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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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OK its time... anyone with CCA issues report a complaint to the Office Of Fair Trading


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Its common knowledge that Citi are misleading people in the event that they are unable to find an executed agreement after receiving a s78(1) Consumer Credit Act request.

 

Sending customers recent Terms & Conditions or stating that the varied Terms & Conditions sent with statements and new cards fulfil their duty is incorrect.

 

The regulations are specific, in all instances a request for the executed agreement should be accompanied by the varied Terms & Conditions. For purposes of an s78(1) CCA request, if Terms & Conditions are reference in the executed agreement a copy of those original Terms & Conditions should also be included.

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

7 Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either--

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in

 

Therefore in just providing a copy of the Varied Terms & Conditions the s78(1) CCA request remains unfulfilled and goes into default after a period of 12+2 days of receipt by Citi.

 

The addition of interest, penalty charges and the further processing of data to the credit reference agencies whilst a request for the executed agreement (i.e. signed agreement) is in default is an action that Citi have no legal entitlement to do, is certainly unlawful, and may potentially be illegal if they attempt to justify this - in my case they did this after my complaint which equates to deception.

 

COMPLAIN TO:

 

Enquiries Unit

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

London, EC4Y 8JX.

Edited by Enron

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It looks as if Citi will take notice if you are having problems and your local trading standards department enquires as to the supply of the copy of the executed agreement.

 

That however does not address the fact that as listed in legislation the creditor is duty bound to supply the debtor with a copy of the executed agreement - a copy being supplied via a third party does not fulfil the s78 request, epsecially 9 months subsequent to the original request.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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I think you will find Enron that The London office will only deal with those directly from the home area.

For those outside London they will need to contact their local TS and ask for them to liase a complaint using the London office by home authority.

I had this spelled out to me in the Capquest and Active KAP sagas.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Dont know if my local one contacted them directly, the response came through them.

 

For details of your local trading standards search here:

 

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Sending customers recent Terms & Conditions or stating that the varied Terms & Conditions sent with statements and new cards fulfil their duty is incorrect.

 

The regulations are specific, in all instances a request for the executed agreement should be accompanied by the varied Terms & Conditions. For purposes of an s78(1) CCA request, if Terms & Conditions are reference in the executed agreement a copy of those original Terms & Conditions should also be included.

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

7 Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either--

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in

 

Therefore in just providing a copy of the Varied Terms & Conditions the s78(1) CCA request remains unfulfilled and goes into default after a period of 12+2 days of receipt by Citi.

 

Yes, but most are arguing that to comply with section 77-79 requests they simply have to provide you with T&C's as they were at the time you signed and T&Cs as they are now for comparision.

 

Aparently the definition of a "true copy" doesn't have to include our signatures (which sounds like rubbish to me).

 

See this letter from Barclaycard Legal Department - they are trying the same rubbish with me:-

 

http://www.campbellphotographic.co.uk/images/barclaycard0002.jpg

 

(my whole thread here:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162487-hello-newbie-need-lots-2.html)

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Yes, but most are arguing that to comply with section 77-79 requests they simply have to provide you with T&C's as they were at the time you signed and T&Cs as they are now for comparision.
We are getting the same treatment in court. Judge took the view that: No need for a default notice, no need for the CCA no need for anything..the claimants are saying " The account was terminated so no worries about consumer credit act, quoting Rankines and all that jazz"

 

This is a credit card we're talking about.

Donate to keep this site open

 

Any help or advice is offered as just that, help and advice without any liability. If in doubt consult a legal expert or CAB.

 

Make Cash Flow Forecast

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I have clarification from the OFT which outlines what should be included in response to a CCA request.

 

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/1-8.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image2.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image3.jpg

 

What Citi have attempted to do here is provide a copy of Terms & Conditions from 2007, stating that they are the executed agreement from 1996.

 

Next stop the ICO with relation to this.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I have clarification from the OFT which outlines what should be included in response to a CCA request.

 

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/1-8.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image2.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image3.jpg

 

What Citi have attempted to do here is provide a copy of Terms & Conditions from 2007, stating that they are the executed agreement from 1996.

 

Next stop the ICO with relation to this.

 

 

I'm a newbie just about to start down the long path of CCA requesting but that document you've got there seems a fantastic bit of evidence to support peoples cases. Well done!

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Yes they are pretty invaluable, as they indicate what fulfills a request.

 

Let me know what you get in return to your s78(1) Consumer Credit Act request - it is likely that it will be the same invalid letter that everyone else has received.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Hello Enron!

 

Paul Wilton also posted a handy letter from the Chief Exec of the OFT which I think could do with being formatted and verified and then made into a sticky somewhere.

 

To save me typing and having to think too hard, below is some bumf I've just written on another Thread to point SB100 to the letter:

 

======== START OF CUT AND PASTE! =======

 

I'd also have a read of the following:

 

Re: Letters from DTI /Oft Regarding CCA1974 Issues - Post #49

 

...which is a letter from the Chief Executive of the OFT to the MP Sion Simon, regarding CCA Requests. This confirms the OFT think that a CCA Request response must include the Original Terms and the Current Terms (if varied). The OFT also feels that it would be likely that a Court would want to see the Original Agreement...

 

...where the veracity of the Agreement produced could then be tested before the Court where the onus of proof is on the Creditor.

 

John Fingleton

Chief executive

Office of Fair Trading

21/11/2008

 

In effect, that's what I and many others on CAG have been saying for ages: only the Original Agreement will do in Court. Before Court, it's entirely correct that in response to a s77-79 CCA Request, the Consumer should be given a true copy of the real Agreement, together with both the Original Terms and the Current Terms (if varied).

