

[GOONER3900]

Yes it was I have had my account with them for 18 months and they still havent sent the statements. This very nice man called Adam couldnt explain the logic only that it was bank policy to charge me £35 for a failed direct debit of £8.50. I have no overdraft as I didnt want one and I get paid on different dates in the month they knew they were getting the money it waqs only the day before I was paid. I have now changed direct debit dates. I also sent a letter yesterday asking for my money back.

[give_me_it_back]

This is what I'm doing, Karnevil, so I hope so. I'm in Scotland also, which is different in a number of ways - particularly that the courts are even MORE confused in Scotland than England about DPA non compliance cases, and also that £750 is our maximum, so I reckon it makes perfect sense to do what you are suggesting.

 

If our estimated claim is too high, the onus is on Abbey to prove otherwise. If they can produce statements as proof, it backs up the DPA non compliance claim, which will also be mentioned in the same claim.

 

Whatever way - they will be the ones who look obtrusive.

 

One question though - should the estimated claim and the DPA non compliance be made on separate forms, or should they be on the same one?

[give_me_it_back]

Hmmm... the difficulty here in Scotland is getting certain courts to understand the DPA non compliance action though... It was turning in to too much of a headache for me, so I reckoned I would ignore their DPA default for the moment, as I do have some statements and can only claim one case at a time, and there is a limit to amounts. I reckoned that, once my first claim is settled, I'll start the second for an estimated amount - citing the fact that I cannot be specific, as they have not provided information and are in breach of DPA. By that time, the IC will have come back to me too, so I will have that to add to the grist.

 

If course, what will probably happen is that the statements will arrive, and I'll never get round to kicking their ass re DPA non compliance! Although that will surely pee me off, as I hate what they are doing with all this damn stalling!

[fithorpe]

I just received the cheekiest of letters from the Abbey this morning and don't know where to go next. I had asked for a settlement figure of £3000 from the abbey and got this response....

 

****************

 

Thank you for contacting us again. I am sorry you are unhappy with the response from my colleague Katie Westley, which was detailed in her letter of 12th July 2006.

 

I believe we have covered all the issues you have raised, and as we ahve explianed you should now refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

If the complaint escalates into a claim in the county court, we will review each case indivudually and if we feel that our relationship with our customer has broken down comletelyh we may decide to give notice to close the account under the Term and conditions.

 

i am sorry we have not been able to reach agreement on this issue, but there is nothing more I can add. We will be unable to reply to you any more on this subject and any further correspondence wil simply be added to your file.

 

***********

 

don't know where to go from here :(

[give_me_it_back]

Standard reply. Carry on with your schedule. Have you started your own thread so that people can follow the case in sequence?

[sandra5786]

hi all, Abbey what a bleeding night mare, you send letter which they don't reply too and when they do your no further forward.

 

i'm at the stage that i've sent the 7 day noncompliance letter was sent off, 1 day to go and i'm confused what to do now, especially as i'm in scotland. i have only got statements with a few hundred £'s of charges on them, but how can i put a court claim in with out the other figures which is atlease a few thousand £'s, anybody help please.