How do I unregister my car?

[peace2k]

danielr, i feel your language of being my victim is disempowering to yourself and others. me forcing you to work harder and forcing you to pay more tax. i dont think so, it's the system that forces you to do that. i say live your life and be free. dont be scared of having no money or food. the universe will provide, if you believe it. there's plenty of land for us to grow all we need. we can wind down the financial systems and corporations. now we have the technology and infrastructure, why do we need them? thanks guys, you've done a great job, now we're taking it all back!

 

i dont take from the communal pot and i do plenty of work without pay. i've never really wanted a car. sure motor vehicles are sometimes useful but mainly to lug stuff about and i'm sure there's better ways to do that.

 

you choose to work. you know that work requires payment of tax. you think you know roughly the reasons behind taxes. it's hardly fair to blame me for a system i didnt create on my own and which makes it extremely challenging to live an alternative lifestyle. it makes you dependant and then screams at you when you ask to leave.

 

it's good to feel grateful, but you describe a system of grateful dependance where we mustnt rock the boat else we'll fall out. what about being responsible for our own happiness, health, wealth, education, etc? a good diet, sensible lifestyle and positive attitude will prevent most illness. thankfully we can still home educate. in spain and germany it's illegal! a german family had to seek asylum in america. i suppose they couldnt come here because of eu arrest warrants. what if i were to take my kids to germany?

 

it's true that i've benefitted from the system, but many systems would have given me the tools i needed. much of what most people learn at school is of little use to them in later life. i went to a fairly good school and they gave me little practical knowledge of food, farming, money, banking, law, survival, spirituality, meditation, dance, arts. in fact the head master left amidst allegations of fraud. the head of my next school left amidst allegations of plagiarism. i've seen many others abusing positions of authority. maybe you can start to see why i have a healthy distrust of authority. we need to watch and question those who seek or have power over others.

 

i dont need or want roads. cars need roads. drivers want to park their large metal boxes all over the place, when they're not in use. drivers even want part of the pavements now. you've got to admit that generally, driving is a pretty selfish activity, especially in cities. given that single occupancy is so high, why do you need all that space? have you any idea how invasive cars are? horn honking, fumes, dirt, depleting resources which could have lasted centuries, death, injury, war, crime.

 

as for money and taxes, it's an illusion to keep the poor under control. lugging huge bags of metal around is impractical, however gold is so expensive now, most people wouldnt have much. an ounce of silver at £15 is ridiculously cheap. promisary notes seem like a good idea, a bit like a gold account where you dont hold the physical gold. however what we have now is fractional-reserve banking where they only need to keep a fraction of the deposits. they dont have your money. it's all worthless debt-notes, and mostly electronic.

 

i ask again, how you can castigate those at the bottom when those at the top cream off billions?

 

the tax system is so efficient that they have to blow money on useless computer systems (from the likes of 'fujitsu icl siemens nixdorf' who get a big slice of public and private sector contracts, even though they keep messing up) and pointless construction projects which nobody wants.

 

i heard a few years back that vat only pays for it's own admin. ie. they use it to monitor what's going on and that costs a lot.

 

as for admiralty,

britain used to rule the waves and nothing much has changed. it's now done from beneath the surface and the sea has come inland.

we are seen as ships sailing the seas of commerce.

pass-port you pass through a port as a ship.

trans-port - moving between ports.

air-port, there's so much more and the sound of words is more important than the spelling. eg. birth, berth

 

why is it that i cant leave the country without a passport? i think blair said people wouldnt have to hold an id card they just wouldnt be able to leave.

 

i challenge you to find anyone who isnt suffering some form of mental disorder due to our unnatural lives. in some ways it's so safe that we look for danger, and in other ways it's so stressful that it's killing us.

 

look around you, especially in cities, observe how unnatural everything is. ask yourself is it all necessary or sensible. how does the earth breath and is it what we really want? or is it that we cant see a way out, therefore we must protect the system which feeds, clothes and shelters us like an abusive parent or dog owner?

