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    • Thank you. MCOL all done. Does my CPR 31.14 request letter seem okay? ****** ****** ****** *****   Lowell Solicitors Limited PO Box 1419 Northampton NN2 1BU   21st October 2019   Dear Sir/Madam,   Re: Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd v Mr ****** ****** Case No: *********** CPR 31.14 Request   On Friday 18th October 2019 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court Business Centre.   I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.   Prior to the issue of proceedings, I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored.   Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:   1: The Agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.   2: Notice of Assignment   3: The Default Notice   4: The Termination Notice   5: Statement of Account      Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £10,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.    You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.   Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.   In accordance with CPR 31.15, I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.   If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request, please confirm this in your response.     Yours faithfully,   *************
    • Documents sent to Idem & Court. Received by the Court on the day required (assume Idem will get it same time too??).  Just sit and wait now??
    • Thanks dx. Heard nothing from the court yet. Finally manage to finish redacting and compressing the documents. I've attached one to this message and the other to the next message.  Binder2_compressed.pdf   file number 2 Binder4_compressed.pdf file number 3. sorry for the trouble @dx100uk, I couldn't find how to compress it further.  Binder5_compressed.pdf   There is an application form for the loan which has my name and address on the first page. It has the account number on the last page on which I signed. For the life of me I cannot remember taking this loan, but I must have. It is not too strange. Because of my previous stress I am not able to remember quite alot of things.  I'm not sure what I should do next. I've been trying to read other threads but I am really lost. Can I make a defense or is it best for me to contact the DCA and make a payment arrangement?
    • always better to re read your thread 1st.....😁
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Pipster2797

Prescribed Terms and Sig on Different Pages

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Just wanted to check. I CCA'd HSBC over a loan I took out in 2006. I sent the request off in early october and have just received the CCA. The prescribed terms are on page 2 of 4 and my signature is on page 3 of 4.

 

Would this still be enforceable? How do I know that the 2nd page with the prescribed terms on was the 2nd page when I took the loan out? They could of changed that 2nd page at any time

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Was it signed for in branch ?


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

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As far as I am aware the prescribed terms must be on the SAME sheet of paper (within the four corners) as the signature (they can be on the reverse side.)


Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.

 

If my advice or information has assisted you in any way - please click my scales.

 

thanks

 

Nat West Charges £1056 WON

RBS Charges £3600 WON

RBS Unenforceable Loan £18500 Pending

RBS PPI on loan above Pending

MBNA Credit Card CCA & SAR Sent

Co-op Credit Card CCA Sent

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yes it was signed for in a branch.

 

The sig is not on the back its on a different sheet

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I may not be 100% on this but if it was signed for in branch, then it may well be enforceable, but I would await some more input on this...


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Thank You 42 man, i'll wait and see what anyone else says

 

I don't understand how it can be because in theory they could change the loan amount, the rate etc and just put a new sheet in there and say that is what I signed for

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42man is usually good on stuff like this but in this instance i am inclined to disagree.

 

I am not aware of any mention of a difference in prescribed terms in the CCA, depending on where it is signed but he has more experience than me and I may be wrong.

 

I would hope that someone can put us right here.


Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.

 

If my advice or information has assisted you in any way - please click my scales.

 

thanks

 

Nat West Charges £1056 WON

RBS Charges £3600 WON

RBS Unenforceable Loan £18500 Pending

RBS PPI on loan above Pending

MBNA Credit Card CCA & SAR Sent

Co-op Credit Card CCA Sent

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Also the four corners dont' mean the same page it can be a number of pages in the same document as long as its linked...

 

I would suggest any document that has page 1 of 4 upto 4 of 4 would be deemed as linked...


Live Life-Debt Free

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thats what i don't understand. how do i know that is what i signed for. They could have chnaged it and could change it again in the future

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My understainding is different than yours on that B3 - by within the 4 corners I understood it to mean physically on the same sheet of paper.

 

Or are you suggesting that this was a book type document a3 size with 2 a4 pages printed either side. if so I would agree with you.


Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.

 

If my advice or information has assisted you in any way - please click my scales.

 

thanks

 

Nat West Charges £1056 WON

RBS Charges £3600 WON

RBS Unenforceable Loan £18500 Pending

RBS PPI on loan above Pending

MBNA Credit Card CCA & SAR Sent

Co-op Credit Card CCA Sent

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then I am not sure if they are not on the same physical piece of paper how do they prove that the prescribed terms are the ones that were on the document you signed.

