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Barclaycard Microfiche Gumph


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hey everyone,

 

I've been trying to find the answer for my Bcard nightmare... they sent me the same rubbish about the microfiche and i replied them with the same letter as the first thread (juli99) and they replied back basically saying that Smith-Lloyds is 'puzzling' because it fully supports barclays!! bla bla...and i could speak to customer service and pay £3 per statement!!

is there any point in speaking to Financial ombudsman or Commission Officer???

I'm feeling lost now...don't really know what to do!!

any ideas?

thanks

v.

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Keep on at them...........they usually comply in the end

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I had the microfiche letter this morning, therefore I am replying with an estimated claim including an estimted £20 late payment charge for every month going back to 18/07/2001 (mid 2001) this has bumped up my claim to £1140.83, I'll let you know what happens, I am assuming they'll give the £12 being fair line, if this is the case should I re calc the claim to £463.85, i.e just claiming the £8 unfair charge?

Barclaycard - Data Protection Act req sent 3rd August, received copy statements and Microfiche garb on 11th Aug.

2nd letter Data Protection Act req sent 15th Aug. 7th Sept recieved "As explained previously"letter.

09th September Req for Repayment sent £628 in charges + £152.90 interest = £780.90

missed something!

19th October, recieved offer of £166, which they paid straight onto account!

 

Next on the List Lloyds TSB - have to open another Bank account first!

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Why should you do that when it is not conclusive that the 12.00 is still a fair charge ?

 

The OFT guideline is not set in concrete so if they are still unable or unwilling to provide evidence of their costs then these are still open to challenge.

Claim the whole 20.00........unless you are feeling generous !!

 

;)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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ooooo I'm not feeling generous at all!!! I am just filling out the next letter, take a look, what do you think?

 

Dear......

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated 8th August 2006 The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that;

 

 

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges, the list provided only dates back to 21st May 2004

 

You state in your letter that I can obtain the “missing” information requested from customer services at a charge of £3 per statement, if this information is available at further cost to me, then it is surely available to print out! Therefore is available for you to send as requested in the initial DPA request.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

You have a further 32 days to comply.

Barclaycard - Data Protection Act req sent 3rd August, received copy statements and Microfiche garb on 11th Aug.

2nd letter Data Protection Act req sent 15th Aug. 7th Sept recieved "As explained previously"letter.

09th September Req for Repayment sent £628 in charges + £152.90 interest = £780.90

missed something!

19th October, recieved offer of £166, which they paid straight onto account!

 

Next on the List Lloyds TSB - have to open another Bank account first!

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thanks nik. but this is what i'd sent and they replied back saying that 'your reference to the case of Smith-v-Lloyds is puzzling' because it fully supports Bcard's position! and as they explained 'copy statements held prior to may 2004 are stored on microfiche bla bla ..and that i can get the statements for £3 per statement or can complaint to Financial Ombudsman services.

i can't find any template which can follow this 2nd 'refusal' coz i'm still within 40 days.

any ideas?

thanks

v.

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Hello Victoriaujj

 

I recieved the same letter today, as I sent the template letter and got the same reponse of the 'puzzling bit', this is obviously a standard template letter for them.

 

I have filed at County Court today against Barclaycard for £100 costs and £30 Court fee, as it is now 55 days since I sent my original request. I have filed under the claim as: 'Order under section 7 and Section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act'. I can give you the details of the claim if required.

 

I have filed for £100 in terms of costs (letters that I have sent etc). If a Soliciter had done this work it would of been £200+, so I think £100 is resonable. At least it might show them that I am serious! also I believe they have broken the law, by not supplying me with the info in 40 days.

 

I was tempted to claim for £2000 in charges, then let them come to Court to defend it, they would of at least would of then had to provide the statements, but I chose not to on this occasion!

 

Best regards

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Hi im at the same stage as vik + D5T .Ive used alanfromderby's template slightly amended ,reminding them time's running outand that court action will follow

:grin:amount WON so far £15,021.27(12 claims):D

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Difficult for me though, time has ran out, just hope I am doing the right thing by filing at court. I have done it so far to Abbey National and I group for failure of DPA information, but still have not recieved information from these either.:?

 

Best regards

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Keep up the pressure..........you will win through.

 

:)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thanks, I think I am going to need it!

 

Amazing to think that Halifax and Capital One were easy to deal with, yet RBS have stated they will not refund any charges at all, Abbey have not sent my statements, and these w***kers can not even supply something which we are even entitled too.

 

I work in travel, and I know that all details have to be kept and archived for at least 3 years (surprisingly we have to archive everything in date order, and easily accessable location, as it is all paperwork, strange how certain banks can not do this, what would happen in an emergency ehh, or someone was money laundering/fraudulent behaviour, they would be able to find and supply the details then...:evil: )

 

Best regards

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Yep I see what you are saying......tho looks like Halifax are starting to slow up again (2 recent claims not yet even acknowledged after 14 days )

 

I too having to wait for Rbs.......and Barclays.

Have got Citi Cards to go too but saving them for desert ha ha

 

;)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Difficult for me though, time has ran out, just hope I am doing the right thing by filing at court. I have done it so far to Abbey National and I group for failure of Data Protection Act information, but still have not recieved information from these either.:?

 

Best regards

Hi D5Tweddle :)

 

Fingers crossed for you - I'm not that far behind...!

I say you're definitely doing the right thing!

Go for it!!! ;)

-Warms (Alexandra)-

---------------------------------------------

Whatever I post is just my opinion, no more, no less!:!:

.....................................................................

NatWest=>settled in full, no strings!:D

NatWest creditcard=>settled in full, no strings!:D

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Got Letter Back This Morning

 

I Had Sent The Thanks For What They Had Sent But Further Info Needed Letter To Northampton. However They Then Forwarded It To Carl Nuttall From Manchester Again.

This Time Was Sent The Manual Intervention Information For The Period To May 2004 And Sorry We Cannot Help You Until You Pay For The Statements.

 

What I Cannot Understand Is That They Say They Can Get The Information, All Be It By Charging Us For It, Then Surely The Information Is Available.

 

Am I Better Now Leaving This To Run Its Course, And Reporting Them For Non Compliance, Then Going Back 6 Years And Adding £20 Per Month To The Info I Have At The Moment And Writing Them A Prelim Letter For That.

 

Any Thoughts On This Or Is There Anyone Out There Who Has Another Suggestion.

 

All Ideas Welcome

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Juli99

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I'm not too sure.

 

I am tempted to add £20 every month when we had the card, from March 2001 to March 2004, that would be £720 (I think?), The debt is for £547.00, and that is what they have 'Defaulted' us for. But I will wait for the response from the Court Order that I have filed, and take it from there. They might send the statements then:rolleyes: .

 

Best regards

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hi Juli99,D5weddle and David

 

I have questions fro you:

Julie99- are you still within the 40 days? are you reporting them to the Commission Officer? and did you send anything to them after the 'puzzling' letter?

David- I understand that you are on 55 days now, did you send them anything after that 'puzzling' letter?are you estimating the bank charges when filing the court claim?

I might be thick but can't find any template for as for reply to the 'puzzling' letter!

D5weddle- which template is the one u are mentioning? can you send a link please?

thanks so much!

vik

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Hello,

 

No I have not sent them a letter after I recieved the 'Puzzling' letter. I filed at County Court yesterday, for £100 costs, as they have broken the law by not complying with the DPA request. I was tempted to file for £2000 in charges (made up amount) and let them come to Court to dispute it, they would then have to provide the statements to the Court to prove that I am right or wrong. But I would just rather recieve the statements and file at Court the correct amount.

 

In terms of the template, if you email me at D5Tweddle@aol.com, I will send you a copy of the letter templates that I have used. I don't know how to do links on this forum - sorry:confused:

 

Hope this helps.:)

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Hello,

 

I have pasted the copy of the letter that I and some other people have recieved in terms of the 'puzzling' statement made. I had made 2 requests for the statements untill I filed at County Court yesterday to get my statements. So after I got this letter, I have not responded to Barclaycard. It seeems to be a template letter that they have created, another stalling tactic. What surprises me, is that you can pay the £3 per statement over the phone and they can print them off and send them to you, yet when you send a DPA letter they are stored on Microfiche?

