Minor damage repaired by body shop, comes back with wrecked engine ...

[dazde]

Hi,

 

I stumbled across this forum in search of some help for what feels like a lose/lose case, although I feel I must have some course of reclaim, and am currently at a loss with my wife's car.

I'm just about to introduce myself, by struggling to find the right section on the forum.

 

I appologise for what is a lengthy story, but I'm really not sure where else to turn. I've tried to put headings to make it an easier read

 

Wife's car damaged in car park (unoccupied)

My wife's car was recently damaged when it was parked up (unoccupied). Fortunately the person that hit it, left their details, and the claim went through their insurance.

 

As this was not my wife's fault, her insurance company advised her to go through another company to make the claim on her behalf (which I've not heard of before). For the rest of the story, I'll refer to this other company as our insurance company (I don't want to mention names at the moment, but our actual insurance company is a very well known one).

 

Car taken to Bodyshop, and repaired

The car went to the body shop, was estimated, and repaired.

They collected the car from us, drove it off our drive (when my wife was there), and put it on the back of one their lorries.

2 weeks later, the body shop called to say the car was ready to be delivered back to us, but the oil light was on. I questioned whether they meant it came on on startup and went out, or was staying on, as the car goes through a startup sequence. They said they didn't know, as they only briefly start, then stop, but they had checked the oil level, and that was OK.

 

Car returned to us, bodywork complete, engine now damaged

They were meant to call us on the day of the return to ensure we were at home, but my wife returned from work to discover the car on the drive (unlocked), with the keys posted through the letter box. At this point we have not been presented with any paperwork to sign.

 

That evening, I started the car to move it, and stopped it immediately. I'm not a mechanic by trade (I actually work in IT), but I've worked on enough cars over the years to know this was the big end bearings that had gone.

 

Initial follow up with Company instructed by Insurance company

When I initially spoke to them, they contacted the body shop, and told me the body shop would call to arrange the vehicle going back in. As soon as I mentioed the engine to the bodyshop, they didn't want to know, and directed me back to the Insurance Co's agent. When I spoke to them again, they salid the body shop had told them, that they'd told me the oil level needed topping up before they would look at it (which they hadn't - they said they'd checked it and it was full).

 

Independent Engineer appointed and took a look

I say independent, but this is the engineering company that apparently authorised the original repair, appointed by the insurance company.

When I initially spoke to the engineer about this, he said, had this been apparent when it went in, the car would have been written off.

 

The engineer came to our house and looked at the car. He agreed that it sounded like the big end bearings gone (a very expensive repair). The only thing that stood out was that the oil looked very fresh, to the point that the engine couldn't have been run much at all since having new oil. I explained to him that I have not put this oil in. He called me back later that day to say he had followed up with the bodyshop and that they said the car was very low on oil, and they had topped it up - this is now a 3rd version of what they said regarding the oil.

 

The accident damage itself was very light, and our car was hit by a vehicle reversing, so no one suspects that the engine problems were caused by the accident, and I'm inclided to agree.

 

Insurance company advised of next steps

They say that the engineers report states that it does not appear to be accident related, nor due to the bodyshop, and that it is down to poor maintenance as the oil level was not checked for 'several weeks', and there was some gunge on the oil.

If I want to take it any further, then I need to take it to a franchised dealer, at my expense, and get them to strip the engine, and diagnose it.

I'm not keen on doing that, as

a) a franchised dealer will cost me a fortune

b) I doubt they will be able to say exactly what caused the issue

c) Assuming they say it's run with no oil, I'll still have no proof as to what point the engine mysteriously lost its oil, or during whose care.

 

 

Car details

Make/Model I won't mention for now, but it's a prestige make

Mileage: approx 80,000

We've owned the vehicle for about 7 years

Servicing was done by myself and a friend (which I know doesn't help my case)

Oil level was last checked about 3 or 4 weeks before the vehicle went into the bodyshop

Value with a good running engine, approx £3000-£4000, with a wrecked engine, probably worth about £500

 

My view

 

• The engine wasn't making this noise (quite loud) when they collected the car
  
• If it were, surely they should have reported it - either their lorry driver, or the workshop itself
  
• They've changed their story 3 times regarding the oil
  
• The car never used oil, and it's last MOT ( a few months ago), showed good emissions
  
• Why did they deliver the car back without calling, or having us there to accept it ?
  