 

i have another crazy theory:

nature doesnt really do straight lines. does looking at so many lines make our eyesight bad or is it the close proximity of everything? does the eye benefit from looking into infinity? the more time i spend in the countryside, the more my eyesight improves. it's noticeable when i come back to the city. then it starts to fade again. computer screens are full of lines. it's possible to retrain your eyes with exercises. i know a lady who wore thick glasses and retrained her eyes so she barely needs them.

Edited July 3, 2010 by peace2k

[peace2k]

a partial reply to some earlier points:

 

danielr, this country is so rich, i'm sure it can afford a few spongers. it keeps crime lower and many people use it to get themselves out of a rut. it does keep people reliant on the system though and if it wasnt there people would find another way. anyway, it all feeds the economy that some of you love so much.

 

why does it sound crazy to get the original birth cert?

 

if the birth cert isnt important why do they keep it and issue certified copies at £7(last time i went)?

 

thanks again for the detailed bike info. i only really need 50cc and was hoping nearer £200. surely i could practice off-road without a license?

 

i'll make sure someone competant checks it over regularly, though i may not be keeping it long. i'm sure the cops will try to steal it off me. i'll be riding 20-30mph in built up areas, maybe 40-50mph on the open road. i dont see how it's much more dangerous than a bicycle. i've done 35mph and nobody legally has to check that over.

 

copshops are like bad motels. i guarantee they wont ignore small amounts of the class b substance cannabis. if they do i'll just bring bigger bits 'til they bite. they'll probably just steal it and let me go. we'll see. it probably wont be for a month or two as i've got too much on my plate atm.

 

regards risk, it's not that i dont believe what i'm saying, it's that the system has become so arrogant that it will act unlawfully and illegally. it may get sorted in the end but i could have suffered considerably by then. slowly, slowly catchy monkey. if we take this slow and steady we'll learn more, get less backs up with less casualties. eg. court staff and cops often seem hostile at first but when they see we're coming from a place of peace, to help everyone, they soon cheer up.

 

everyone's so convinced by the existing system that it's a bit like turning round a big ocean liner. it cant be done like a mini. call it inertia or cognitive dissonance. it's hundreds of years in the making and it isnt going to change overnight. a frog put in boiling water will leap out. put it in cold water and gradually turn up the heat, it may boil to death.

 

i'm only a partial arm chair activist. i do go out and do things sometimes. i've climbed a crane, been up the abbey and occasionally get arrested for holding peace signs.

 

getting a judge on his oath means that he is duty bound to behave fairly. without it he may as well be a man down the pub.

 

so many people are trying this now that judges must have refused to answer 100s of times already. regards a positive answer, we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

 

they're clever enough to make it seem that proceedings have been temporarily halted. what's really happening is that the judge cant remain seated and has to leave the court, every time!

 

of course it matters what type of court it is and who runs it. would you be happy entering any court? i was going to say my court but you'd get an easy ride if you hadnt hurt anyone.

 

i am not property so therefore unalienable. bailiffs can only take your stuff. if you've sold it to your mum for £1 and she has the receipt there's nothing they can do.

 

we can pick and choose statutes. if i buy something from tesco that's where my obligation ends. i dont have to buy everything or keep buying. i dont have to stay there or start working there. i can have alcohol on my breath whereas an employee cant. persons are employees of uk plc.

 

why should i contribute to a genocidal, suicidal society of which i'm not even a member (law society). i contribute to the community and would do more if i could but the system tries to permeate all areas of life.

[Conniff]

. bailiffs can only take your stuff. if you've sold it to your mum for £1 and she has the receipt there's nothing they can do.

 

Yes they can. If the sale is seen as a deliberate attempt to evade the seizure of goods, they can be seized anyway.

[gwc1000]

peace2K wrote:

 

as for admiralty,

britain used to rule the waves and nothing much has changed. it's now done from beneath the surface and the sea has come inland.

we are seen as ships sailing the seas of commerce.

pass-port you pass through a port as a ship.

trans-port - moving between ports.

air-port, there's so much more and the sound of words is more important than the spelling. eg. birth, berth

 

So that is your reasoning as to why a criminal court is an admiralty court? You have not mentioned anything to do with the system of law we have in place but offer a few words that end in "port".

