Northern Rock- CCJ requested

[Stornoway]

I really wish I had never had anything to do with Northern Rock. Ever.

 

Back in 2004 I took a Together mortgage and personal loan. The mortgage was refinanced in Sep 07 but the personal loan is still with NR with around £22k outstanding.

 

Back in Jan / Feb 06, I hit some problems and missed 2 and a 1/2 months of mortgage and loan payments. I brought the account up to date in March but not before they decided to take me to court. After much pleading they eventually agreed to stop the action.

 

I then moved abroad in Jan 08 (EC country) and all was well until I somehow managed to miss payments on the loan account in August and September this year (S/O problems). The Oct and Nov payments went OK and I made double payments in each of these months to catch up.

 

However on 3rd Dec, my tenant in Scotland (Ive kept my Scottish house) received a writ through the door (not in an envelope) as NR have decided to take me to court.

 

I think (hope) that I have a good defence to the action in that ;

1) I've never received a default notice as NR have continued to write to me at my scottish address despite me writing to them in january to advise of the new details. (I'm assuming that they cant rely on any default notice sent in relation to the arrears in 2006 for the latest action).

2) I'm a resident of another EC country. I can prove this as I am an overseas tax resident and have notified the inland revenue accordingly.

 

NR are a complete nightmare - I've been hugely embarrassed by the court docs going to my tenant and all because of 2 months arrears which were paid off before the action even started. I also phoned them on the day the court docs were received by my tenant to say that I understood some form of document had been sent and could they tell me whether action was being taken - they replied that no court action was underway and this has left me with less time to respond to the action as the docs had to be posted to me and were delayed in the christmas post.

 

I've now acknowledged the action to the court and stated that I intend to file a defence. Can anyone help me with the wording for this ?

Edited December 17, 2008 by Stornoway

[rory32]

Back in 2004 I took a Together mortgage and personal loan.

The loan part of this is covered by the Consumer Credit Act.

 

However on 3rd Dec, my tenant in Scotland (Ive kept my Scottish house) received a writ through the door (not in an envelope) as NR have decided to take me to court.

 

The initial writ is required to be served either by recorded delivery or a Sheriff's Officer. Normally two initial writs are required. One to the owner and one to any potential tenant of the property.

 

Are you currently behind in payments?

 

What does the initial writ state? Is it regarding the standard security?

[Stornoway]

No there is no standard security because the mortgage has been repaid. This is for an unsecured personal loan. I'll copy out the terms of the writ tonight.

 

Its now fully up to date and no arrears.

 

Thanks

[Stornoway]

I'm planning to send this request off tomorrow to NR's solicitors. The wording is taken from some advice Rory gave elsewhere on the site.

 

 

In the XXXX Sheriff Court

Pursuer -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation.

 

 

Please note that I live in [abroad] and have never received a Default Notice from Northern Rock. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, I request you to provide me with the information and documents detailed below.

 

I request that the information should be furnished within seven days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, it may hamper proceedings and result in me filing an unnecessary defence or counter claim.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention.

c. True copies of any default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor reportedly sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it may delay or frustrate the equitable resolution of this matter and result in unnecessary cost for both parties.

 

Yours sincerely,

[Von Greenbach]

I'm planning to send this request off tomorrow to NR's solicitors. The wording is taken from some advice Rory gave elsewhere on the site.

Hello Stornoway

 

I have an ongoing court cae with NR, are you dealing with Eversheds by any chance?

 

I sent my CPR18 of to them almost 2 weeks ago, not heard anything as yet.

 

When you send your CPR of send it by "Special Delivery" guarenteed next day b4 1.00pm. cost £4.60.

[Stornoway]

Here is the wording from the writ.

 

 

Initial writ

in causa

Northern Rock

 

 

v

 

 

Me (old address)

 

 

The Pursuer craves the court;

1. to grant decreee against the defenders for payment to the pursuier of the sum of xxxxxx with interest thereon at the rate of 8%% pa from the date of citation to follow hereon until payment.
   
2. To find the defenders liable to the pursuer in the expenses of the action
   

 

Condescendence

 

 

1. The pursuer is NR [address]. The defenders reside at [address]. The defenders have resided at said address for in excess of 3 months immediately preceding the raising of this action. The pursuer has no reason to believe that there is any agreement to prorogate another court to jurisdiction or any other proceedings in another court in respect of matters raised in this writ. The court accordingly has jurisdiction.
   
2. The pursuer entered into a CCA ref number xxx dated xxxx [2004] with the defenders in respect of an unsecured loan. A copy of the agreement will be produced.
   
3. The defenders failed to maintain payments of the instalments due in terms of the Agreement. The pursuer served a default notice on the defenders. The defenders failed to make payment of the sums due in satisfaction of the default notice. The pursuer terminated the agreement. Upon termination the defenders are liable to make payment of the balance outstanding in terms of the agreement. The balance outstanding is xxxxx which is the sum craved.
   
4. The defenders have been called upon to make payment of the sum sued for but have refused or at least delayed to do so. The action is accordingly necessary.
   

 

Pleas in Law

 

 

1. The sum sued for being due and resting owing under and in terms of the parties contract as condescended upon, decree should be granted as craved.
   

[CHRIS581]

I am having the same with NR / Eversheds.

It is in England, and I have sold the property and it is noe an unsecured loan. I had Nothing from the CPR request (at all).

 

Went to court for a case management conference, basically we were told to come up with a better repayment offer.

