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SENT DATA PROTECTION LETTER AND RECIEVED WHAT APPEARS TO BE USUAL GUMPH ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO RETRIEVE ANYTHING PREVIOUS TO MAY 2004 AS INCONVENIENTLY PUT ON MICROFICHE SO AM SENDING THIS LETTER C JUST NEED REASSURANCE IT IS OK. ADDED BIT ABOUT KEEPING RETRIEVABLE RECORDS THAT WAS COPIED

 

Account Number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated XX/XX/XX, outlining that you

could only provide me copy statements covering transactions from May

2004 on my account, because any earlier information has been archived

onto microfiche.I also acknowledge receipt of the information you

forwarded.

My request was for a complete list of transactions and charges

relating to my account – in short, a list of charges

with dates and amounts – alternatively, a complete set of account

statements for that period would be acceptable. This should be

retrievable from your accounting systems, and easy for you to

produce. I will accept a computer print out of these transactions.

 

As you will be aware you need to have a 'relevant filing system' this

is a system in which files are structured or referenced so as to clearly

indicate at the outset of the search whether specific information

capable of amounting to personal data of an individual making a

subject access request is held within the system and, if so, in

which file or files it is held and which has, as part of its own

structure or referencing mechanism, a sufficiently sophisticated and

detailed means of readily indicating whether and where in an individual

file or files specific criteria or information about the applicant can be

readily located.

 

I am aware that you have been willing and able to provide other

customers with a print-out of transaction information covering this

period – and am ready to bring this to the attention of the

Information Commissioner should it prove necessary. I would also

draw your attention to Smith v Lloyds TSB Bank plc (2005) EWHC 246

(Ch).

This letter has been sent by first class recorded delivery, and

therefore should have reached you by XX/XX/XX – as you will be aware,

as of this date you have just XX days in which to comply with my request.

As stated above, a complete set of account statements for the period in

question will be acceptable; however, I expect this to be provided

within the time period for Data Protection Act compliance.

Should there be any further attempts to delay compliance, I will be

left with no alternative but to commence a County Court action under

section 7, and section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998, and in

due course, escalate this matter into an official complaint to the

Information Commissioner and the FSA.

 

Yours faithfully,

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This looks like the one in the Abbey threads which I understand worked when they tried the same argument.

 

I have today posted the same letter myself to Barclaycard (by recorded delivery) with a similar addition pointing out that if they can supply me statements at £3 each then they must be stored on a referenced filing system.

 

If they dont respond with the rest of the data I have requested then I will make an estimated claim based on 2 years of details x 3. If it goes to court I hope they can explain to the judge why the claim is estimated. I will be very happy for them to contest the figures if it means they admit contravening the DPA and denying me my legal rights.

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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Barclaycard are correct about microfiche not being 'a relevant filing system' - this was determined in a previous legal case where the judge ruled that microfiche was not a relevant filing system for the purposes of the data protection act.

_________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester MBNA Credit Card

Data Protection Act letter sent 3 July 2006.

Incomplete list of charges received 12 August 2006

Requested repayment of charges 10 November 2006

LBA sent 24 November 2006

Estimated £4650 in fines and interest.

Barclaycard

Data Protection Act letter sent 3 July 2006.

Incomplete statements sent 9 July 2006

Requested repayment of charges 14 August 2006

LBA sent 30 August 2006

Estimated £468 in fines and interest.

Initiated claim at MCOL 20 September 2006

Claiming £615.47 including fines & interest, s69 interest and costs

Claim acknowledged 10 October 2006

Defence filed 20 October 2006

Settled in full £640 total. 14 December 2006

Vodafone

Requested Default Notice removed 10 July 2006

Received letter agreeing to request 10 August 2006

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I must confess this is my first post and I am only about to start this whole process with Barclaycard. I will post a separate thread to detail my action.

 

One thing I do not get about the whole microfiche business is this: how should the means by which Barclaycard store their information about me impact my ability to obtain that information?

 

If under the data protection act I am entitled to that information for a maximum fee of £10.00, how easily or difficult they make the job of retrieving the info is surely their problem not mine.

 

If they have chosen an inefficient or illogical means of filing this info, I fail to see how this should impact my rights or means of retrieving it.

 

They know that it may be requested within a reasonable time period and as such they should look to store the data in a more accessable manner.

 

Or is there another point that I am missing?

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No it won't work - a judge ruled in the Johnson Vs MDU case that microfiche was not a relevant filing system according to the terms of the Data Protection Act -therefore Barclaycard are, unfortunately, well within their rights to refuse to provide such information in response to a DPA Special Access Request.