Because the word "passport" ends in "port" that proves a criminal court is an admiralty court?

Why?

Yes ships sail the seas in commerce.

What has that got to do with a criminal court and why does that prove criminal courts are admiralty courts?

So because goods are "transported" that means criminal courts are admiralty courts?

Please explain your reasoning behind this.

You say "there's so much more" but you don't offer it.

I'm sure with that reasoning you've convinced everybody here that courts are admiralty:rolleyes:

 

I notice you mention that taxes are an illusion for keeping the poor under control. This is what fotl always without fail boils down to:

JEALOUSY

It's the "have nots" crying in their milk because they see the "haves" with their wealth and nice cars and nice houses.

Well tough. So you're poor, so what? Those "haves" have worked hard for their nice things and will always have them, whilst people like yourself will never have anything. Because you don't have the inclination to make something of your life that's your problem, not mine. I couldn't care less.

Best you get used to it. Nothings gonna change there me old mate.

Edited July 3, 2010 by gwc1000

[peace2k]

i'm a bit bored of cars, houses and money.

 

i could have money but i simply dont value it enough. real wealth is the love of my family and friends, my health and freedom.

 

you seem to suggest that people with a lot of money deserve respect.

 

if you want cars and houses, go ahead but try to think where it all comes from. if you think that exchanging worthless money for goods of value makes you superior then that's up to you. keep the gravy train rolling. many people with large financial wealth have had to step on quite a lot of people to get it.

 

whilst you keep authorising it by buying, psychopathic corporations will keep plundering on your behalf.

 

Conniff, well maybe bailiffs can still steal your stuff, but, as i've seen all to often, the value of the goods seized rarely covers the bailiff costs. hardly worth it? if you have nothing then there's nothing they can do, who pays then? even non-payment of council tax only results in jail if you have the ability to pay, but refuse.

 

if you're someone who's slaved your whole life and needs social care in old age, they'll take your house to pay for it. very fair.

[gwc1000]

i'm a bit bored of cars, houses and money.

Of course you are, because you have none of them do you?

 

i could have money but i simply dont value it enough. real wealth is the love of my family and friends, my health and freedom.

So why are you on this forum claiming that fiat currency is bad? You have the love of your family and friends, your health and freedom so why do you keep bleating that the world is corrupt? You have everything you want don't you?

 

you seem to suggest that people with a lot of money deserve respect.

 

No, I never said that. But the jealous streak in you suggested to yourself that's what I said.

 

if you want cars and houses, go ahead

I have thankyou. I have houses, I have cars. Great isn't it?

 

but try to think where it all comes from.

It all comes from my hard work.

That's why you'll never have the same.if you think that exchanging worthless money for goods of value makes you superior then that's up to you

 

That jealous streak's showing again isn't it? Try and keep it under control.

 

. keep the gravy train rolling. many people with large financial wealth have had to step on quite a lot of people to get it.

A bit like those benefit cheats eh? They step on everybody.

 

whilst you keep authorising it by buying, psychopathic corporations will keep plundering on your behalf.

I have no problem with that, so that's ok.

 

 

BTW. Your Tesco analogy fails miserably. Now, I understand when you read it on another website it impressed you greatly, and I do give you credit for changing "Walmart" to "Tesco" but you have failed to give it any thought (like everything else you have posted) and have forgotten to consider one very important point.

When you arrive at the checkout at Tesco the very pleasant till assistant does not insist that you purchase everything in their store. Indeed they may ask you if there's anything else you require but at no point do they force you to buy up the shop.

However, unfortunately for you there is a large body of people who will insist that you obey statutory law. You may not like it, you may disagree with it, you may kick and scream, but they have very large sticks that means they will get their own way. They are willing to force you. They are willing to use their batons on you, and if necessary they are willing to use their tasers on you, and if you are a very naughty boy they will use their guns on you.

