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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???


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hi could someone please help. Im really confused . If anyone has a spare minute would you please check this over for me and see if ive done it SCHEDULE OF CLAIM FOR CHARGES TOTAL INTEREST: £178.89 FROM:24 December 2004 TOTAL INC. INTEREST: £814.11 TO:11 May 2007 DAILY RATE (FOR CLAIM FORM): £0.43 TOTALS: £607.00£169.75£776.75 £28.21£9.14£37.36 DATE OF CHARGEPENALTY AMOUNTCOMPOUND INTERESTCOMBINED CHARGE & INTERESTDATE OF INTERESTINTEREST PAID ON PENALTIESCOMPOUND INTEREST ON INTERESTCOMBINED INTEREST & C. INTEREST 124/12/2004£20.00£15.91£35.9100/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00222/09/2005£32.00£15.83£47.8300/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00322/11/2005£30.00£13.03£43.0300/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00422/11/2005£35.00£15.20£50.2000/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00522/11/2005£35.00£15.20£50.2000/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00622/12/2005£20.00£8.11£28.1100/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00722/12/2005£30.00£12.17£42.1700/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00822/12/2005£35.00£14.20£49.2000/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00922/01/2006£35.00£13.18£48.1800/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.001022/02/2006£35.00£12.18£47.1800/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.001123/09/2006£20.00£3.35£23.3522/02/2005£0.20£0.14£0.341223/09/2006£30.00£5.03£35.0324/03/2005£0.16£0.11£0.271322/10/2006£35.00£5.08£40.0824/03/2005£0.21£0.15£0.361422/12/2006£20.00£1.98£21.9822/05/2005£0.00£0.00£0.00

 

 

 

Im keepin my fingers crossed that this is ok. Also just to demonstrate how dumb I am , am I right in sayin that its the amount in the Total Inc Interest box that im entitled to claim for isnt it. I dont add anything on do I ,

Sorry if i sound as though i dont know what im doin but ive sat here night after night tryin to figure this out . Percentages were never my forte . I read all the postings about this interest and that interest and my head starts to spin, when i discovered this spreadsheet and put my figures in and it started to calculate them youll never know how good i felt:)

 

Please tell me ive finally cracked it before it cracks me:???:

 

Thanks to whoever is kind enough to advise me on this. I know its my claim and I dont expect anyone to do it for me but, hey, we all need a wee bit of help sometimes , dont we.

 

regards:)

  • Haha 1

30-12-2006--Requested statements from Local Halifax.

02-02-2007--Statements Recieved.

18-04-2007--Prelim sent.

20-04-2007--Reply , Thanks , give us 8wks letter.

02-0502007--Sent L.B.A. & Schedule of Charges

11-05-2007--Recieved reply ,still investigating.

17-05-2007--Sent Amended L.B.A. for Contractual Interest this time.

14-06-2007--Received standard Bog Off letter.

13-06-2007--Took N1 to Local Courts.

26-06-2007--Copy of N1 from Court, issued 21-06-2007. to Halifax, Deemed Served 25-06-2007

Have till 09-07-2007 to file Defence.

05-07-2007--Note that Acknowledgment of Service been Filed on 29-06-2007.

Have 28 days from date of Service to File Defence.

07-07-2007--Offer from Halifax.

09-07-2007--Rejection letter sent to Halifax. Next day delivery.

10-07-2007--Money put in Account:mad:

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oh heck, I didnt realise it would look like that . Sorry i really thought it would look just the way i copied it all neat and in rows.

Dont blame anybody for not wantin to look now . OMG it looks so confusing . Ive used mindsia's sheet and i thought thats how it would show up.

Dont think anyone would be able to make head nor tails of this now :???: Oh well never mind ill trust to luck that its right and get a copy sent off tomorrow to the shabby for amended claim.

Thanks anyway.

regards:)

30-12-2006--Requested statements from Local Halifax.

02-02-2007--Statements Recieved.

18-04-2007--Prelim sent.

20-04-2007--Reply , Thanks , give us 8wks letter.

02-0502007--Sent L.B.A. & Schedule of Charges

11-05-2007--Recieved reply ,still investigating.

17-05-2007--Sent Amended L.B.A. for Contractual Interest this time.

