Letter from Collect Direct Re Egg Account

[cosalt]

Hi everyone,

 

Collect direct had taken over my wifes Egg card account a while back. We sent them a budget planner and made an offer of pament based on this.

 

They refused the offer, which is when we sent them a cca request, this was on received by them on 13/11/08. We have heard not a word until today when we received the following:-

 

I would really appreciate some help from someone in the know !

 

 

 

Dear Cosalt's Wife,

 

We refer to your request for a copy of your credit agreement. This has duly been requested from our client and will be forwarded as soon as available.

 

We strongly recommend you seek Legal advice if you intend to rely on the alleged non-production of documentation pertaining tom your liability to our client as your current understanding of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s 77-79 is inacccurate.

 

You have had the benefits of our clients credit facility since you opened the account in 2000, some 8 years ago. The fact that you have used our clients facilities and made payments is evidence of your acceptance of the contract you entered into with our client.

 

We are not prepared to hold this account in abeyance and request that you remit your proposals for settlement of the above balance within 5 days from the date of this letter.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Collect Direct.

[dpick]

Hi everyone,

 

Collect direct had taken over my wifes Egg card account a while back. We sent them a budget planner and made an offer of pament based on this.

 

They refused the offer, which is when we sent them a cca request, this was on received by them on 13/11/08. We have heard not a word until today when we received the following:-

 

I would really appreciate some help from someone in the know !

 

 

 

Dear Cosalt's Wife,

 

We refer to your request for a copy of your credit agreement. This has duly been requested from our client and will be forwarded as soon as available.

 

We strongly recommend you seek Legal advice if you intend to rely on the alleged non-production of documentation pertaining tom your liability to our client as your current understanding of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s 77-79 is inacccurate.

 

Rubbish no agreement = no leagally enforceable debt

 

You have had the benefits of our clients credit facility since you opened the account in 2000, some 8 years ago. The fact that you have used our clients facilities and made payments is evidence of your acceptance of the contract you entered into with our client.

 

No agreement, no contract.

 

We are not prepared to hold this account in abeyance and request that you remit your proposals for settlement of the above balance within 5 days from the date of this letter.

 

Send them account in dispute until CCA request complied with as they have stated they do not have agreement.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Collect Direct.

 

 

All the best dpick

[cosalt]

Thanks so much dpick, is there any particular wording I need for the letter in response or should I just look in templates ?

[postggj]

this is some crap even by a dca standard

 

send this recorded

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully __________________

[cosalt]

Thanks for the letter template, lets see what they reply to that. I can't believe they think they can overule the Consumer Credit Act.

[42man]

You can add to the last line 'Furthermore I will not be drawn in to a conversation about litigation via the postal service'

[cosalt]

Thanks everyone, does it make a difference that this agreement was terminated by egg before Collect Direct got hold of it ? I have now read in another thread that you can't CCA a terminated agreement ?

[cosalt]

Is anyone able to confirm whether they can be in default of a CCA request even after the account was terminated ??

[atwozee]

I think you are referring to one of mine – here’s the first line from s78 of the CCA 1974:

The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit

Once the account has been terminated the creditor is under no legal obligation to comply with a s78 request because the agreement has come to an end – if the account is sold on as live then that’s a different matter. Sometimes a DCA is chasing a debt on behalf of the original creditor and this is not quite the same thing.

The DCA would still need to produce such a document in court to enforce any alleged debt and you can ask them to prove they are entitled to collect such a debt.

Hope that clears it up for you.

[cosalt]

I think you are referring to one of mine – here’s the first line from s78 of the CCA 1974:

 

The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit

 

Once the account has been terminated the creditor is under no legal obligation to comply with a s78 request because the agreement has come to an end – if the account is sold on as live then that’s a different matter. Sometimes a DCA is chasing a debt on behalf of the original creditor and this is not quite the same thing.

 

The DCA would still need to produce such a document in court to enforce any alleged debt and you can ask them to prove they are entitled to collect such a debt.

 

Hope that clears it up for you.

 

Thanks, the agreement was definately terminated by egg following a default notice. Collect direct then presumably bought the debt from egg. Collect direct have not yet added any interest or charges to the account, but they would not agree to our offer of payment.

 

After they ignored the CCA request we sent the standard letter saying the accoun t was in dispute etc, but is this correct ? can the account be in dispute if it has been terminated ? What should I do know ?

[atwozee]

Okay – I don’t want to confuse you – just want you to be aware of the subtle difference with the request when it’s made against a terminated agreement.

Come DCA’s still respond to a s77-79 request so you might well get one in the post.

First off – you need to post up a copy of the default notice minus any personal details – leave all the dates on – sometimes the default notice can be invalid and that can render the termination unlawful.

The original creditor must also have sent you a termination letter and or a notice of assignment. The DCA must be able to prove entitlement to recover any debt otherwise they are going to have a difficult time enforcing the debt through the court.

When confronted by this query they will have to get the paperwork in order – there still needs to be a written contract in place to link the debt to the account – does that make sense?.

[cosalt]

Yes I think I now understand, I will scan all the letters re default I have.

 

We have never received a letter saying collect direct would be taking over the account.

 

Thanks

[joneseyblod]

subbing

[cosalt]

Right, here is the original egg default and termination letter.

 

Any comments appreciated.

 

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp152/cosalt/egg1.jpg

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp152/cosalt/egg2.jpg

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp152/cosalt/egg3.jpg

 

Cosalt

[atwozee]

The default notice looks to be okay – one could question the amount stated as arrears if the balance on the account were made up in part of unlawful penalty charges (late fees etc…) The arrears is a sum deduced in itself as a percentage of the balance so if the balance itself is overinflated by penalty charges then naturally so too is the arrears – it’s a complex argument but if upheld would render the default notice as invalid and the consequent termination of the agreement as being unlawful – and this means that the creditor is not actually entitled to recover the balance on the account – something to refer to later on if legal proceedings are threatened to recover the debt.

I think we can deduce that the agreement has definitely been terminated but at the moment it is uncertain as to whether the resulting debt has been sold on or is just out for collection – this again is a subtle difference.

If the debt has not been sold on then a D.S.A.R specifically requesting a copy of the agreement will force Egg to comply – if indeed you get nowhere with the s78 request.

Have you given the situation any thought if Egg are able to produce an enforceable agreement?

[cosalt]

The default notice looks to be okay – one could question the amount stated as arrears if the balance on the account were made up in part of unlawful penalty charges (late fees etc…) The arrears is a sum deduced in itself as a percentage of the balance so if the balance itself is overinflated by penalty charges then naturally so too is the arrears – it’s a complex argument but if upheld would render the default notice as invalid and the consequent termination of the agreement as being unlawful – and this means that the creditor is not actually entitled to recover the balance on the account – something to refer to later on if legal proceedings are threatened to recover the debt.

 

I think we can deduce that the agreement has definitely been terminated but at the moment it is uncertain as to whether the resulting debt has been sold on or is just out for collection – this again is a subtle difference.

 

If the debt has not been sold on then a D.S.A.R specifically requesting a copy of the agreement will force Egg to comply – if indeed you get nowhere with the s78 request.

 

Have you given the situation any thought if Egg are able to produce an enforceable agreement?

 

 

 

Thanks for taking a look, if they can produce an agreement we will just go round in circles, the original amount we said we could pay, based on our budget planner was refused ( they said they needed at least 1% of the balance each month ). I suppose it will end in court but surely they will only make us pay what we can afford ?

[atwozee]

True – and if it does go to court then you need to demonstrate that you have been reasonable – unfortunately the banks are trying to pull in as much debt as possible and seem to be prepared to make people suffer in the process.

Keep your thread updated and let’s see what turns up in the post.