• We have not signed to accept the car
  
• Should a bodyshop be putting oil into a car anyway ?
  

I really am stuck now, so would appreciate any advice I can get. I have read elsewhere, that I should complain in writing to the Insurance company, and then if I get nowhere, follow up with the Financial Ombudsman 8 weeks later.

 

Many thanks,

 

Darren

[dazde]

Just to say .... I found the 'introduce yourself' section, and have said hello there:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/175897-hi-newbie.html#post1899561

[postggj]

seems you are being passed from piller to post

seems strange they returned the car while you are away.

ime no expert but dont you have to sign some thing to say you are happy with the condition of the vehicle before it is released to you.

why would a body shop have any thing to do with the oil level

 

have you noticed any large milage increase

also, check under the car for the sump,

thats where you drain the oil.

is that damaged to explain no oil

 

wait for more replies but i feel trading standard are in order on this one

[MARTIN3030]

2 threads merged.Welcome to the site.

Have moed your thread into this forum,I think its better placed for you to get some pointers.

[dazde]

seems you are being passed from piller to post

have you noticed any large milage increase

also, check under the car for the sump,

thats where you drain the oil.

is that damaged to explain no oil

 

Like a fool, we never noted the mileage when they took it, and we never had to sign any record they presented us. The Engineer had a record of the mileage, which was exactly the same as what's on the car now. I asked him when that was given by the bodyshop, and he said he didn't know.

 

First thing I did was check underneath to see if the sump was damaged (thinking maybe they caught it getting on/off the transporter). All looks OK, although very clean, but not new looking.

 

As the knock was the OSF front, the bumper was damaged, along with the wing, so I also thought there maybe an oil cooler that got damaged, but it doesn't appear to have one (it's a Lexus IS200). No signs of an oil leak anywhere, but then everything does look extremely clean, but in fairness, as they replaced the wing, maybe they steam cleaned.

 

Thanks,

 

Darren

[Conniff]

I'm afraid the burden of proof is on you.

[raydetinu]

Big ends do go but usually when on a run and pushing it: not just putting on a loader and driving it around the workshop. Sounds highly suspicious to me. It is not unknown for employees to borrow cars for a road test over the weekend! How long was it in the shop for? Has it got an electrical trip meter, some of these you have to scroll through to get the reading, may jog your memory when you last set it?

80k is pretty low for this sort of thing without something going wrong somewhere! But it would seem nobody is going to put there hands up to it.

I do know of a subaru that had a similar thing when it went to a mian dealer for a service and when driving it home the big end went 10 miles, took it back and it turned out to be one those things, only 40k on it.

Dealer stripped it and had subaru look at it; it was a fault on no.4 and apparently not unheard of at that mileage; Subaru paid up, not the dealer.

does not help you I know and it will be difficult to prove I think! good luck.

An engineer may be able to tell if it was a sudden failure caused by no oil? or a gradual wear thing, but even then can you prove they did it.

[Conniff]

An engineer may be able to tell if it was a sudden failure caused by no oil?

 

This is where the owner will have to pay for the strip-down. It would be possible to check the shell and the journal for whitemetal transfer due to lack of oil, but it wouldn't be cheap.

As you say Ray, even then can you prove they did it. If it's caused by low oil, who's fault is it for letting the oil get low, it wont be the bodyshops.

If it's mechanical failure, oil pump, pressure bypass open, or a material fault, that wont be the bodyshops fault either.

 

I have to congratulate you on the quality of your post dazde, it's one of the best laid out and neatest we have had.

[dazde]

Hi guys,

 

Connif - thanks for the compliments on the quality of the post

 

In the last communication between the bodyshop and the engineer, they had said that the oil level was very low and they had topped it up (which is the 3rd story they've given on the oil), so I honestly think the big ends went due to no/little oil.