 

I personally think this would be unenforceable but I would really like someone elses opinion.


Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.

 

If my advice or information has assisted you in any way - please click my scales.

 

thanks

 

Nat West Charges £1056 WON

RBS Charges £3600 WON

RBS Unenforceable Loan £18500 Pending

RBS PPI on loan above Pending

MBNA Credit Card CCA & SAR Sent

Co-op Credit Card CCA Sent

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thank you flyingdoc I would agree with you. I feel a little more at ease and will wait to see what anyone else says.

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Also after looking at the CCA again I would say they have sent me the original and not a photocopy either!! It just doesnt look like a photocopy. I really hope they have sent me the original as it would mean that they no longer have a copy. Surely thought they cant be that stupid

 

Think I will write to DG Solictors and say that I still have not recieved my CCA and remind them that it is in dispute then if it is a copy they can send it again. It wasn't sent recorded del

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Its been established many times in these forums that the four corners refers to the document not the same page..

 

If this went to court they would need to prove that it was the same document you would need to prove it wasn't

 

With the pages numbered 1 of 4 etc this would be quite hard to do.


Live Life-Debt Free

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That is a course of action I personally would not recommend.

 

It is a direct untruth and should you be caught out in a lie then the courts would lose all sympathy for you.

 

besides just because they have sent the original doesnt mean they havent kept a copy.


Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.

 

If my advice or information has assisted you in any way - please click my scales.

 

thanks

 

Nat West Charges £1056 WON

RBS Charges £3600 WON

RBS Unenforceable Loan £18500 Pending

RBS PPI on loan above Pending

MBNA Credit Card CCA & SAR Sent

Co-op Credit Card CCA Sent

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Can you post up a copy of the agreement minus any personal details.

 

The four corners of the agreement argument is a little murky and if necessary a judge would have to decide if all 4 pages were linked – the bank would also say that you were given a copy of the agreement to keep and this would be a way of verifying that the document was indeed the one you signed. In all probability a judge would have no problem in believing that all 4 pages constituted a single document – a document does not need to be a single sheet of paper and does not need to be physically bound together.

 

I like you cannot believe that the bank would have sent you the original but even so it is highly likely that they have kept a copy on file.

 

Was this a top up loan by any chance?

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Right took a while to sort the scanner out but here they are. It all came together but seems to be 2 sets of documents both of 4 pages but the first one only has 3 pages, they have left the 4th one out.

 

So here is the 3 pages and the 4th missing

 

Doc1Page1of4.jpg

Doc1Page2of4.jpg

Doc1Page3of4.jpg

 

and here is the 2nd lot of docs

 

Doc2Page1of4.jpg

Doc2Page2of4.jpg

Doc2Page3of4.jpg

Doc2Page4of4.jpg

 

All of that was stapled together along with an Application record. Thats where its there form they fill in with what id they have taken etc and decision details. Certainly its something I would say I wasn't meant to get which is why I thought they may have sent me the original instead of a photocopy. There is no staple marks on any of the sheets except for the one it cam with. It doesn't look like a photocopy

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For this type of agreement the prescribed terms are ‘Amount of credit’ and this is stated as Amount of loan and the ‘Repayments’ and these have been clearly stated and seem to add up.

This agreement looks to be enforceable – the only way it could be deemed unenforceable with respect to s127 (3) of the CCA is if the prescribed terms have been misstated – so did you receive unrestricted access to the amount stated in the loan and were the payments taken out of your account in the amounts and on the days stated in the agreement?

Doesn’t give you much to go on – are you struggling to keep up with the payments and if so can you manage a reduced payment plan?

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Ive been on a reduced payment plan with them for a while. I was made redundant at the start of Sept so trying to re-sort payment plans out but they are trying to get me to increase payments.

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Okay – understand.

Not sure where you can go with this one other than for you to put forward continued justification to stay on a reduced payment plan – if nothing has changed in your circumstances and you couldn’t keep up the payments and they agreed to accept reduced payments then why are they putting pressure on you to increase them now?

Have they defaulted you on this agreement yet?

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that agreement is enforceable,

 

it is in the form required by Regulation 2 & schedule 1 of SI 1983/1553 with the correct headings and correct information under those headings

 

the prescribed terms per schedule 6 SI 1983/1553 are there and in the correct place as is the information required by schedule 2 of SI 1983/1553

 

therefore the agreement is enforceable

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yes they have defaulted me over this. they also merged it into my overdraft that i had with them.

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