It's not quite the same as shopping at Tescos.

[danielr]

i feel your language of being my victim is disempowering to yourself and others.

I realise that you're not the only person who is avoiding taxes.

 

but you are still taking from the communal pot in one way or another, and you freely say that you put so little in.

 

dont be scared of having no money or food. the universe will provide, if you believe it. there's plenty of land for us to grow all we need. we can wind down the financial systems and corporations. now we have the technology and infrastructure, why do we need them? thanks guys, you've done a great job, now we're taking it all back!

I can understand that it's possibly to survive without money, indeed if you have land and grow your own fruit and veg you could be fine.

question: how will you buy the seeds you need without money?

 

Also, lots of food takes a long time to grow, I planted my veg out a few months ago, and I've got little more than immature plants at the moment. what are you going to eat whilst you're waiting for the food to grow?

 

 

Technology and infrastructure? i work in technology, and if you think I'll work for potatoes then I've got a surprise for you.

 

As much as i agree with the more "hippy" aspect of what you're saying, sow and reap, if I'm working the land and having to plant my own potatoes, forge my own tools etc I'm certainly not going to sit in front of a computer screen making sure that the various systems running this infrastructure (which I can only assume would be the only remnants of the "system") are still functioning.

 

i dont take from the communal pot and i do plenty of work without pay.

 

you choose to work. you know that work requires payment of tax.

what work do you do without pay?

 

it's good to feel grateful, but you describe a system of grateful dependance where we mustnt rock the boat else we'll fall out. what about being responsible for our own happiness, health, wealth, education, etc? a good diet, sensible lifestyle and positive attitude will prevent most illness. thankfully we can still home educate.

Good diet, and sensible lifestyle can only be determined by a balanced education. you understand that right? to know what a good diet is, first you have to be told what a good diet is, and taught the science behind it.

 

as for education, I'm lucky, I'm the first person in my family to have gone to university, it wasn't easy and I had to work all the time whilst I was there to get through it.

 

thanks to my free education (provided by the state) I was able to extend myself to further education, and now as such have a more comfortable job and lifestyle than anyone in my family.

 

my father for example is a gardener, he has always done this, his life has been hard, his life is still hard and he'll have nothing when he retires.

I work in IT, my life is relatively easy, besides some interesting "thinking" problems, I earn enough that I'll end up being able to take care of my parents.

 

My father can barely work a computer, he's not thick, far from it...

 

the point is my father taught me to make things, he's a craftsman, he taught me to weld and fabricate with metal, he taught me woodwork (far beyond what was taught in school). he taught me to grow food and maintain a garden, he taught me (as I used to go to work with him) how to build roads/driveways/lay bricks but he could have never home schooled me to the point where I've gotten a degree in engineering. He could have taught me to read and write, but really only just.

 

being responsible for your own health?

so when your kids are sick what are you going to do? I'll take mine to the hospital, and you? what'll you do? ask around your freeman mates to see who might have rescued a medical text book out of a bin? then you can sharpen up your pen knife and get ready to have their appendix out?

 

no, you'll take your kids to hospital, once more you'll take from the system because it suits you.

 

 

I do like that people can choose to home school, but to be honest sometimes letting people like yourself teach your kids all this messed up and incorrect stuff is bordering on child abuse.

 

 

 

it's true that i've benefitted from the system, but many systems would have given me the tools i needed. much of what most people learn at school is of little use to them in later life. i went to a fairly good school and they gave me little practical knowledge of food, farming, money, banking, law, survival, spirituality, meditation, dance, arts.

I went to an OK school and left with a fairly good knowledge of all of these things.

with the exception of survival, ,i'll agree that's not on the national curriculum!

we learned food and farming in science, food technology, history and geography.

banking was covered in maths.

spirituality and meditation was covered in religious studies.

dance was covered (weirdly) in P.E

arts were quite comprehensively covered by technology, art, drama and music lessons.

 

All of these things were compulsory at the school that I went to.

