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HSBC v Pipster - Court Tomorrow!! *****Discontinued*****


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Right took a while to sort the scanner out but here they are. It all came together but seems to be 2 sets of documents both of 4 pages but the first one only has 3 pages, they have left the 4th one out.

 

So here is the 3 pages and the 4th missing

 

Doc1Page1of4.jpg

Doc1Page2of4.jpg

Doc1Page3of4.jpg

 

and here is the 2nd lot of docs

 

Doc2Page1of4.jpg

Doc2Page2of4.jpg

Doc2Page3of4.jpg

Doc2Page4of4.jpg

 

All of that was stapled together along with an Application record. Thats where its there form they fill in with what id they have taken etc and decision details. Certainly its something I would say I wasn't meant to get which is why I thought they may have sent me the original instead of a photocopy. There is no staple marks on any of the sheets except for the one it cam with. It doesn't look like a photocopy

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For this type of agreement the prescribed terms are ‘Amount of credit’ and this is stated as Amount of loan and the ‘Repayments’ and these have been clearly stated and seem to add up.

This agreement looks to be enforceable – the only way it could be deemed unenforceable with respect to s127 (3) of the CCA is if the prescribed terms have been misstated – so did you receive unrestricted access to the amount stated in the loan and were the payments taken out of your account in the amounts and on the days stated in the agreement?

Doesn’t give you much to go on – are you struggling to keep up with the payments and if so can you manage a reduced payment plan?

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Okay – understand.

Not sure where you can go with this one other than for you to put forward continued justification to stay on a reduced payment plan – if nothing has changed in your circumstances and you couldn’t keep up the payments and they agreed to accept reduced payments then why are they putting pressure on you to increase them now?

Have they defaulted you on this agreement yet?

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that agreement is enforceable,

 

it is in the form required by Regulation 2 & schedule 1 of SI 1983/1553 with the correct headings and correct information under those headings

 

the prescribed terms per schedule 6 SI 1983/1553 are there and in the correct place as is the information required by schedule 2 of SI 1983/1553

 

therefore the agreement is enforceable

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I never got one from them. But when I checked my credit file it had a default on it and also the overdraft. The 2 are now together and I have been dealing with DG Solictors since April 08 and been paying a set amount each month. In October was when they started to pester me to increase payments and that is when I cca'd them

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Okay – you must send them a letter explaining that your financial circumstances have not improved since entering into the reduced payment plan (if indeed this is the case) If ever this agreement becomes the subject of legal action you must demonstrate that you have made every effort to be reasonable with the creditor or there sols.

Can you just confirm that you haven’t signed a new agreement combining the loan and current account together.

Then we can discuss the Default Notice in more detail.

  • Haha 1
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No I didn't sign anything at all. When I cca'd them they also sent statements through for the overdraft and the loan. I'm in the process of trying to claim back charges on the overdraft but they have replied saying that due to the test case they will wait for that outcome!!

 

When I got the statements I noticed that they had continued to pay the monthly loan payment from my overdraft further increasing the overdraft and charging me anything upto £125 each month too in charges. I couldn't cancel the DD as they wouldn't allow it.

 

Around the time I sorted a payment plan out with DG (I had buried my head in the sand for a while) the overdraft was increased and the loan was paid off. Thinking now this must be around the time they defaulted me as the account was closed on the loan statements, but like I say I didn't sign or agree to any of this or get a default notice

 

Thank You for your help

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Okay – I must admit this one is getting away from me here but can you now confirm that they have increased your overdraft to pay off the loan – or have I got my wires crossed.

Also, if you’ve paid off the loan then the agreement is actually at an end.

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Thats exactly what they did. By the look of the statements the balance of the loan was set to zero and closed and the overdraft was increased by the loan amount. The overdraft and the loan are now seen as 1 amount but I was never told this was going to happen and I never signed for anything to happen. Since April 08 I have been paying around £80 a month to them for the total of 2 accounts. It's not £40 for the loan and £40 for the overdraft it's just £80 for the 1 account as they have it now.

