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Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???


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The majority opinion in Westdeutsche was that there was no need to change practice to allow compound interest except in cases of fraud or breach of trust. The minority opinion was that, in this daya and age, no one uses simple interest for anything and therefore compound interest should be allowed.

 

The majority opinion in Sempra was to uphold the minority view in Westdeutsche - that compound interest is allowable even in cases not involving fraud or breach of trust.

 

Thus Sempra removes the bar on compound interest. Of course, persuadiung a judge to actually award compound interest is a different matter as hagenuk implies.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Actually, it's not about luck but about being right! ;)

Have a great w/e everyone ...

'Fortune favours the brave.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any advice given is purely on the basis of my own views and opinions and offered in good faith.

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The majority opinion in Westdeutsche was that there was no need to change practice to allow compound interest except in cases of fraud or breach of trust. The minority opinion was that, in this daya and age, no one uses simple interest for anything and therefore compound interest should be allowed.

 

The majority opinion in Sempra was to uphold the minority view in Westdeutsche - that compound interest is allowable even in cases not involving fraud or breach of trust.

 

Thus Sempra removes the bar on compound interest. Of course, persuadiung a judge to actually award compound interest is a different matter as hagenuk implies.

 

Very interesting debate. I think "removes the bar on compound interest" is a bit strong and what actually happened was that the Court decided that no interest, whether compound or simple, was recoverable at common law and the court was considered to have no jurisdiction to make an award of compound interest on a personal claim for restitution of a sum of money paid by mistake or following an unlawful demand (Westdeutsche v Islington), but sometimes interest, compound as well as simple, was recoverable in equity.

 

However, in Sempra Metals Ltdv Inland Revenue an award of compound interest was necessary to achieve full restitution and, hence, a just result. Lord Nicholls held that, in the exercise of its common-law restitutionary jurisdiction, the court had power to make such an award.

 

Here, as elsewhere, the law of restitution was sufficiently flexible to achieve a just result. To avoid what would otherwise be an unjust outcome the court could, in an appropriate case, depart from the market-value approach when assessing the time value of money or, indeed, when assessing the value of any other benefit gained by a defendant.

 

The interest rate for any restitutionary claim therefore should be the rate at which you could borrow the relevant amounts you state you have lost in the market at the relevant time. Somewhat far short of the rates that many of these claims are made for and very probably the reason that so many of them are bound to fail. Couple that with the desire to have these cases heard on the Small Claims Track and you begin to see why so many are simply dismissed.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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I have been following this debate with interest as I need to put together a skeleton argument to support my credit card claim for contractual interest being paid out vs the standard 8% for a hearing to argue the point. I can't find any thread which has such a template. Would it be safe(ish) as far as these things go to use the #2051 argument as a starting point. And yes I do know that these are opinions not facts but I do need to start somewhere. Any help or opinions would be very welcome.

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I have been following this debate with interest as I need to put together a skeleton argument to support my credit card claim for contractual interest being paid out vs the standard 8% for a hearing to argue the point. I can't find any thread which has such a template. Would it be safe(ish) as far as these things go to use the #2051 argument as a starting point. And yes I do know that these are opinions not facts but I do need to start somewhere. Any help or opinions would be very welcome.

 

We're in the same boat and that's what I'll be doing. I trust Steven's knowledge and skills ... :wink: Go to the Cases Library and read the Sempra case :)

'Fortune favours the brave.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any advice given is purely on the basis of my own views and opinions and offered in good faith.

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The interest rate for any restitutionary claim therefore should be the rate at which you could borrow the relevant amounts you state you have lost in the market at the relevant time. Somewhat far short of the rates that many of these claims are made for and very probably the reason that so many of them are bound to fail.
I agree entirely. I have always advocate using one's ow bank's authorised overdraft rate for these claims on exactly those gruonds.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would like to claim the contractual rate in my store card claim against Argos, but I have come up against rather a huge snag. Either my maths is off (more than likely), or the calculator I used for my interest gave me an inaccurate total as it is scarcely more than the 8% I originally calculated.

 

There is more detail in my thread (linked below) if anyone can clarify things for me I would be very grateful.

 

Many thanks!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-stores/113927-shoe-em-argos-store.html

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Emily x

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If it is a very short timescale that may be right. Where compound interest really takes off is over long periods.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Prelim and Schedule of charges for Currrent Account and Credit Card prepared for Halifax today. Am claiming all the way back to the late 1980s for the charges and am claiming Contractual Interest at the Authorised o/d rate for the bank a/c and the purchase rate for the card; with S.69 in the alternative for both.

 

Current A/c a £9000-ish claim in the first instance and a £4000-ish claim if S.69 is applied. (actual charges were c.£2400).