 

 

i dont need or want roads. cars need roads. ... even want part of the pavements now.

why are you worried who does what with the pavements?

you don't think that the pavements are paid for out of taxes too? you don't pay taxes then you don't get a say in how the infrastructure is used

you've got to admit that generally, driving is a pretty selfish activity, especially in cities. given that single occupancy is so high, why do you need all that space?

I admit car ownership, and certainly single occupancy is selfish.

 

 

as for money and taxes, it's an illusion to keep the poor under control. lugging huge bags of metal around is impractical, however gold is so expensive now, most people wouldnt have much. an ounce of silver at £15 is ridiculously cheap. promisary notes seem like a good idea, a bit like a gold account where you dont hold the physical gold.

you don't understand what I was saying.

 

It's completely impractical to not use currency, it's a light and easily transportable way of exchanging goods and services.

 

Lets say that I want to live your way of life.

 

now to work the land I need a spade.

spades need, metal, wood and a craftsman to make it.

so, I can either turn up at the spade makers cabin, with a large block of metal, a section of tree, and some mixed veg, -in other words I re-reimburse him for the materials with more materials and furbish him for his time and the fruits of his labour with the fruits of my labour...

 

 

alternatively instead of carrying around lumps of metal, bits of tree and sacks of veg. I can take a promissory note.

 

a note that says thank you for your spade that you've valued at X amount. here is X amount...

 

then he can bring that note back to me at a later date when I can give him equal value in vegetables.

or his can swap that note with the guy who fells trees to make the handles for a load of wood, and the woodsman can then come to me with the note to get the vegetables.

 

you think that you can do without money thanks fine, I'd like to see you try (and fail).

 

as for myself, much as I'd like to be living off the land, one aspect that I definitely would keep is the received wisdom from thousands of years ago, Money.

 

 

to let you know why this system of banking and lending isn't a problem as you are trying to say that it is.

 

 

Going back to the start of the problem, before I can grow my veg, I need to have the spade, but I can't have the spade because I've got nothing to trade with...

 

thus I go to a friend and he says, I'll lend you the money to get the spade that would have cost say 100 potatoes, you give me 110 potatoes back and the end of the year.

 

this works well for me, I can get my spade now, and will be growing thousands of potatoes, so loosing ten over and above what I'd have lost just buying the spade isn't a problem.

 

the guy who wants the 110 potatoes (so 10% interest) isn't being greedy, he's being clever, he's clearly not only lending potatoes or money to me, he's lending it to loads of people, and he needs that extra return from me so that he'll not loose if any one of his investments (spades he's bought for other people fail). for example my friend down by the river, he had a bad year a flood washed away all his potatoes, thus the money lender saw no potatoes, the money lender is taking a risk and is beng rewarded for that risk.

 

now lets say that the money lender is a friend. who trusts me, yet doesn't trust the would be carrot farmer, I say to the money lender.

"I need to buy a couple of spades" he knows that a spade costs 100 potatoes, so 2 costs 200 potatoes, he gives me 200 potatoes worth of money and I promise to return 220 potatoes to him at the end of the year.

 

The carrot farmer them borrows 100 potatoes worth of money from me, except he's calling it 100 carrots worth.

 

now I need 110 carrots/potatoes back just to break even as I have to return the 10% extra to the money lender so I tell the carrot farmer he can have the 100 carrots worth of money, but he'll have to give me 120 carrots back...

 

(now the 200 has turned into 220 being returned from me, and the carrot farmers 100 has turned into 120 being returned. an extra 30 potatoes/carrots have appeared from somewhere).

 

this is the same as your description of fractional banking, person a lends person b money and charges interest, person b lends person C money and charges interest.

 

the difference is that my example works,

it's exactly the same, just with my example I realise that we don't have an entirely service based economy.

 

if at the end of yours you added and then the black smith who borrowed all the money at the end bought loads of metal and forged a million horse shoes you'd see that at the end of the chain in fact, even though more money was generated with the increasingly complex levels of lending that it all worked out in the end because more physical products were produced to give the currency value.

 

sometimes there isn't enough produce or physical assets created to fill the value of the money created, sometimes there is more than enough, that's why we have inflation and deflation.

