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    • I'm trying to think in terms of tactics here.   Because the vehicle purchase has been made on hire purchase, that means that the finance company is the owner of the vehicle and strictly speaking your direct action is against them in breach of contract because they have all the obligations to you under the consumer rights act that they would have if they had been the dealer. On the other hand I still like the idea of going against the dealer – which you could do on the basis that you enjoy third party rights of direct action under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. Of course you could sue the finance company and you could win – in fact you probably will win: there is clearly been some kind of misrepresentation at the very least – and maybe a deception. It's rather a coincidence isn't it that certain important information has been omitted from the documents supplied to you. However, if you sue the finance company then I don't think it will provide a quick solution. From what you have told us so far it seems to me that there is a certain urgency. I think that the finance company will simply get into obstructive mode and simply try to cause you trouble – because they will instruct their usual solicitors – and I'm afraid to say that solicitors are incapable of taking a pragmatic view. The longer it goes on then the more they can charge the client. The more obstructive they can be then the more there client naïvely is impressed – and at the end of the day the more obstructive they become, the more likely they are to wear you down and to achieve some kind of negotiated settlement where you agree to sacrifice some of what you are entitled to – and the client – the finance company then sees that as some kind of – Win. I think a quicker route to success is to sue the dealer – and at the same time you could bring an FOS complaint against the finance company. Of course if you sue the dealer, they will start off by pleading that you don't have a contract with them. That's true – but you would be relying on the provisions of the 1999 act – and it is clear that you are an intended beneficiary of the contract and I scarcely imagine that they have expressly excluded your rights to bring an action against the dealer. I would expect they hadn't even thought about it. One of the rules about bringing a complaint to the financial ombudsman service is that you are not allowed to do that if there is a legal action underway at the same time. I can imagine that if you brought a complaint against them to the FOS, that the finance company will plead that there is a legal action – but I think that you would have a good argument to say that the legal action is against the dealer and that the complaint to the FOS is clearly independent of that legal action. The FOS is very cosy with finance companies – and they may accept the position of the finance company and refuse to be involved – but on the other hand they may side with you and continue with their investigation against the finance company. This would mean that you would have two irons in the fire at the same time. You could simply bring a complaint against the finance company to the FOS – but as I've already suggested, this will take an awful long time and it may not be resolved before 12 months is up – meanwhile you have the problem of not having the vehicle. So my favourite course of action at the moment is to threaten the dealer with a legal action on the basis of your third party rights – and separately to begin a complaint to the FOS about the finance company. I think the dealer would be extremely surprised to find that they were subject to the legal action when they had thought that they are being protected by the hire purchase rules. However, I think that they would eventually be obliged to confront the reality that they were going to be a defendant in the court case. I think they are the weakest link and they are the route to getting the fastest result. I see that the dealers describe themselves as some kind of finance company themselves. But I don't notice any FCA registration or any other signs that they are a finance company or that they have the kind of expertise behind them which you would expect the finance company. Have you any further ideas on that point?  
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GOOD NEWS !!!!!! LLoyds business claim(95 to 98)

I have a hearing .... application to have stay lifted on 28th May

although it is 3 months away, I hope Lloyds/ martin O Johnson will try to settle before then

I assume I would have to pay this £300 fee before the hearing ???????

 

this encourages me to apply for HSBC stay lifted

KBO

If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

 

Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

 

CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

 

RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

 

Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

 

First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

 

plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.

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Excellent! A long wait, but as you say, they might be persuaded to settle in advance. Depends on how they view the pre-six year factor.

 

I assume I would have to pay this £300 fee before the hearing ???????

 

 

Yes, but I think i would be checking with the court as to how long before the event it needs to be paid, to avoid a discontinuation.

 

Els

BANK CHARGES CAMPAIGN CONTINUES - PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION

 

Aktiv Kapital £300.00 SETTLED IN FULL

Capital One £741.47 SETTLED IN FULL

Citi Cards £1221.00 SETTLED IN FULL

LTSB(personal) £3854.28 SETTLED IN FULL

LTSB(business) £7487.97 SETTLED IN FULL

 

What poor education I have received has been gained in the University of Life

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Hi LC,

 

I don't know if this will be enough for bank to settle - they may decide to simply oppose the lifting of the Stay.

 

At least the delay gives you time to put together the best reasons you can find for the Stay being lifted.

We could do with some help from you

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Saw this and thought of you - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/80397-martin3030-barclays-business-round.html#post1418471

 

Very interesting as it goes along the same lines as my letter to bank.

We could do with some help from you

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  • 2 months later...

I got my stay lifted, and a hearing about the pre 6 years limitation act to be scheduled within next 6 weeks.... cannot say much more, I am waiting for the instructions from the judge

KBO

If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

 

Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

 

CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

 

RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

 

Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

 

First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

 

plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.

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Are you happy with arguing the limitations issue? I assume you are familiar with the High court case relating to the penalty issue. Do you have a copy of the T & Cs for the period claimed?

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Looking at my papers from Lloyds in 1997, they refer to the "consumer credit act" as the basis for a loan, which paid back charges and interest etc. I cannot find any T&C's from this period.

I will research the limitations act arguments when I get my next court date. I am in court again today to remove stay on my Midlands business claim

KBO

If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

 

Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

 

CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

 

RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

 

Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

 

First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

 

plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.

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I have a couple of letters received by myself from Lloyds upon the event of some charges upon a Business account.

They clearly present the charges as pertaining to costs.

They are from 2000 and 2001, so although not from the period included in your claim if they are now claiming a defence of "fees' or "service charges" these letters are indicative of concealment, and I do believe that any act at any time is sufficient to cite and invoke this.

 

I do also have a copy of their Business banking account charges leaflet from 1998 which very definitely states that such charges are levied to cover additional work involved on their behalf (and also states this occurs when you exceed your overdraft limit without prior agreement).

I can let you have a copy of this also (I did send it off to the CAG library, so it's available through there as well)

 

If you want copies of any of these send me a PM with an email address.

 

PM

  • Haha 1

---------------------------

ARE YOU A BUSINESS CLAIMANT?

 

CAG NOW HAVE A BUSINESS CLAIMS FORUM !

GO HERE !

 

CAN'T FIND WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR?

 

Look here.

Got your old T&C's ?

Visit this thread to help others.

 

-----------------------------

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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sorry about delay in posting

I am still waiting for the court order following the lifting of Lloyds stay... over a week ago

The identical result happened yesterday for lifting of my HSBC business stay... same judge/same result

He quizzed me about what my claim is now following the test case result

He pointed out common law/no penalty.

I couldn't reply.... all I said was that the test case judge said historic T&C's might be different.(????)... I definitely need 95-98 HSBC T&C's.

They had a local solicitor there and she suggested asking HSBC main solicitor for the info... Also I might ask the bank

KBO

If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

 

Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

 

CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

 

RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

 

Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

 

First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

 

plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.

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Excellent advice zoot

I still haven't had the court orders (LLoyds and HSBC)

I will phone both LLoyds & HSBC tomorrow and ask for relevant historic T&C's

I will also write to them/copy to solicitors saying that if they don't supply will put in part 18 requests. I am hoping it will flush them out and they will make offers

KBO

If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

 

Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

 

CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

 

RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

 

Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

 

First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

 

plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.

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  • 2 weeks later...

court order arrived... 7th Aug to hear limitation as a preliminary issue

will need T&C's from 95 to 99 by then

KBO

If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

 

Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

 

CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

 

RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

 

Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

 

First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

 

plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.

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  • 1 month later...

SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LLoyds/Martin O Johnson have paid in full..... including compound interest going back to 1995

As usual banks will do almost anything to avoid going to court

this time the next hearing was to consider limitation

Historic terms and conditions seems to do the trick

KBO

If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

 

Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

 

CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

 

RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

 

Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

 

First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

 

plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.

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Hi LC,

 

Fantastic news and I'm delighted for you ! :D

 

I hope this shakes things up a bit re Business claims.

 

CONGRATULATIONS

We could do with some help from you

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EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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Absolutely fantastic - Well done :grin:

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Brilliant news- well done!:D

Any advice given by me is based solely on my experience in claiming, my experience in CAG or my opinion. I have no legal background. I want to encourage others to reclaim what is theirs.

 

Got a DCA breaking OFT guidance. Complain to the OFT about the DCA. Help put an end to these practices-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/letter-templates/155095-complain-oft-about-unfair.html#post1652270

 

Register with CAG today, its free, its a great community:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/register.php

 

kennythecelt@consumeractiongroup.co.uk.

 

 

 

Thankyou Kennythecelt:)

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CONGRATULATIONS!!

 

Well done, LC.

 

Good news for business claimants and for LTSB claimants in particular!:D

 

Best wishes

Els

BANK CHARGES CAMPAIGN CONTINUES - PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION

 

Aktiv Kapital £300.00 SETTLED IN FULL

Capital One £741.47 SETTLED IN FULL

Citi Cards £1221.00 SETTLED IN FULL

LTSB(personal) £3854.28 SETTLED IN FULL

LTSB(business) £7487.97 SETTLED IN FULL

 

What poor education I have received has been gained in the University of Life

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:D

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Donation made

KBO

If you can't fight, wear a big hat.

 

Halifax... 2 successful claims....£518

 

CitiCards..... judgement and cheque (26/7/07) .... won £900

 

RBS business..... .....stay lifted reissued N1..... won £2105

 

Midland1 business.1996/1997.. first letter (27/6/07)....£1470

 

First Direct...... first letter (30/6/07).... £839.... stayed

 

plus another 13 banks/business/cc's to come for £10,000 plus.

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Great.

 

BTW in all the exitement-no one remembered to change the header....so am delighted to do the honours and add the magic words.

Will leave here so that everyone can see it :D

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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  • 4 months later...

Pm a team member to get your thread moved here if you win.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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