 

======== END OF CUT AND PASTE! =======

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited by banker_rhymes_with
Should've checked it before Pasting!
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Can we report straight to the OFT?

 

I have loads more letters to do tonight :D

 

Citi have screwed me over for 6 years with charges and it's a satisfied default due to expire this year :rolleyes:

 

Yes make a complaint, the more complaints there are the more inclined the OFT are to investigate.

 

Personally if you have a valid arguement that what Citi are doing is wrong i'd be inclined to also get in touch with your MP.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Yes make a complaint, the more complaints there are the more inclined the OFT are to investigate.

 

Personally if you have a valid arguement that what Citi are doing is wrong i'd be inclined to also get in touch with your MP.

 

 

Citi messed me up in a big way in 2006 - they would not send me SAR as they wanted proof of my old address.. loads of hassle.. in the end I did not get my SAR off them.

 

Now, it is too late to get 6 years worth of charges isn't it? The account was defaulted in 2003 :-x:-x:-x

 

So they have had a Default on my account, plus all the charges (not concerned about the money, I settled the account by paying half)

 

What do I do?

 

Is it possible to get all the statements still or not, do I just demand that the Default is removed?

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If they were obstructive in fulfilling your SAR, I would consider getting trading standards involved asking for their assistance in getting Citi to comply with your request.

 

Statute Barred, might be difficult to proceed for a claim against charges unless you have a very good reason - possibly might able to use the reason that the creditor was obstructive in obtaining not supply the documents you requested, but would do a bit of work into this, maybe put a post up in the general section, or search out threads to do with statute barred claims.

 

Default, if the default was made in 2003 it should drop off your credit file this year - but it doesnt harm add to any potential claim you make.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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If they were obstructive in fulfilling your Subject Access Request, I would consider getting trading standards involved asking for their assistance in getting Citi to comply with your request.

 

Statute Barred, might be difficult to proceed for a claim against charges unless you have a very good reason - possibly might able to use the reason that the creditor was obstructive in obtaining not supply the documents you requested, but would do a bit of work into this, maybe put a post up in the general section, or search out threads to do with statute barred claims.

 

Default, if the default was made in 2003 it should drop off your credit file this year - but it doesnt harm add to any potential claim you make.

 

 

Many thanks.

 

I have been onto the Information Commissioners website, and note that you must have hard copies of evidence from the banks etc to back up complaints, I should have all of this by next month and can start then.

 

I have written a letter to Citi just now to complain, contacted the CRAs regarding them too.

 

I am not concerned about the charges - stuff them. I do want the Default removed and it isn't due to come off until August. Which is a long time really :| If it had been in 3 months, I would have forgotten about it.. but no, I don't see why I should. Citi have been worse than any of them. Their charges were worse than Capital Ones!

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  • 1 month later...

Still 40 days, out of interest did you ask for anything like a copy of the executed agreement in your SAR?

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Still 40 days, out of interest did you ask for anything like a copy of the executed agreement in your SAR?

 

No I didn't, just statements etc..

 

I can't request one anyways because it is a terminated and settled account.

 

My only dispute is it comprises of massive charges taking me about £400 over the credit limit with charges only.

 

I want the default removed and am going to claim for the charges back..

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Yes, for both my Barclayoan and my credit card.

 

Nothing back except 6 years statements and a note saying "please find enclosed your statements as requested (?)".

 

All statements pre May 2004 were sent as a "Gesture of Good Will" because they say they don't have to send anything that is now on microfilm.

 

see posts here:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/169837-ppi-claim-interest-barclaycard-2.html#post1915528

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They're not using the old Micropiche arguement are they, think that this was tackled long ago - your probably best looking up this in Barclays forum and not here.

 

From memory think Gizmo111 did something regarding this, albeit thats from memory and a couple of years ago.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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  • 1 month later...

Just to add that I received the same crap from Citi in the post this morning together with 11 pages of terms and conditions that bear no resemblance to what I signed up to.

 

 

ccaresponseCITIcropped.jpg

 

 

Also, when I originally signed up for this card in 2000 (can even tell you the day as I was jet lagged and cornered in a service station coming out of the toilets!!) it was not even for Citi it was for a People card. So I was expecting to receive terms and conditions relating to that company...I assume they aren't weren't the same.

 

Am going to write back challenging this and putting the account in dispute.

Does anyone have any specific comments that you believe I should add and/or a template letter for OFT...or is it too early to complain??

 

My link is here for any comments...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/191849-citi-card-cca-received.html

 

 

Many thanks...;)

Edited by WelshMam2009

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

MBNA Cards

 

CitiCard

M&S and More

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  • 10 months later...

I would like to know how we go about this as I have just recieved two reponces from Citi or Piti cards as I call them for two credit agreements that I requested back in May last year.

 

I funny thing is Card #1 was issued by Associates and they have sent me two made up credit agreements with no signitures or copy of the original paperwork I signed.

 

Card #2 was issued by Citi cards and they have aslo sent me two made up agreements one from Associates and also one from Citi Cards :lol:

 

Do these people not look at what they are doing ? this is a clear case of manipulation and false information.. now if they are playing games then this needs to be reported.

 

I have attached the covering letters for someone to review please.

Citi Areement Request reply 433.zip

Citi Agreement Request Reply 581.zip

Please except my sincere thanks for any help... Knowledge can be dangerous but experience is priceless!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am supprise that there has benn no further posting to this or has it moved to another Thread?

 

if so can someone please update me

Please except my sincere thanks for any help... Knowledge can be dangerous but experience is priceless!

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  • 2 weeks later...
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