 

 

That's about as simple as I can make the example to tell you why the (money) system does actually work.

 

this country is so rich, i'm sure it can afford a few spongers.

you miss the point, it shouldn't have to.

people use it to get themselves out of a rut.

I can see this, if I stopped paying tax, then I could affrd to pay off all my debts and stuff. and make a load of sayings so I could afford to disappear... if I could get someonbody else to pay for ever part of my life and also work and never give anything back, my life would be loads better, -doesn't make it the right thing to do though.

 

thanks again for the detailed bike info. i only really need 50cc and was hoping nearer £200. surely i could practice off-road without a license?

you can practice off road without a license.

 

if you get a provisional license and do a CBT you'll be fully allowed to ride on the roads with L plates for 2 years on bikes 125 or less. (not allowed on motorways though).

 

 

you could find a smaller bike a bit cheaper.

 

I thought that £600 to get a coupe of hundred kilos of metal forged into a complex machine, then delivered all the way from China to my front door was bordering on the kind of bargain that was only a once in the life time event. I think for £200 you might find someone who's perhaps got an old bike that they've used offroad and never had registred on the road.

 

you could also buy in parts off ebay, buy an old frame, buy and old engine, buy some old wheels and bolt them all together.

 

 

Tell me, is your problem being registered on the system or paying road tax (VED)?

 

it'd be better for all concerned if you got a license, I know that it'll cost a bit, but it really will ensure you're a better rider at the end of it.

the sad truth is that cars have minor shunts all the time, there's no such thing as a little acccident on a bike. one moment you're on the bike, the next you're going along the floor at near the speed you were travelling on the bike. people in cars have a huge metal box around them, people on bikes just don't.

 

All joking aside, if there is one thing that I do urge you to do properly it's the training aspect. get the training and get the license.

 

As I said before, Get your vehicle properly checked at an MOT station, you're not qualified to say what's safe, and as much as I like working on my own cars/bikes I'm not qualified to say what's safe. there are MOTs in this country for a reason, -it's to stop fools like me thinking that their badly done fixes are good, they ensure the safety of your vehicle for all the people around it...

 

as far as tax goes...

 

if your bike is 125 or less the tax for the year is only £15...

but if you really hate the idea of contributing to the system so very very much then I suggest that you buy a pre-1973 car/bike as these are tax exempt. you don't pay for tax, you just go to the post office and get a new zero revenue disc to put on the window each year.

 

-plus if you get a pre '73 bike you'll find it a lot easier to maintain yourself.

 

 

getting a judge on his oath means that he is duty bound to behave fairly. without it he may as well be a man down the pub.

Do you believe that judges would act unfairly otherwise?

Do you think that they could be leaving due to the fact that you've just insulted them and questioned their fairness, and that to carry on the trial at that point might cause them to be unfair, so they just ajourn for a while to calm themselves down?

 

 

of course it matters what type of court it is and who runs it. would you be happy entering any court? i was going to say my court but you'd get an easy ride if you hadnt hurt anyone.

in the knowledge that i've done nothing wrong I would be happy to enter any court.

 

but that's because I've done nothing wrong according to any law, statute, common, natural, or universal laws... and until they make getting on with your own life according to the law illegal then I won't have done anything wrong.

 

I do see the point of what you;re saying, don't hurt anyone and you're alright. sadly there are more ways to hurt a person than you see. as I said earlier you choosing to duck out of paying for the system and choosing to gather from the system hurts everybody who contributes more in your place.

and if we all chose not to, then there would be no system,

we couldn't take places anywhere as there would be no roads. there would be no peace as there was no policemen (or peacemen as you like to call them).

there would be no hospitals so the sick would die in the streets.

 

does this really sound like a better place?

[machinelaw]

what im trying to do is remove their interest from my car without trying to create an estoppel.

 

when you register anything, you hand over what ever it is to another party. this is why if your car is found on the road without licence duty then the dvla can tow it away and scrap it. in reality dvla own your car with your consent.