 

NR didn't accept it (with a I&E form) then they pulled out the DAY of the next telephone case conference call.

Heard NOTHING since. I am waiting, but nothing at all?

I believe there is an issue with this whole Together agreement...

as in it is unenforcable - and I'm looking into it

[Stornoway]

Hello Stornoway

 

I have an ongoing court cae with NR, are you dealing with Eversheds by any chance?

 

I sent my CPR18 of to them almost 2 weeks ago, not heard anything as yet.

 

When you send your CPR of send it by "Special Delivery" guarenteed next day b4 1.00pm. cost £4.60.

 

 

Thanks Von Greenbach. My case is in Scotland so slightly different rules and CPR doesnt apply (I think !).

 

In terms of the mail its a nightmare for me because I'm abroad so I cant send guaranteed next day delivery.

[Stornoway]

In terms of the process in Scotland, can anyone tell me when I need to lodge the defence by ? I sent in the notic e of intention to defend but I dont know how long I have to lodge the actual defence.

 

Thanks.

[Von Greenbach]

Sorry Stornoway, I was just trying to be helpful against these *****

[rory32]

Normally two initial writs are required. One to the owner and one to any potential tenant of the property.

 

What I should have pointed out was that this is only required (to my knowledge) if the inital writ has to do with the standard security. Clearly in this case it does not.

 

Apparently most of NR's together unsecured loans are unenforceable - so it will be interesting to see what they come back with.

 

VG the rules in Scotalnd are quite different from England in that we don't have CPR. The rules of disclosure and the productions are ruled by the type of action. In this case I woud guess that it would be the ordinary cause rules due to the sums normally involved in these together agreements.

[Stornoway]

Sorry Stornoway, I was just trying to be helpful against these *****

Your good intentions are much appreciated. Whilst I think I have a good case, this has really spoiled my christmas......Northern Rock are the pits.

[Stornoway]

What I should have pointed out was that this is only required (to my knowledge) if the inital writ has to do with the standard security. Clearly in this case it does not.

 

Apparently most of NR's together unsecured loans are unenforceable - so it will be interesting to see what they come back with.

 

VG the rules in Scotalnd are quite different from England in that we don't have CPR. The rules of disclosure and the productions are ruled by the type of action. In this case I woud guess that it would be the ordinary cause rules due to the sums normally involved in these together agreements.

Thanks Rory - it is Ordinary Cause unfortunately.

 

Any idea on where I can get more info about Together loans being unenforceable ?

 

Are you also able to advise on the timescales from now / what happens next ?

[rory32]

The pursuer served a default notice on the defenders. The defenders failed to make payment of the sums due in satisfaction of the default notice.

I notice that they have not stated the date of the default notice. If it is to do with the 2006 one was this paid before the expiry of the default notice e.g. the 14 days?

 

I sent in the notic e of intention to defend but I dont know how long I have to lodge the actual defence.

You get another 14 days to file your defence.

 

How much roughly is the sum they are claiming?

[rory32]

Are you also able to advise on the timescales from now / what happens next ?

This is written from a pursuers point of view but it gives you an idea of what happens and the timescales involved Taking a claim to sheriff court (Scotland)

[Von Greenbach]

VG the rules in Scotalnd are quite different from England in that we don't have CPR

It was only after I poted I noticed it was a Scottish case, my stupidity, trouble is, everytime I see the words NR I want to scream.

[rory32]

everytime I see the words NR I want to scream.

You're not alone

 

Stornoway if you are not presented with the documents that you have asked for (this is highly likely) then you will need to file an incidental application for these productions. Normally if this is not opposed the court will just issue a G11 form giving the pursuer a set amount of time to produce the documents. If they don't then the court will in all likelyhood dismiss the case.

[Stornoway]

How much roughly is the sum they are claiming?

 

20k

[Stornoway]

You're not alone

 

Stornoway if you are not presented with the documents that you have asked for (this is highly likely) then you will need to file an incidental application for these productions. Normally if this is not opposed the court will just issue a G11 form giving the pursuer a set amount of time to produce the documents. If they don't then the court will in all likelyhood dismiss the case.

 

Thanks for all your help Rory.

[Stornoway]

Okay, a bit of an update. I wrote to NR and their lawyers on the 19th Dec (letter was faxed to them) requesting copies of the default notice, credit agreement, letter before action etc and asked that this be supplied within 7 days. It is now 16 days later and they have not provided the documentation. The letter highlighted that I dont live in the UK, never received any default notice and the account is fully up to date.

 

I have received an email from their lawyers on the 23rd Dec stating "we advise that we have taken our clients’ instructions and they have requested that we stop the action in relation to the above account. However, we note from your letter of 14 December that you were going to lodge a Notice of Intention to Defend and on checking with the court today, they have confirmed that a Notice of Intention to Defend was lodged on 19 December. Accordingly, we are unable to close our file at present and will have no option but to enter into process at Court to bring the matter to a conclusion. We trust this information is of help."

I think (hope) that this means that I've won but I havent been able to contact NR's lawyers over the christmas period to see what happens next and my defence requires to be lodged by 7th January which is obviously now very tight. I'm therefore minded to put together a defence and lodge it before / on the deadline to protect myself.

I'd very much appreciate the views of some of the more legally minded CAGGERS (are you out there Rory ?). I'm working up a defence at the moment and will post later but would really appreciate feedback from some of the other CAG users.