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HSBC v Pipster - Court Tomorrow!! *****Discontinued*****


Pipster2797
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Hi

 

I had an overdraft and an unsecured loan with HSBC and earlier this year I ended up with defaults on them due to being made redundant.

 

Recently I have sent a CCA Request to all my creditors because they are being difficult with payments(I've already posted about Northern Rock in another thread).

 

DG Solictors (The in house team of HSBC) are dealing with the loan and overdraft I had with HSBC. They have always treated it as one amount and not 2 seperate ones. I had a reply from my CCA request saying they going back to HSBC for the CCA for the loan(Which has now gone past the 12+2 days and I have sent off the relevant letter) but the current account didn't come under the Consumer Credit Act(which I did know)

 

In with it were statements for both the loan and current account. Looking at the statements for the current account they have added £800 in charges since July 2007!! Also at the end of the statements they have upped the overdraft to pay off the loan. I didn't sign anything for this. Both accounts are now closed and I'm trying to pay a certain amount of the total amount each month.

 

Does that mean there should be a new agreement for both. I'm totally confused as to why they would of done this. Or should I be still treating them as 2 accounts?

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The accounts should be treated as seperate, and I suspect that HSBC are perfectly well aware of this, which is why they've done the overdraft trick to pay off the loan.

 

You will need to be robust with HSBC and DG. In my experience, they will push as much as they can, but will stop short of putting themselves in the position of explaining themselves to a judge.

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So they have used it to pay off the loan because the overdraft does not fall under the CCA? I can't believe that banks would actually do this. This has to be unlawful. The Overdraft was around £3,000 with charges and then the loan was around £5,000 too.

 

Not sure of how to go about this now. As said above I have sent the 12+2 days letter to DG Solictors for the loan and wasn't going to do anything else until I got the CCA.

 

With the Overdraft I was going to S.A.R. HSBC to confirm all charges and then put a claim in for the total amount as this would reduce the overdraft. At the same time sending this letter to DG Solictors

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir/Madam,

Your ref: XXXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter of **DATE**, the contents of which are noted.

I am disputing the total value of these debts with HSBC due to unlawful and unreasonable charges. As such, therefore, I consider this account to be in dispute and no further action or payment shall be made until this matter is resolved

 

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt

This process may take some time, due to the Office of Fair Trading's test case, but I will try to expedite this issue as a matter of urgency

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter

I look forward to hearing from you in writing

Yours faithfully

 

Would anyone still recomend me doing this? Or is there a better route I should be going down?

Edited by Pipster2797
Mistake
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I had a credit card balance of £1800 and overdraft of £400 with HSBC and they discussed on phone that they could transfer credit card debt to overdraft -and so it was just one payment per month at reduced level. and then confirmed in writing to me they had done this. I could not believe the haste they wanted to do this - but now I can see why.

 

I had payment protection with the credit card - and I was ill at the time -

so I could have claimed on that.

 

Anyway DG went to court for total - I defended - and heard nothing since. (so far anyway!)

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Thing is I didn't speak to them or agree to them doing this. I'm going to send off the letter about bank charges to HSBC to start the ball rolling with the £800 charges and then write to DG saying that the amount owed is in dispute!! With regards to the loan I'm still waiting for the CCA

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I have also heard back about my HSBC Credit Card today that I took out in 2001. This was their reply

 

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Pipster2797/CCAreply13-11.jpg

 

They haven't enclosed anything in this except for this letter. Would sending a S.A.R. by right now to not only see if they do have it but also to see what charges have been on the card?

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  • 1 month later...

Just wanted to check. I CCA'd HSBC over a loan I took out in 2006. I sent the request off in early october and have just received the CCA. The prescribed terms are on page 2 of 4 and my signature is on page 3 of 4.

 

Would this still be enforceable? How do I know that the 2nd page with the prescribed terms on was the 2nd page when I took the loan out? They could of changed that 2nd page at any time

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42man is usually good on stuff like this but in this instance i am inclined to disagree.

 

I am not aware of any mention of a difference in prescribed terms in the CCA, depending on where it is signed but he has more experience than me and I may be wrong.

 

I would hope that someone can put us right here.

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Also the four corners dont' mean the same page it can be a number of pages in the same document as long as its linked...

 

I would suggest any document that has page 1 of 4 upto 4 of 4 would be deemed as linked...

Live Life-Debt Free

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My understainding is different than yours on that B3 - by within the 4 corners I understood it to mean physically on the same sheet of paper.

 

Or are you suggesting that this was a book type document a3 size with 2 a4 pages printed either side. if so I would agree with you.

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then I am not sure if they are not on the same physical piece of paper how do they prove that the prescribed terms are the ones that were on the document you signed.

 

I personally think this would be unenforceable but I would really like someone elses opinion.

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Also after looking at the CCA again I would say they have sent me the original and not a photocopy either!! It just doesnt look like a photocopy. I really hope they have sent me the original as it would mean that they no longer have a copy. Surely thought they cant be that stupid

 

Think I will write to DG Solictors and say that I still have not recieved my CCA and remind them that it is in dispute then if it is a copy they can send it again. It wasn't sent recorded del

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Its been established many times in these forums that the four corners refers to the document not the same page..

 

If this went to court they would need to prove that it was the same document you would need to prove it wasn't

 

With the pages numbered 1 of 4 etc this would be quite hard to do.

Live Life-Debt Free

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That is a course of action I personally would not recommend.

 

It is a direct untruth and should you be caught out in a lie then the courts would lose all sympathy for you.

 

besides just because they have sent the original doesnt mean they havent kept a copy.

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Can you post up a copy of the agreement minus any personal details.

 

The four corners of the agreement argument is a little murky and if necessary a judge would have to decide if all 4 pages were linked – the bank would also say that you were given a copy of the agreement to keep and this would be a way of verifying that the document was indeed the one you signed. In all probability a judge would have no problem in believing that all 4 pages constituted a single document – a document does not need to be a single sheet of paper and does not need to be physically bound together.

 

I like you cannot believe that the bank would have sent you the original but even so it is highly likely that they have kept a copy on file.

 

Was this a top up loan by any chance?

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