 

This is very true but nobody has the bottle to do this, parking tickets are also invalid registered or not to issue a parking ticket is an ACT so needs consent they hand you s parking ticket just hand it back and ask them are they acting under oath.I could explain more but it will take too long look into it. Even magistrates court is illegal as its maritime law and you come under common law. If u go to court and they ask you to stand orrise for the judge then refuse, because by standing you you give them jurisdiction over you and if they don't have that they will have to abandon court. All government is corrupt and we are all slaves it says so on your birth certificate that number is your slave number put that number in the stock exchange and it will come up with your name and d.o.b and how much you are worth as a commodity. Read fella and take a step outside the Matrix

[borisbeaver]

Lazarus rises again!

[Conniff]

This is very true but nobody has the bottle to do this, parking tickets are also invalid registered or not to issue a parking ticket is an ACT so needs consent they hand you s parking ticket just hand it back and ask them are they acting under oath.I could explain more but it will take too long look into it. Even magistrates court is illegal as its maritime law and you come under common law. If u go to court and they ask you to stand orrise for the judge then refuse, because by standing you you give them jurisdiction over you and if they don't have that they will have to abandon court. All government is corrupt and we are all slaves it says so on your birth certificate that number is your slave number put that number in the stock exchange and it will come up with your name and d.o.b and how much you are worth as a commodity. Read fella and take a step outside the Matrix

 

Here we go again, the David Icke clan has risen from the dead again. I blame the government for closing down nut houses.

[The Hooligan]

There is only 2 things that can be said to this lot really:

 

1) ROFLOL

2) How do I unregister my vehicle?

[ersatzman]

How many FMOTL arguments have to be shot down in court before their proponents accept that they're complete nonsense? I mean, even one accepts FMOTL logic (which I don't), surely the fact that it never, ever actually works should give one pause for thought.

[sgtbush]

i read the 1st page on the thread and as soon as i read "a person is a legal fiction" i sighed!!!!!

 

the freeman rises his ugly head again

 

to be a freeman and declair your house as a free country you need a few things,

like recognition from all other recognised countrys in the world,

you also need your own border controls

 

so its a big:roll:

[Conniff]

i read the 1st page on the thread and as soon as i read "a person is a legal fiction" i sighed!!!!!

 

 

So did I, I thought, 'oh god, here we go again'.

 

Instead of writing such crap, come and show us the proof and we will kneel before you in praise.

[sgtbush]

i did read that he may of fallen down the stairs

i hope he didnt call 999 for an ambulance, or used our NHS, doctors and nurses

i hope he showed his passport issued by his country to get into our country, no doubt a nazi style sniper tower reminisant of the east/west german border!

 

its all been debunked by the courts, there is a misunderstanding between the words berth and birth

 

oooooooo looksi, their is a rock over there mr freeman, go crawl back under it with your 1st year law students giving fantasy advice

[Conniff]

. The problem is that they have invented their own version of law which bears no resemblance to the legal system that is in place.

 

It's called the nutters law, they used to have special places for people like that.

[sgtbush]

dont say nutters house, 3 meals a day, heating, lighting games rooms, all for free!!

free visiting rights, a nice govener!

 

i might become a freeman

[Tony P]

"Employ a teenage. QUICK, while they still know everything!"

 

I used to say to my Son.

 

Fifteen years on, having 70 staff under him, he did say he now fully understands my comment that at the time infuriated him.

[Andrew-P]

This is an amazing thread.

 

The mentality of these 'freemen' is amazing and seems to be akin to a small child taking their ball home because they are losing the game.

 

I don't like tax, am not enamoured by the government (although I prefer them to the last and the alternative) and did not like the parking ticket I got a year ago but accept that the benefits of law and order and civil structure outweigh the disadvantages. I would not think so if I lived in North Korea but would not say so.

 

England and English law is not perfect but by the standards of most countries or anarchy (I doubt true anarchy would ever be possible as man is too flawed to make it work - it would be nice if it could) it works pretty well.

 

Now I am off to defy the law of gravity because I don't like it! :smile: