County Court Claim Recieved (HSBC - DG Solicitors) - But Living Overseas

[Nicoblue]

Hope somebody can assist me out there.

 

I am no longer living in the UK

 

I wrote to HSBC in November with Offer of Payment against a debt with a Full Financial Statement, however I have not had a response from them at all.

 

I now live overseas, and have my mail re-directed, this morning I got a County Court Claim - dated 4/12/08. with 14 days to respond !! This was submitted by DG Solicitors to the County Court.

 

I no longer live at the address it was sent to - as mentioned I am oversas and advised HSBC about this.

 

What can I do to get this set aside or otherwise if I dont respond, what will happen ???

 

Many thanks

[reallymadwoman]

I've brought this to the attention of the site team as it seems rather urgent.

[slick132]

Hi Nicoblue,

 

If you want to try and avoid a CCJ against you, you should contact the court confirming you are abroad and that there's been a delay in you receiving the court papers.

 

Do you have a valid reason to challenge the debt, like penalty charges, or a request for a valid Credit Agreement if it's a credit card a/c.

 

Are you planning on returning to the UK in the next 6 years.

[Nicoblue]

Hi Nicoblue,

 

If you want to try and avoid a CCJ against you, you should contact the court confirming you are abroad and that there's been a delay in you receiving the court papers.

 

Do you have a valid reason to challenge the debt, like penalty charges, or a request for a valid Credit Agreement if it's a credit card a/c.

 

Are you planning on returning to the UK in the next 6 years.

 

Too late they did a Default Judgment 31st december (I only recieved the claim form just before christmas in Australia - I did write to advise of this, but the mail must have crossed. I have since written to the court explaining the situuation, together with copies of all my correspondance to HSBC including Payment Offers (Made well before they stated any action) !!

 

I dont plan on returning to the UK - for 6 years anyway - well maybe 1 visit !

 

What Next ??

 

What next ???

[slick132]

Hi Nico,

 

You haven't said what sort of a/c this is - this is relevant in deciding your next move.

 

Do you know of any reasons why you think the CCJ should be set aside. Eg, lack of a credit agreement or penalty charges on the a/c.

[emitherme]

..

Edited January 14, 2009 by emitherme
?

[slick132]

Hi Nico/Emitherme ??,

 

As this was a business a/c, you can't reclaim charges applied to the a/c at the moment.

 

So unless I've missed something, you don't really have grounds for the Judgement to be set aside. Even if the court accepted your payment instalment proposals, the judgement would still have been made against you.

 

If you fail to pay in full, the CCJ will be entered against your credit history and you may well be chased for the debt if you return to the UK and register at any address.

[Nicoblue]

Hi Nico,

 

You haven't said what sort of a/c this is - this is relevant in deciding your next move.

 

Do you know of any reasons why you think the CCJ should be set aside. Eg, lack of a credit agreement or penalty charges on the a/c.

 

Hi - It is a business account (Not Limited Company) sole trader overdraft !!

 

The bank demanded payment in full, no breakdown of charges, closed my account, and then just reffered to Metropolitan/DG Solicitors (HSBC in house).

 

I wrote to all parties with offer of payment together with Budget sheet, and pro-rata payments against other creditors, nobody responded, I even advised I was overseas, and quoted a correspondance address to writ to as well as e mail address.

 

When I got the claim form, the 14 days had passed by (my UK Mail gets forwarded to a Mail Box in Australia) - I wrote to the court top explain everything, and sent them exact copies of all correspondance, and the offers of payment I made.

 

Judgment was granted by default on 31/12 - requesting that I pay in Full - I again sent a letter to the court after recieving this (Yesterday) outling all previous correspondance, and payment offers.

 

I have been told that now jugment has been granted, that this can now be pursued for payment through the Australian Courts - and am obviously worried about this.

 

Help/Guidance Please as I am no legal eagle !!!

 

Many Thanks.

[slick132]

I have been told that now jugment has been granted, that this can now be pursued for payment through the Australian Courts - and am obviously worried about this.

 

Who told you this?

 

From my knowledge of such matters, I would think it highly unlikely that any moves would be made to pursue a UK debt through the Aus courts.

 

Roughly how much are we talking about here?

[Nicoblue]

Who told you this?

 

From my knowledge of such matters, I would think it highly unlikely that any moves would be made to pursue a UK debt through the Aus courts.

 

Roughly how much are we talking about here?

 

I was told via e mail from National Debtline - that this could be pursued via Autralian Courts, by the creditors agent/solicitor if judgment granted.

 

The Total Judgment is for between GBP 6 and 7K inc costs !!

Edited January 14, 2009 by slick132
edited exact amount for anonymity

[slick132]

Hi Nico,

 

Well, "could be pursued" is a long way from "will be pursued" - the existence of a theoretical risk is very different to a strong likelyhood.

 

I don't know enough on this to comment as to the likelyhood of intercontinental enforcement, although it is not something I have heard of whilst on this Site.

 

Maybe other with better knowledge can comment further.

[Nicoblue]

Hi Nico,

 

Well, "could be pursued" is a long way from "will be pursued" - the existence of a theoretical risk is very different to a strong likelyhood.

 

I don't know enough on this to comment as to the likelyhood of intercontinental enforcement, although it is not something I have heard of whilst on this Site.

 

Maybe other with better knowledge can comment further.

 

 

Many thanks Slick132 - Appreciate that judgment entered against me, I have sent all correspondance to the court explaining that HSBC never replied to my letters etc...I can only sit and wait now.

 

I have no intention of returning to UK for 6 or more years anyway, what concerns me is if debt can be prsued overseas - or could i offer a reduced amount for settlement...as the saying goes you cant pay what you haven't got.

 

Guess they cant get a charging order against property, as i haven't got one !

 

Help/guidance appreciated.

 

Many Thanks

 

Nico

[slick132]

Hi Nico,

 

I stand by my last post - I very much doubt the debt would be pursued against you whilst out of the UK.

 

If you were in an EU country, that could be different, but I still doubt they'd pursue it given your circumstances.

 

They may be willing to discuss either instalments or some sort of F&F Settlement - it's worth a shot, rather than worrying about future implications.

[Nicoblue]

Hi Nico,

 

I stand by my last post - I very much doubt the debt would be pursued against you whilst out of the UK.

 

If you were in an EU country, that could be different, but I still doubt they'd pursue it given your circumstances.

 

They may be willing to discuss either instalments or some sort of F&F Settlement - it's worth a shot, rather than worrying about future implications.

 

Slick 132,

 

Just to let you know DG accepted a payment of GBP 12.00 pm on a balance of around 7k - Not sure if the court will remove the CCJ, but a moral kind of victory...just waitiing for the others to follow on.

 

Side issue DG chasing another account with HSBC, and issued intent on court action weeks ago, however I did tell them i was no longer a UK resident...I made a payment offer and since heard nothing...I know I will soon though, buty at least it wont be via County Court Action.

 

I am tempted to make Full and Final Offers for all outstanding debts - in the hope that the banks/creditors will accept, rather than costly excersize of trying to sell the bebt overseas...however I reckon this will only be around 0.7p in the pound, as that is all I can afford.

 

Any Thoughts !!

 

Nico

[slick132]

Hi Nico,

 

£12 pm sounds like a good deal but the CCJ will remain unless you apply to have it set aside. I don't see on what grounds you could do this TBH !

 

Don't be surprised if they use the court again for the other a/c.

 

A F&F settlement negotiation may well be best in the long-term. At least that way, the debts can't come back and bite you on the bum, although the CCJ(s) will remain on record for a while.

 

[3tea]

Regarding your CCJ, as far as I am aware, and I am no expert, the Court can only issue a CCJ claim form to an address in England and Wales which they have in your circumstances.

 

If you had made your creditor aware you were not in England and Wales, then they should not have entered your English/Welsh address on the claim form when they approached the Court in the first place!

 

It is highly likely that they deliberately used your 'old' address when submitting the claim through the Court, as they are aware the Court will not accept service at an address other than England or Wales.

 

You clearly did not know about this in time and judgement was entered in default, leaving the door wide open for them to pursue you in Australia.

 

I would imagine that they a relying on you not being aware of this.

 

If they have done this, with the knowledge that you were overseas when initiating the claim, then this could be an offence of Contempt of Court on the part of the creditor/solicitor.

 

I would imagine that if you can prove when you left the UK, and when you told them where you were etc, then this will end weight to your argument.

 

This in itself would be grounds for getting the CCJ aside methinx.....

 

Once they have the judgement, it can be passed to an Australian Court for enforcement.

Overturn the original judgement for the above reasons, and they can't!!

 

I stand corrected if I am wrong, but have a look at the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre website and it tells you on there that the address on the claim form HAS to be in England or Wales, reading further into the Guidlines for starting a claim, the address on the claim form has to be where the alleged defendant is resident, and does not include PO boxes or C/O addresses.

[Nicoblue]

Regarding your CCJ, as far as I am aware, and I am no expert, the Court can only issue a CCJ claim form to an address in England and Wales which they have in your circumstances.

 

If you had made your creditor aware you were not in England and Wales, then they should not have entered your English/Welsh address on the claim form when they approached the Court in the first place!

 

It is highly likely that they deliberately used your 'old' address when submitting the claim through the Court, as they are aware the Court will not accept service at an address other than England or Wales.

 

You clearly did not know about this in time and judgement was entered in default, leaving the door wide open for them to pursue you in Australia.

 

I would imagine that they a relying on you not being aware of this.

 

If they have done this, with the knowledge that you were overseas when initiating the claim, then this could be an offence of Contempt of Court on the part of the creditor/solicitor.

 

I would imagine that if you can prove when you left the UK, and when you told them where you were etc, then this will end weight to your argument.

 

This in itself would be grounds for getting the CCJ aside methinx.....

 

Once they have the judgement, it can be passed to an Australian Court for enforcement.

Overturn the original judgement for the above reasons, and they can't!!

 

I stand corrected if I am wrong, but have a look at the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre website and it tells you on there that the address on the claim form HAS to be in England or Wales, reading further into the Guidlines for starting a claim, the address on the claim form has to be where the alleged defendant is resident, and does not include PO boxes or C/O addresses.

 

 

Many Thanks 3tea

 

I have submitted A/Q to county court in UK - HSBC have had two dates to submit theirs, but still haven't - They have to pay GBP 200 as well to do so.

 

HSBC have written to me stating that they will discontinue action if I continue to pay GBP 12 p/m as well as pay own court costs !!.

 

Court have now said they need claiments AQ by 4th Sept (third date)

 

I have not responded to HSBC - so not sure what to do between now and 4th Sept !

 

Sat just hoping that court will strike out claim - cant see bank paying out a further GBP200???? or hoping they wont !

[cerberusalert]

If they obtained the CCJ whilst you were living outside the UK you can get it set aside on that fact alone, a defendant must be resident of England/Wales.

 

I suggest you also check out the Ex-pat Focus forums Expat Focus - Forums - Expat Issues (scroll down for country specific forums) - Personal Finance"]LINK (scroll down for country specific forums) - Personal Finance is a very common topic of discussion & they should be able to answer all your questions from their own experiences.