 

Do they honestly believe that within that £3 you pay, a little hunched over man in the dungeon's of Barclaycard in Manchester goes and retrieves your statements, with a little piece of scrawney paper in his hand with your name, account number, the month and year of the statement you want. He donns his spectacles, wipes his moustache and winds up the machine, takes a swig of Morrisons Red Label tea and starts searching... come on..!

 

Dear XXXX

 

As explained previously copy statements held prior to May 2004 are stored on microfiche. The statements are copied onto microfiche in date order and more than one customer statement may be held on an individual film of microfiche. These statements are not stored by reference to account number or customer name and are not ‘readily accessible’ within the meaning of the data protection act. These statements are therefore not retained in a relevant filing system and therefore do not fall within the class of documents to be produced pursuant to a subject access request.

Accordingly we are unable to disclose any further statement documentation to you pursuant to your request under the data protection act. As previously advised you may contact the customer services team for copy statements. There is a standard charge of £3 per copy statement.

With regard to your request that we provide a computer printout of transactions on your account to date we are unable to provide information requested. Our computer systems do not permit us to print such historic data. Neither do our computer systems allow us to search for and identify individual charges applied to an account. It is therefore not possible to provide you with a print out of such charges. I would also add that Barclaycard did not introduce default charges on its accounts until mid 2001. The print out that has been provided to you contain’s the information that we currently have recorded relating to charges on your account.

You also state that other customers have been provided with computer print outs of transactions information covering ‘this period’, which I understand to be the period prior to May 2004. As Barclaycard cannot produce print outs of transaction information prior to may 2004 from computer I do not understand what you are referring to in this regard.

Accordingly we are unable to disclose any further statement documentation to you pursuant to your request under the data protection act. As previously advised you may contact the customer services team for copy statements. There is a standard charge of £3 per copy statement.

Your reference to the case Smith –v-Lloyds Bank PLC (2005) EWHC 246 (Ch) is puzzling in this regard as that case fully supports Barclaycards position. In that case Mr Smith made a subject access request to Lloyds. Lloyds did not disclose all the documents that it held as it took the position that a number of documents held loosely in boxes were not contained in a relevant filing system and therefore were not required to be produced. Mr Justice Laddie agreed with Lloyds and dismissed the court application of Mr Smith to have the documents produced. As with a box of documents the copy statements held by Barclaycard on microfiche are not held in a relevant filling system.

I am sorry if this is not the response you wanted, but I hope that my explanation is helpful. If you would like to talk about this further please call me on the above number. I will keep your complaint open for 8 weeks so you have time to consider my response. If I have not heard from you by then I will regard your complaint as closed.

Our aim is to resolve all complaints internally although we recognise on this occasion this has not been the case. As we have not been able to agree a way forward, you may be able to ask the Financial Ombudsman to review your complaint.

Yours sincerely

Great letter, if you have not recieved this one, you will soon.

Best regards

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I Am Still Within The 40 Day Limit And I Do Not Expect That I Am Going To Get Anymore From Them.

 

Unless I Hear Any Reason Not To I Think I Am Going To Let The Time Run Out Then Report Them And Claim The £20 Per Month

 

I Have Several Others On The Go And If Barclays Wish To Be Awkward I Am Not Going To Lose Sleep Over It. Just Keep To The Time Table And Keep Going.

 

And If Anyone From Barclaycard Is Reading This Then Give Up Now You Will Not Win. It Will Cost You More Than It Will Me And I Am Not Going To Be Fobbed Off With Your Letters Of How The Statements Are On Microfiche And Are Not Readily Available.

They Are Readily Available If I Pay £3. Therefore What You Are Saying Is That For A Computer To Put £20 Fines On My Account Is Nearly 7 Times More Work Than To Access Each Statement Via A Microfiche.

 

Enough Ranting From Me

 

Juli99

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I found this today, after searching for a solution to this issue with Barclaycard, it's worth shot so I will be sending my reply based on this information.