 

My concern is to take it to a dealer for the diagnostics, will cost me a fortune, and even then, if they prove it was no oil as Conniff has mentioned, how do I prove it has lost its oil in their presence ?

 

Exceptional circumstances ???

I can't help but think though, that it's an exceptional set of circumstances that must have lead to this for it to be genuine.

 

1) The oil level was checked by myself a few weeks before it went in, and was fine.

 

2) The vehicle has never used any oil, the emmisions are good (or were at the last MOT a few months back), so it's not burning any oil, and there's no sign of a leak.

 

3) The vehicle has a low oil level warning light (separate to the oil pressure light). I know the low level warning lights normally only work from a cold start (no point in measuring oil level in an engine that's been running a few mins ago), but .... assuming this is working (I could prove that fairly easily), we would have noticed ourselves (the vehicle is started from cold every morning).

 

4) If the low oil warning light is working, this must mean the oil level became low (for whatever obscure reason), whilst in their care.

 

Do I have a case for negligence or professional misconduct ?

I'm no solicitor, but the best I think I could hope for is to prove professional misconduct, on the basis that:

 

1) The problem was NOT reported when it went in - not by their collection driver (which he couldn't have since my wife saw it leave the drive), not the staff at the body shop.

 

2) They gave 3 different stories (one to me, a different one to the insurance co, and a 3rd to the engineer, so at least 2 of them are with different companies)

 

3) They delivered the car back when no one was at home, which they knew, as my wife had explained she would not be there, and if they called she could be home in 5 mins.

 

4) We've not had to sign to receive the vehicle back, and there is no mention of the issue in the body shop's paper work which they had left in the car

 

 

Thanks Darren

PS. Getting your feedback is really appreciated - it's a complex situation, and it helps to talk it through with others, especially as most of you seem to understand engines too.

Edited January 7, 2009 by dazde
couple of typos

[BVG]

Hi,

 

As a manager of a large dealer and bodyshop they should have completed a few things which they may not have that can help you out here.

 

1) Upon collection from your wife a body damage form should have been completed and your wife would have signed this. It would detail the whole body damage on the vehicle and wheels / wheel trims, mileage etc.

Not a great documnet by itself BUT, am I am guessing here, the bodydhop you used was your insurance companys 'approved repairer' rather than a bodydhop of your choosing? If so it would be a condition of your insurance company that this form is completed. A kind of mimimun standard the bodydhop will have to agree to for the volume of work that the insurance company will put their way. No form means poor admin / practices at the bodyshop in question and this will help your case.

 

2) The bodyshop would have a 'Duty of Care' towards you. This is a legal requirement. They are the experts who are working on your vehicle and as such should be checking basic things on your vehicle before releasing it back to you. Items such as tyres, for tread, all lights working, exhaust secure, oil level etc etc. If you drove off their forecourt and crashed into another car due to worn out brakes that filed to stop you they would have had a duty of care to you and would have failed in in so would be partly responcible.

Ask for a copy of this report, its often called a 'Visual Inspection Report' dont let them fob you off with a body damage report, if thats waht they tell you it basicly tells you they have not done one.

 

3) When the vehicle was delivered back to you, you should have been made to sigh a 'Satisfaction note' to say you were happy with the repairs. A copy of this would have been sent to your insurance company with the bodyshops invoice. If it has not then 95% of insurance co's will not pay the invoice, if for nothing else other than keeping the money in their bank and not the bodyshops for another month or so !

You may find the signing has been forged as oftne the invoices and paperwork is done a few days after the car is delivered back by an admin clerk. Ask your ins co if they have had a signed satisfaction note regarding your car.

 

Many other items will come up as these questions are answered that can help, post replies and I will try to help.

 

Regards BVG

[breeze1996]

did you buy the oil when you topped it up as this would be proof it was not low.

[dazde]

Again thanks for all the feedback guys

 

BVG - very useful info - thanks. It will help put over a better case in the letter I am just writing.

 

Breeze - when I checked the oil a few weeks prior to that, the level was fine, and didn't need topping up. In fact the car has always been very good on oil, and although I've checked it often, I can honestly say I've never needed to top it up, unlike my diesel (although I guess that's to be expected on a diesel)