 

Hope I'm making sense there

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Okay – this changes the whole situation – not sure how to go about things here but by the sounds of things HSBC have closed a loan account (without your consent) and transferred the balance to your current account (again without your consent) and this breaches the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

As far as I am concerned (and I need to give this a little thought) you should be able to dispute the whole of the current account – this will still be under the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

You might need to do a D.S.A.R (unless you’ve done one already) we need to see that default notice.

I’m going to think this one through for a while and will post later on but if anyone else has something to add then please be my guest.

We will get to the bottom of this one!

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Okay – I would suggest a D.S.A.R and you can use one of the template letters from here. We really need to see that default notice so I suggest you specifically request a copy of your loan agreement and a copy of the default notice issued against the agreement and a copy of your bank account agreement/application. If you are not up to that then let me know and I will put one together for you.

 

Send the above (recorded delivery) to the Data Controller at the HSBC registered office which is:

 

HSBC Bank plc

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

Next – as I suggested earlier – you need to send a letter to the sols confirming that your position hasn’t changed and you cannot pay any more than has previously been agreed and in fact you would like to reduce the payments if possible. That will at least buy you a little time whilst you await the results of the D.S.A.R

 

I am assuming that you no longer use this account and you have access to another bank account if required.

 

That’s just for starters – okay

 

TBH I’m still a bit perplexed as to why the HSBC has done this.

 

Considering the time of year then it’s probably best if you wait until early Jan ’09 before you send out the letters – make a post when you have just as a reminder.

 

Have a nice Xmas and try not to let it worry you – okay.

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  • 5 months later...

Hi

 

 

I had 3 accounts with HSBC

  1. A Credit Card - I've been asking for a CCA since Nov 2008 and to date they haven't sent it. They have defaulted me on this
  2. A loan - They sent me a CCA for this account but when they defaulted me they brought the balance of the account to 0 and paid it off through my current account.
  3. The Current Account - Got lots of charges on which I have asked for back but they have said that I can't do anything until the Court Case has been decided about unfair bank charges. They have also defaulted me with this. They have increased the overdraft firstly through charges to pay the DD (They wouldn't let me cancel these) for the loan and credit card. Also the loan has been put into my current account.

I was getting nowhere with HSBC and have sent off a S.A.R., that was meant to be in my local branch today but it wasn't. Rang the Data Protection Office and they have said it will be in by midday tomorrow.

 

I can't remember getting any Default Notices for any of the accounts or Termination Letters. I know that if they did send them then they will be in the SAR tomorrow when I get it.

 

Over the last week I have been doing a lot of reading about defective DN's and how if the DN is defective when they terminate the account all they can claim from you is the arrears. I know all 3 accounts are terminated as I have checked wih several CRA's.

 

The 2 threads I have been reading alot are

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/170345-tale-dodgy-dn-17.html#post2228461

and

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/196312-invalid-default-notices-8.html#post2226019

 

Now with account 2, which is the loan agreement they have paid it off with account 3 the overdraft. So am I right in thinking that the account no longer stands? Any Arrears that they may have put on a DN if they had sent one are now paid off and that is the end of the loan?

 

With Account 3 I never agreed to the loan (Account 2) being put into the overdraft (Account 3). So therefor how can I be liable for that. I also know that the current account has charges on it as I have seen the statements so if they had sent the DN it would be defective.

 

Is there anything else I should check on the SAR when I get it tomorrow?

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Got the SAR today and not one default notice, termination letter or Credit Agreement for any of the 3 accounts!! Just been looking through everything and going to start all over again with the paperwork to make sure I haven't missed anything.