 

3. 'Personal Data', 'Relevant Filing Systems' and the Durant case

 

The DPA 1998 defines personal data as any information that relates to an identified or identifiable person (the data subject), or which in combination with other information in the possession of, or that is likely to come into the possession of, the data controller would permit their identification.

The Durant Test

 

This definition of 'personal data' was considered by the UK Court of Appeal in the case of Durant v Financial Services Authority (2003). In Durant the Court of Appeal did not consider the issue of the "identifiability" of an individual, but concentrated on the meaning of "relate to". The Court decided that data will relate to an individual if it: "is information that affects [a person's] privacy, whether in his personal or family life, business or professional capacity". The Court identified two issues that may aid in determining whether information "is information that affects [an individual's] privacy" and, thus, "relates to" an individual:

".whether the information is biographical in a significant sense that is, going beyond the recording of [the individual's] involvement in a matter or an event which has no personal connotations."

"The information should have the [individual] as its focus rather than some other person with whom he may have been involved or some transaction or event in which he may have figured or have had an interest ."

If an individual's name appears in information, the use of the name implicates 'personal data' only where its inclusion affects the named individual's privacy. Thus, the fact that an individual's name appears on a document, does not mean the information contained in that document will necessarily be personal data about the named individual. It is more likely that an individual's name will be 'personal data' where the name appears together with other information about the named individual such as address, telephone number or information regarding his hobbies.

TICO suggests that the following examples of information will not normally be personal data:

  • mere reference to a person's name where it is not associated with any other personal information;
  • incidental mention in the minutes of a business meeting of an individual's attendance at that meeting in an official capacity;
  • where an individual's name appears on a document or e-mail indicating only that it has been sent or copied to that particular individual - and there is no other information about the individual within it.

The Court of Appeal also considered the definition of 'relevant filing system' and held that it was to be more narrowly construed than had been previously advised by TICO.

A 'relevant filing system' is a "system":

  • in which files are structured or referenced so as to clearly indicate at the outset of the search whether specific information capable of amounting to personal data of an individual making a subject access request is held within the system and, if so, in which file or files it is held; and
  • which has, as part of its own structure or referencing mechanism, a sufficiently sophisticated and detailed means of readily indicating whether and where in an individual file or files specific criteria or information about the applicant can be readily located.

TICO has now suggested using what it calls the "temp test" to assess manual filing systems. In other words, if an institution employed a reasonably competent temporary administrative assistant, would they be able to extract specific information about an individual without any particular knowledge of the work that the institution does or the documents that it holds, after only a short induction, explanation and/or operating manual on the particular filing system. If a temp could locate the information easily, the information will be held in a relevant filing system. TICO's guidance notes that very few manual files are currently likely to be caught by the DPA 1998 under this definition.

Institutions should be aware that the interpretation of these definitions may change either in subsequent case law or by a change in the law and should check TICO's website for updates.

 

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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Not too sure about that, its not very clear at the end, if they have ruled in the favour of the 'Temp Test'. If they have ruled this, then it is worth a try, but that does not seem the case, it seems that you need to check TICO's website to see if the law has changed (it might have?)

 

Good luck though.

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I had the same letter from them about microfiche and I sent a similar letter to yours via recorded delivery today. If they don't supply them shortly then I will estimate 3 x last two years worth of charges (which will be an overestimate no doubt as my finances were pretty good up until 3 years ago). I'm quite happy to do this as Barclaycard are one of the smallest fishes I am about to fry so I am quite happy to do this and if I end up losing then everyone else can gain from the (bad!) experience. I'm not hanging around for these people. I've got HUGE fish to fry.

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In the course of the last couple of months there have been many different attempts to address the Stalling arguements of both Abbey and Barclaycard regarding microfiche data.

It has been a word no Abbey claimant can not be familiar with.

But it should be remembered that they have both been taken to task on this and in the end they do comply.

There are already lots of settled cases from these 2.

 

As many people know Abbey are due to be paid a visit at their hq on September 12 following an avalanche of complaints to the info comms office.

 

That action has been prompted by the many who have complained.

It really does make a difference and an online complaint can be filed within a couple of minutes.

Its essential that pressure be put on these 2 organisations in their efforts to avoid compliance.

Keep the complaints going in .......

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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