14-06-2007--Received standard Bog Off letter.

13-06-2007--Took N1 to Local Courts.

26-06-2007--Copy of N1 from Court, issued 21-06-2007. to Halifax, Deemed Served 25-06-2007

Have till 09-07-2007 to file Defence.

05-07-2007--Note that Acknowledgment of Service been Filed on 29-06-2007.

Have 28 days from date of Service to File Defence.

07-07-2007--Offer from Halifax.

09-07-2007--Rejection letter sent to Halifax. Next day delivery.

10-07-2007--Money put in Account:mad:

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hi could someone please help. Im really confused . If anyone has a spare minute would you please check this over for me and see if ive done it SCHEDULE OF CLAIM FOR CHARGESTOTAL INTEREST: £178.89FROM:24 December 2004TOTAL INC. INTEREST: £814.11TO:11 May 2007DAILY RATE (FOR CLAIM FORM): £0.43TOTALS: £607.00£169.75£776.75£28.21£9.14£37.36DATE OF CHARGEPENALTY AMOUNTCOMPOUND INTERESTCOMBINED CHARGE & INTERESTDATE OF INTERESTINTEREST PAID ON PENALTIESCOMPOUND INTEREST ON INTERESTCOMBINED INTEREST & C. INTEREST124/12/2004£20.00£15.91£35.9100/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00222/09/2005£32.00£15.83£47.8300/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00322/11/2005£30.00£13.03£43.0300/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00422/11/2005£35.00£15.20£50.2000/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00522/11/2005£35.00£15.20£50.2000/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00622/12/2005£20.00£8.11£28.1100/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00722/12/2005£30.00£12.17£42.1700/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00822/12/2005£35.00£14.20£49.2000/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.00922/01/2006£35.00£13.18£48.1800/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.001022/02/2006£35.00£12.18£47.1800/01/1900£0.00£0.00£0.001123/09/2006£20.00£3.35£23.3522/02/2005£0.20£0.14£0.341223/09/2006£30.00£5.03£35.0324/03/2005£0.16£0.11£0.271322/10/2006£35.00£5.08£40.0824/03/2005£0.21£0.15£0.361422/12/2006£20.00£1.98£21.9822/05/2005£0.00£0.00£0.00

 

Overflow,

 

It's incredible that when you take the above figures and replace them with their binary compliment, change the font to wingdings and font size 8, the figures appear to resemble the stolen Madonna with the big mahoogees.

 

What the frick? 10 out of 10 for the best post tonight. You need to forward your completed file for someone to look over, but don't copy and paste.

 

Tide

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Oh boy you must have some imagination if you could see the fallen Madonna with the big mahoogees. lol;)

seriously though im glad it gave you a laugh , :lol: not often i score 10 0ut of 10.

Thanks for tryin to read it anyhooo. Hope its not given you a bad head and yes, i will get it checked over before i send it .

Thanks again.

regards:smile:

30-12-2006--Requested statements from Local Halifax.

02-02-2007--Statements Recieved.

18-04-2007--Prelim sent.

20-04-2007--Reply , Thanks , give us 8wks letter.

02-0502007--Sent L.B.A. & Schedule of Charges

11-05-2007--Recieved reply ,still investigating.

17-05-2007--Sent Amended L.B.A. for Contractual Interest this time.

14-06-2007--Received standard Bog Off letter.

13-06-2007--Took N1 to Local Courts.

26-06-2007--Copy of N1 from Court, issued 21-06-2007. to Halifax, Deemed Served 25-06-2007

Have till 09-07-2007 to file Defence.

05-07-2007--Note that Acknowledgment of Service been Filed on 29-06-2007.

Have 28 days from date of Service to File Defence.

07-07-2007--Offer from Halifax.

09-07-2007--Rejection letter sent to Halifax. Next day delivery.

10-07-2007--Money put in Account:mad:

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Hi Quietzap,

I’ve read your post and I think that I have a better understanding of the problem now. You appear to be getting mixed up between nominal interest rates and effective interest rates.

What concerns us is effective rates – ie the annual interest rate that would be applicable if you borrowed/saved your money for a whole year regardless of what the compounding period is (assuming that it is less than or equal to one year).

Just to give you a little bit of background, when you see any advert or terms and conditions for financial services products the rate shown in the largest and boldest typeface will be the effective annual interest rate – that is a legal requirement. It will be called different things with different products. For example, loans or mortgages will quote an APR, bank accounts will quote an EAR for overdraft interest and savings products will quote an AER. However, they are all effectively (no pun intended) the same thing as they represent the effective annual rate of interest for that product.

I’ll go on to address some of the specific points in your post:-

As you are adjusting the annual rate you give so that the new monthly rate you give produces the same result I cannopt see the point of your arguement.

I was not “adjusting” the annual rate. This is an example of you getting mixed up between nominal interest rates and effective interest rates. In each example I gave, the annual interest rate was 29.84% because in each case, at the end of a year, the £100 would have grown to £129.84.

As an example, suppose a bank was to advertise two different loans; one had weekly repayments and the interest was 0.5034% per week and the other had monthly repayments and the interest was 2.2% per month. In both of these cases the bank would advertise the loan with the same APR ie 29.84%APR.

It may be useful to Lloyds customers to know that they can go about the process in the manner you give, but it is still simpler and less confusing to use just one annual rate, and compound as per the Bank's practice, which they will advise if you ask.

Again, I am using just one annual rate and the bank does apply interest to the account monthly, which is why they quote a monthly figure of 2.2%, otherwise they would quote a period for a different timescale eg weekly, daily, quarterly. The reason that they also give a figure of 29.8%EAR is that it is a legal obligation to do so.

However, when you talk about “simpler and less confusing”, I have read posts (sorry – can’t remember where they were now) where contributors were saying something along the lines of:-

“I calculated the interest daily and got a total of £3000 or when I calculated it monthly I got £400”

(These aren’t the exact figures from the post but they are of the correct order of magnitude)

which also goes along with your earlier quote of :-

Compounded Contractual Interest: COMPOUND INTEREST CALCULATOR provides a calculator which will compound interest annually, bi-annually, monthly, weekly, daily or continuosly.

 

All of course produce different results.

I do find it quite worrying that people are embarking on this process of claiming compound interest and have trouble understanding what they’re doing.

Also the calculator I pointed to will take an annual rate and give appropiate rates for whichever compounding period is appropiate.

With regard to this calculator you need to input the annual nominal interest rate and it will calculate the effective rate for you. I must admit that I fail to see how this is any easier.

In order to use this calculator properly you must NOT enter the EAR or APR (in this case 29.84%) as the rate but you need to calculate and then enter the appropriate annual nominal rate (in this case 12 x 2.2 = 26.4% and set it to “Compounded Monthly”).

You then need to enter the time period as a proportion of a year (eg if you are calculating 17 months you need to enter 1.416666666…. years as the time period.)

All in all, this is not the most useful calculator for the purposes of calculating compound interest.

The interest could be paid daily, hourly whatever, it is only where it is applied to the Principal on which the interest rate is applied that it affects further interest payments.

While this is, of course, true I am a bit confused why you mention it at this point within your post and the relevance it has to what you have written before or after this point. With the exception of savings or investment accounts where the interest is paid directly into another account (eg a current account) you will find that the point in time when the interest is paid is also the point in time when it is applied to the principal amount.

I can think of two possibilities why you might raise this point.

Firstly, you may be suggesting calculating interest daily is a waste of time. Well, in the case of Lloyds you may well have a point as they do seem to always apply the charges on or about the same day of the month on each occasion so that you can work in just whole months when you come to calculate interest. However, this may not be the same for all banks and it may be that some people will need to calculate the interest on a daily basis. The point that I am trying to emphasise is that if they do this then they should ensure that they use the correct interest rate and that whichever compounding period they use they still get the same %EAR.

Secondly, you may possibly be referring to a comment I made previously on one of your posts where you stated:-

If the compounding goes on annually then each of the twelve interest payments will be exactly the same, if compounding is monthly each will be larger than the previous one.

To be honest, I still remain confused about why you are saying this. If compounding is annual then you will receive/have to pay one interest payment per year not 12. Where you may be getting confused is that some mortgages do charge interest annually but you are paying them 12 equal monthly instalments. In this case the bank has already charged you one annual interest payment but, instead of asking you to pay it off in one go at the end of the year, is making you pay it off in 12 instalments. Incidentally, this is why, for these types of mortgages, you are wasting your time if you make overpayments during the year as they won’t be taken into account until the next annual interest payment is calculated. So, your 12 interest payments are not 12 interest payments but actually one interest payment split into 12 instalments.

It is quite true that the same interest rate - whatever it may be - will give different results for compounding at different intervals.

You can only make out otherwise by changing the rate you apply, which is what you have done.

Once again, this is due to your confusion over nominal interest rates and effective interest rates. Any annual interest rate figures you see in adverts or in terms and conditions with regard to financial services products will always be the effective annual interest not the nominal annual interest.

Let me make another example, suppose I were to say to you that if you give me £100 for a year then I will pay you 12% interest on it and I will pay interest monthly so that if you want your money back at any time before the end of the year then I will give it you back with the interest that you have earned up until that time.

So, at the end of the year you want £112 back from me if you leave all the money with me for the whole year.

How much interest should I pay you each month?

Perhaps you might say 12% / 12 months = 1% per month.

Well if I were to do that then over the course of a year I would end up paying you £112.68. The interest rate I should actually pay you is 0.9489% per month. If I did this then at the end of the year I would pay you back exactly £112 (well – give or take some rounding errors).

Or, I might say to you lend me £100 for another year and I will pay you 12% per year again so that at the end of the year you’ll have £112 but this time I’ll pay you interest every week.

Again, the question, how much interest should I pay you each week?

I’m sure that everybody is catching on now that the answer is NOT going to be:-

12% / 52 weeks = 0.2308% per week.

If I were to do that over a whole year then you would end up with £112.73. Actually, I should pay you interest of 0.2182% per week for you to end up with exactly £112.

At the beginning of your post you mentioned that I was “adjusting” the annual rate. I believe that what you are probably doing is multiplying the weekly rate by 52 and the monthly rate by 12 and finding that you get different figures.

So, in the above example 0.9489% x 12 months = 11.3868%

0.2182% x 52 weeks = 11.3464%

However, in both cases, if you leave your money there for a year you end up with exactly £112, that is 12% annual interest.

If you have access to Miocrosoft Excel then there are two functions that will do all the calculations for you:-

Nominal() will take the effective interest rate (eg APR, EAR, AER) and allow you to calculate the interest rate for whatever number of periods you want. This is how you calculate that 12% annual interest compounded monthly is 0.9489% per month or 0.2182% per week.

Effect() works the other way round and if you know, for example, that you are paying x% per month it will work out what the APR is.

PS Interest Rates are usually quoted pa - per annum - and there seems no point in changing this common, day to day ordinary practice in order to complicate matters, particularly when spreadsheets and the online calculator I pointed to will take annual rates, compounded as may be required.

With regard to the above comment:-

1) As mentioned previously, when you see any annual interest rates quoted (eg APR EAR AER) then they are effective interest rates NOT nominal interest rates. The reason for doing this is so that you can compare rates without having to worry about what the compounding period is.

2) I don’t quite understand why you think that I am “changing” this

3) The online calculator you refer to will NOT work with the annual interest rates that you will find in adverts or terms and conditions of financial services products.

I hope that I’ve helped to clear up some confusion.

Regards

nicklea

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oh heck, I didnt realise it would look like that . Sorry i really thought it would look just the way i copied it all neat and in rows.

Dont blame anybody for not wantin to look now . OMG it looks so confusing . Ive used mindsia's sheet and i thought thats how it would show up.

Dont think anyone would be able to make head nor tails of this now :???: Oh well never mind ill trust to luck that its right and get a copy sent off tomorrow to the shabby for amended claim.

Thanks anyway.

regards:)

 

If you have a specific concern on mindzais spready then why not post on his thread here ...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/51736-excel-contractual-interest-spreadsheet.html

 

hope this helps? :)

links to my current claims ...

My claim - Yorkshire Bank Visa

chezt V RBS Mastercard

Chezt v RBS Joint Account

chezt v Abbey Credit Card

 

Settled ...

chezt V Duet Card/Creation Finance

chezt v's Studio Cards

chezt v's Littlewoods Catalogue

 

Next ...

Abbey Joint a/c & Single a/c

Barclaycard (Mine & Hubby's)

Anyone else I can think of ...! :rolleyes:

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This whole Monthly, annual, daily business is a complete minefield and made all the more difficult by the fact that the Banks themselves actually calculate interest on a daily basis. This of course would be impossible for us to calculate, as we are not ourselves privy to the balances at the end of each day, or indeed even at which point in the day the Banks use !

The way I understand it is that as each month has either 30 or 31 or even 28 days, it is impossible to give an accurate monthly % by simply splitting an APR by 12.

This means that an APR is not truly refelctive of the actual true manner that the interest is calculated.

I think that as long as we can be see to have made the best efforts we can as a layperson with access to the only information we have been provided, we cannot be blamedif our figures are a little out.

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Hello photoman!

...an APR is not truly refelctive of the actual true manner that the interest is calculated.

I think that as long as we can be see to have made the best efforts we can as a layperson with access to the only information we have been provided, we cannot be blamedif our figures are a little out.

I TOTALLY agree!!!

It is for the Banks to prove our figures are wrong.

 

A very easy thing for them to do,

...IF they disclosed their commercially sensitive processing costs!!!

 

And just to add fuel to the fire...

 

If a Bank advertises it's Unauthorised O/D % Rate @ say, 24.9%APR

It's TRUE %APR may be as much as 24.9499%APR without the Bank having breached any laws with regards wrongly Advertising etc etc.

 

Anyone want to bet that they DON'T round their %APR down??!!...:mad:

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Hi,

Hope you don't mind me posting here - I have a couple of threads on the go but have yet to start one onthis subject. I thought i would add further confusion to the CCI debate and garner the thoughts of more experienced minds.I am preparing a Cap 1 claim for my daughter. Common enough problem She got classic card at age 18 and behaved herself for about 3 years (not withstandng a few late payments but caught up etc etc.) in 2004 she got into difficulties, lost her income and then lost the plot! head in the sand and the card was eventually defaulted for £414 in 2004. she's kept them at bay by ducking & diving and random minimal payments to the DCA. Now the point is as whats the standing with regard to CCI on payments that have been charged but not yet paid? i.e up to the point of stopping payments she had paid out £92 in charges (sometimes paying card off in full). However of the £414 outstanding £332 is due to charges and £32 is cap 1 interest on those charges so obviously £240 were added after she stopped paying. I have no compuction at all about charging a reciprocal rate for the £92 (and associated monthly interest charged) as she has without doubt been deprived of that money until such time as it is paid back, HOWEVER what about the £240 that is sitting on the outstanding balance but hasn't been paid? its virtual money really as no-one has had thebenefit of it(added to this the fact that obviously the account has been interest free since default added in Sept 04) Do you see where I am going with this? i had wondered about only claiming CCI on the earlier charges which would reduce the total by around £400 but would it create too many loopholes and make the argument too complicated. I don't particularly want them to come bacl with the argument that as so many of the charges have gone unpaid they will not consider CCI at all. My other thought is go in for the full amount with a clear/fair figure in mind for settlement. Anybody got any thoughts?(will start thread later tonight when Grandson in bed)

Ellie:confused:

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the claiming of any interest including the Sec 69 8% in regards the charges is due to the fact that they have removed money that they were not entitled to and we are trying to claim it back at a higher rate as it was/is stated in contracrural terms what we will be charged for our default in the contract and as suchwe are asking for the recipical treatment in return the fact that money has not passed hands is irrelevant they would still have applied the default interest to the account the same

 

also on the oldest charges if you had the money you should have then you would have had the money to pay the later charges and so on

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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I have just had my n1 forms sent back from the courts within 3 days of sending them. I sent them with a list of charges. I only used simple contractual. But they have sent them back saying if i am claiming contractual interest on the amount owed to me, then i have to supply an agreement that proves this. Does this mean i have to get the actual agreement from the bank or will the terms conditions be enough. Then how do i get the terms and conditions from when i opened the account as they are different now. I was wondering if i could just send the statements, but these show monthly interest rates. So this is another question, how do you calculate it into apr? I have looked at formula on mindzai's spreadsheet and when you put it into another spreadsheet it does not work. Or its me being thick!