 

The reason I started all of this was not to avoid paying my debts. The company I used to work for started to go down the pan early last year and I was struggling big time with the payments. I wrote to them asking for help and they said tuff. Then started hitting me with unfair charges that pushed me over the Overdraft limit and then I would be hit with more charges because the overdraft limit was still over because of their charges. I tried to cancel the Direct Debits on the Card and the loan but they wouldn't allow me. They kept taking payments from the current account for the loan and card and then hitting me with even more charges and interest. I just buried my head in the sand for a bit before finding this site and thought I'd fight back!!

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Hiya Pipster and welcome to the HSBC forum :) you have loads of issues with the bank here :rolleyes:

 

I;m sorry I'm working from a laptop at the moment as I'm away from home so I don't have the links to hand but Johnny will be along to post those if no one else sees this before hes about :)

 

So first your credit card. They have failed to respond to your CCA section 78 request so its in dispute and they must remove the default they have placed on your record because of this.

 

Next the loan. it doesn't matter what they have done with it, if they have not sent you a copy of the agreement its the same as your credit card, in dispute.

 

Finally the current account, they are allowed to "set off" amounts you owe from one account to another BUT if your letters asking for your charges back were before the date they defaulted you then they have been naughty again.

 

pete

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Hiya Pipster and welcome to the HSBC forum :) you have loads of issues with the bank here :rolleyes:

 

I;m sorry I'm working from a laptop at the moment as I'm away from home so I don't have the links to hand but Johnny will be along to post those if no one else sees this before hes about :)

 

Hi pipster , welcome to the forum - :( I'm having sporadic internet contact tonight so forgive me if this cuts off while I'm still dealing with you ....... I think the first letter you want now is the 'Incomplete SAR' where you can list all the documents you think are missing :

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/129-data-protection-act-non-compliance-template-letters-

 

 

 

So first your credit card. They have failed to respond to your CCA section 78 request so its in dispute and they must remove the default they have placed on your record because of this.

 

I think pete's letter on this , amended to suit you , would get the message across ........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/164871-castlebests-default-removal.html#post1946244

 

Next the loan. it doesn't matter what they have done with it, if they have not sent you a copy of the agreement its the same as your credit card, in dispute.

 

As with the loan , if they haven't produced this with your SAR - tell them in the SAR letter.... and stress that ,until they produce all the info you require , these accounts are in dispute.

 

Finally the current account, they are allowed to "set off" amounts you owe from one account to another BUT if your letters asking for your charges back were before the date they defaulted you then they have been naughty again.

 

pete

 

What stage is your claim for refund of charges at pipster ? Have you sent a Letter Before Action (LBA) ? If not you should do so asap . so you can get your claim into court , awaiting the House of Lords judgement on the OFTcase (and earning 8% interest while it's waiting ...

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/112-letter-before-action-bank-charges

 

Quite a bit to take in at the moment I know ,pipster- but take it a step at a time , starting with the SAR non-comopliance letter and you'll get there .

and of course , come back and ask anytime you need further info - someone will answer - and we're a friendly lot on here ...... :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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As an afterthought pipster , this one ,suitably amended , might also get their attention ......

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/110742-bls-no-cca-but.html#post1143624

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Right with regards to the loan, they had sent me through the CCA which is listed below. I always was under the impression that they couldn't just pay it off with my current account!! Is the CCA valid?

 

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Pipster2797/Doc1Page1of4.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Pipster2797/Doc1Page2of4.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Pipster2797/Doc1Page3of4.jpg

4th page is just blank and they also in the same pack sent the below

 

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Pipster2797/Doc2Page1of4.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Pipster2797/Doc2Page2of4.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Pipster2797/Doc2Page3of4.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Pipster2797/Doc2Page4of4.jpg

 

Current Account - The charges letter was sent to them after they had defaulted me. They have placed the account on hold at the moment and no payments are being made untilt the hearing of the test case. I haven't applied to the court as didn't know I had to. I just thought it would all be sorted out once the test case was heard.

 

Credit Card - Still no CCA at all for this one. I have had a blank one but that is it. This was also defaulted before I asked for the CCA.

 

That incomplere SAR letter will be posted this morning

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