 

Card is much lower - only £350 charges over 15 years for this one (what a relatively good boy I was hehe!), interest approx. £800 total £1150.

 

Reading up on case law & arguments and preparing docs for the next stages.

 

Both posted, affixed with shiny colourful CAG labels and lovingly adorned with the Royal Mail's finest hand-peeled, seasonal stamps. Happy Christmas, Howard!

:D

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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at 30% APR it roughly doubles every three years - a rule of thumb I use to check the interest is in the right ball park.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Hi

 

I used the 'blueyonder' spreadsheet. Although the charges went back a long time, they were few and far between. 15 charges between 1994 and 2007.

I used the purchase rate of 20.9%. Does this still sound wrong?

 

Mac

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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at 20.9% it doubles (approximately) every 3 1/2 years. So the interest on charges in 1994 should be about 16 times the original charge, and so on.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Thanks Steven

 

This sheet is working it out at, for example:

 

26/04/94 Late Payment Charge @ £10 123.30

 

So about 12.5x. The worksheet is showing today's date. Do you think something might be wrong here? :confused:

 

Mac

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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26/04/94 Late Payment Charge @ £10 123.30
That's right - I just checked it.
  • Haha 1

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Thanks very much for checking , Steven.

 

noomil060

 

How did you work that out? You cant have very many.
You're quite correct - I don't have many charges on the Credit Card claim - only 15 over 15 years - small beer when compared with others on CAG - but just as worth claiming! ;)
  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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  • 3 months later...

I would like to charge this rate but it is too complicated for me, I would have to pay someone to work it out

 

my barclaycard since asking for charges back has gone from 400 to 770 all charges as they have not put me in default but are adding charges every month (no more statements arriving though) + interest at a very high rate:eek:

 

I am going to cca them this week just in case as if I just go for the charges and 8 per cent I will still be in debt + the fact I cannot even afford to lodge a claim with mcol at the moment

 

Barclaycard Student credit card £400 partial refund received, S.A.R -

Open & Direct Finance- extortionate, cca to Rockwell debt collection they ran away, now with Bryan Carter, no cca 17/03/08 sent back to Open

Pugsley v Littlwoods, have not received the signed credit agreement only quoting reg of 1983

Pugsley v Fashion World JD williams, 17/03 2008 Debt Managers returning file to JD williams as they could not supply the credit agreement

Capital one MCOL Settled in full

Smile lba settled in full

advice is given informally and without liability and without prejudice.

 

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The spreadsheet works it out for you. It really is NOT as difficult as you think. Charge them the rate and if you get stuck we will help out.

Me and Mrs P haven't lost one yet charging rates up to 30 % plus.

Good luck

Mr P

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And I've done several at 30% ish as well.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Hello Steven,

 

Sorry to jump in and ask what may by now be a silly question, but what is "Sempra"?? I have a large claim with Royal Bank of Scotland which has been on hold for a few months now as I wish to claim CI and they weren't playing ball so stopped everything when the test case was announced, only just getting back into it and i'm sure things have progressed :-o

SM:p

Paying interest on a loan caused by penalty charges? Read this!!

 

Very useful A-Z here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html?highlight=can%27t+find+what+you%27re+looking+for%3F

 

New strategy for Scots claims here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/71013-urgent-attention-please-read.html

 

Scottish procedure:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/42620-scottish-procedure.html

I am a layperson not a legal expert, my advice is offered without prejudice or liability, it is purely my opinion based on personal experience and should be treated as such. If in any doubt seek the advice of a qualified professional.

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The Sempra judgement - use the forum search tool to find more detailed discussions - provides the basis for claiming CI on the basis of restitution for your bank's unjust enrichment. Prior to this, most such claims relied on the principles of mutuality and reciprocity but this argument is now dead in the water.

NatWest: seeking unlawful charges + interest incurred as a result of those charges of £4,292.82 and contractual interest (compounded) of £4,559.41. Court claim issued 16.01.08; acknowledgement of service filled by Cobbetts on 30.01.08

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Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Thanks guys, very helpful.......i'll have a proper read of it tomorrow, going to bed now! :o

Paying interest on a loan caused by penalty charges? Read this!!

 

Very useful A-Z here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html?highlight=can%27t+find+what+you%27re+looking+for%3F

 

New strategy for Scots claims here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/71013-urgent-attention-please-read.html

 

Scottish procedure:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/42620-scottish-procedure.html

I am a layperson not a legal expert, my advice is offered without prejudice or liability, it is purely my opinion based on personal experience and should be treated as such. If in any doubt seek the advice of a qualified professional.

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Lucky you, i'm at work until 6am.

 

Sempra is quoted when claiming CI on the basis of restitution for your bank's unjust enrichment.

WARNING TO ALL

Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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