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I have just had my n1 forms sent back from the courts within 3 days of sending them. I sent them with a list of charges. I only used simple contractual. But they have sent them back saying if i am claiming contractual interest on the amount owed to me, then i have to supply an agreement that proves this. Does this mean i have to get the actual agreement from the bank or will the terms conditions be enough. Then how do i get the terms and conditions from when i opened the account as they are different now. I was wondering if i could just send the statements, but these show monthly interest rates. So this is another question, how do you calculate it into apr? I have looked at formula on mindzai's spreadsheet and when you put it into another spreadsheet it does not work. Or its me being thick!

It would helpful if you could post details of your POC but it sounds like you havent said why you think contractual interest is justified - have a look at my POC here which may help

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/91232-stornoway-citicards-incl-contractual.html#post833968

All comments are my personal views - if in doubt then seek professional advice. If you think i've helped then please tip my scales.

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Hi Everyone, i could do with some help for my court case on wednesday, I am claiming CI and for this reason Lloyds are defending the case. When I started my claim back in January I was ok with the arguments for claiming CI, i understood there was a risk involved how ever the arguments for Ci have gone way over my head, basicaly i have now lost the plot and need to find it again so could someone please help by explaining in simple English what has been the changer to the original arguments if any, is it now seem to be more riskyer, i would be glad of your help as i do need to be fully up on it when I try to defend it in court next week,

Thanks Guys

:x if i have been off any help to you please click my scales

 

cases won

28th July Single Claim for bank charges against LTSB, £6,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement

 

18th July Joint Claime against LTSB £7,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement.

 

 

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It would helpful if you could post details of your POC but it sounds like you havent said why you think contractual interest is justified - have a look at my POC here which may help

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/91232-stornoway-citicards-incl-contractual.html#post833968

 

Here is the poc i submitted to the court:

 

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

 

1. The Claimant has an account **** **** **** **** with the Defendant which was opened over 6 years ago.

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ and any interest charged thereon;

 

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) The claimant claims interest at the contractual rate (27.5%) from the date of issue of each transaction to 09/05/07 which is £ as set out in the attached list of charges.and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £.

 

6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982).

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

I just realised there is no mention of mutuality and that stuff. Thought I had put that all in! oops

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Hi Everyone, i have spent a great deal of time reading a lot of these posts so i think I am know ok with the CI arguments.

Pen

:x if i have been off any help to you please click my scales

 

cases won

28th July Single Claim for bank charges against LTSB, £6,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement

 

18th July Joint Claime against LTSB £7,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement.

 

 

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ultimately, i think the answer to this thread is :

 

1) most people do not understand the concept properly.

 

2) the banks will never pay unless you take them to court over this.

 

3) your argument has to be airtight otherwise you're screwed and since most people are as no. 1 this is very hard.

 

I gave up re C.I. a long time ago as there is too much conflicting advice about on this forum and i for one have had an uphill battle even getting my charges refunded (no payment as yet in 5 months). I'd be happy with charges plus stat 8% as would most of the people here.

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Hi everyone,

 

I am in the middle of a court claim that includes contractual interest. N1 form was filed ok and acknowledged, but defence was late.

 

A few days after deadline, I filled out the form asking judgement (the form on the Notice of Issue). I filled out the form with the claim amount and then I used the contractual interest rate being claimed to work out the interest accrued from date of claim to the date of asking for judgement.

 

It was sent back to me saying I cannot ask for more than 8% statutory interest.

 

Has anyone filled out a judgement form on a contractual interest claim and had it filed successfully? The girl I was speaking to about it didn't seem to know what she was talking about, and eventually came back saying I would have to redo the claim completely as I was wrong claiming that rate! :rolleyes:

 

Now as far as I know (and I have been researching this forum for months now) I am entitled, at least, to try and claim for contractual interest. My claim also had the 8% statutory interest in the alternative.

 

Anyway, while in the time I was arguing the case, they received the defence so my judgement was not taken so it's not so important now - but I don't want anyone to go through the same thing.

 

It would be helpful if anyone could clarify what you need to put on the judgement form? Do you have to only claim 8% since the Issue date or was I correct to use the contractual rate?

 

Apologies for the vagueness about the bank I am claiming against, but I don't want to tip them off! ;)

 

Thanks,

Nikki.:)

Halifax Card: Claim served 30th Mar - they met 2nd AQ deadline - waiting for Directions/Court Date

Monument Card: Claim served 30th Mar - Directions taken - 14 + 14 day deadline 18th June - settlement signed & waiting for cheque

CitiCards: Claim served 6th April - Defendant's docs (only) to be received by 25th June - case back to Judge 2nd July

A+L (SETTLED IN FULL): Prelim sent 16th April - Claim settled 4th June (on the defence deadline)

Debenhams Store Card (SETTLED IN FULL): Prelim sent 17th Feb - Claim settled on 14th Mar (3 days before LBA deadline)

MINT Card (SETTLED IN FULL): Prelim sent 8th Feb - claim settled 14th Apr (1 day after defence deadline)

HSBC (SETTLED FOR 8% INTEREST): Prelim sent 15th Jan - claim settled 18th May (after AQ deadline)

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Nikki the 'girl' was talking rubbish. They are not legaly trained & shouldn't be telling you what you can or cannot claim for, only the court can do that. They are only court staff meant to process applications.

 

I suggest that you phone the court again & ask to speak to the court manager explain what you have told & you have taken advice which indicates the advice their staff member was wrong & you will be submitting you claim again Mention that because of their mistaken intervetion your claim has been delayed which might cause you prejudice.

 

Don't be afraid to complian they have no right to return your claim on the pretext they understand the law, they don't

 

Alternativley use another court

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all. I went to court last week over my claime for chargers plus CI, however it was a directions hearing not a full hearing. the day before the hearing SCM paid in full most of the chargers plus court costs plus 8%. at the hearing i turned down the offer due to not all the chargers were paid there was a shortfall of about £300 also they did not pay the CI only 8% a new hearing has been made for July. LTSB have refused to take the money out of my account, the barrister said it would be classed as part payment. so basicaliy i have won all my chargers plus 8% so the hearing in July is for the CI and i am going to have to produce a very vailid argument as to why i am entitled to be awarded it and i beleive there is very few curcumstances upon why a court would award it yet i am unsure what these are.

what i do know is i was unable to meet my loan payments each month because of these chargers so I was forced to consolidate hence ending up with a much bigger loan which has cost me a hell of a lot more.

Can any one tell me in what curcumstances the courts would look favorabley on awarding CI.

Pen

:x if i have been off any help to you please click my scales

 

cases won

28th July Single Claim for bank charges against LTSB, £6,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement

 

18th July Joint Claime against LTSB £7,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement.

 

 

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Hi all. I went to court last week over my claime for chargers plus CI, however it was a directions hearing not a full hearing. the day before the hearing SCM paid in full most of the chargers plus court costs plus 8%. at the hearing i turned down the offer due to not all the chargers were paid there was a shortfall of about £300 also they did not pay the CI only 8% a new hearing has been made for July. LTSB have refused to take the money out of my account, the barrister said it would be classed as part payment. so basicaliy i have won all my chargers plus 8% so the hearing in July is for the CI and i am going to have to produce a very vailid argument as to why i am entitled to be awarded it and i beleive there is very few curcumstances upon why a court would award it yet i am unsure what these are.

what i do know is i was unable to meet my loan payments each month because of these chargers so I was forced to consolidate hence ending up with a much bigger loan which has cost me a hell of a lot more.

Can any one tell me in what curcumstances the courts would look favorabley on awarding CI.

Pen

 

You need to reject it still in writing see here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejecting-offers.html

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Hi Tanz,

Yes I have done that the day after they hearing however thanks as i don't think i sent a copy to the court as i was in such a rush with going away so i will print one off now and send it,

Pen

:x if i have been off any help to you please click my scales

 

cases won

28th July Single Claim for bank charges against LTSB, £6,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement

 

18th July Joint Claime against LTSB £7,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement.

 

 

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PEN the money they refunded does it state it is charges and 8% or is it usual abbey GOGW

 

if it abbey GOGW then say look remove it or i wll look at it as payment towards the accuring interest payment leaving charges outstanding but removing the CI part of your claim

 

and you will take it as no response or the funds remaining in your account as their acceptence of these terms

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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