_________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester MBNA Credit Card

Data Protection Act letter sent 3 July 2006.

Incomplete list of charges received 12 August 2006

Requested repayment of charges 10 November 2006

LBA sent 24 November 2006

Estimated £4650 in fines and interest.

Barclaycard

Data Protection Act letter sent 3 July 2006.

Incomplete statements sent 9 July 2006

Requested repayment of charges 14 August 2006

LBA sent 30 August 2006

Estimated £468 in fines and interest.

Initiated claim at MCOL 20 September 2006

Claiming £615.47 including fines & interest, s69 interest and costs

Claim acknowledged 10 October 2006

Defence filed 20 October 2006

Settled in full £640 total. 14 December 2006

Vodafone

Requested Default Notice removed 10 July 2006

Received letter agreeing to request 10 August 2006

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Barclaycard Data Protection Act 05/07 Recorded Delivery enclosing £10 fee

11/07 Rec meaningless printouts not showing any charges and letter stating statements prior to 2004 arenot held on computer

13/07 sent letter from BAGlibrary recorded delivery asking for complete set of transactions

18/07 rec letter saying cannot provide as information is "not readily accessible", but for £3 per statment they can produce information.

Does this mean we have no way forward? Would it be advisable to pay the

£3 per statement. Foolishly I have not keptany statements so would be unable to estimate a figure

I promise if I am successful to donate to this site which has provided me with

information and encourgement to "take up the fight "

____________________________________________________________

Situation to date

Halifax BOS DPA 14/06 Rec Delivery £10 fee Reply rec 24/06

Only one years statment - phoned told other statements would be sent in 7days.

Statements received 4/07.

Claim for repayment of charges sent 05/07/06.

Letter of acknowldgement rec 06/07.

LBA sent 20/07 ...............

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Shellevans, no it does not mean that unfortunately - case law has decided this - microfiche is not a relevant filing system. I may be mistaken but as the judge has interpreted and ruled in this way it would take an act of parliament to overturn it.

 

I don't see anyway round it.

_________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester MBNA Credit Card

Data Protection Act letter sent 3 July 2006.

Incomplete list of charges received 12 August 2006

Requested repayment of charges 10 November 2006

LBA sent 24 November 2006

Estimated £4650 in fines and interest.

Barclaycard

Data Protection Act letter sent 3 July 2006.

Incomplete statements sent 9 July 2006

Requested repayment of charges 14 August 2006

LBA sent 30 August 2006

Estimated £468 in fines and interest.

Initiated claim at MCOL 20 September 2006

Claiming £615.47 including fines & interest, s69 interest and costs

Claim acknowledged 10 October 2006

Defence filed 20 October 2006

Settled in full £640 total. 14 December 2006

Vodafone

Requested Default Notice removed 10 July 2006

Received letter agreeing to request 10 August 2006

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Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Johnson V MDU case about processing of data and NOT how it was stored. In fact the notes etc I have read about it don't even mention microfiche. Johnsons argument was that the MDU had improperly processed his data as part of a risk assesment ( which he agreed to) and as a result teminated his membership. He claimed this caused damage to his professional reputation. The argument was not about him being denied access to data held on microfiche.

 

Where Barclaycard are concerned they are deliberately restricting access to data by claiming the microfiche argument. As I understand it they have the same obligation we all have in regards to the Inland Revenue, namely, to retain financial data in an accessible form for 6 years.

 

If they can supply archived statements for a fee then that data must be stored on a referenced filing system. I do not believe that a request for old statements is going to entail somebody doing a manual search based on date alone. Imagine the chaos that could result in. The microfiche HAS to have some means of identifying it to a particular account, either by account number or account name. If they can pinpoint a statement form 5-6 years ago to a particular account then that falls within the Data Protection Act.

 

One other thing comes to mind. The Inland Revenue can request financial data for more than 6 years if they are investigating money laundering. They are well within their rights to request data from Barclaycard or any other bank. Can anyone guess their response to the microfiche argument?

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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Can someone who has paid for statements due to the microfiche argument confirm if these held account number and/or name ?

 

If they do then either the fiche itself carries the details or Barclaycard keep a lot of paper filed away. In either case it still falls under the DPA.

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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Sorry Tamadus but I don't think that will make any difference:

 

"The narrow definition of a relevant manually filing system was applied in Johnson v Medical Defence Union [2004] EWHC 347 (Ch). Laddie J. said (ibid [34]) that there 'must be ready access...The data controller's employees must be able to identify relevant data at the outset with reasonable certainty and speed and without having to make a manual search'. The end result is that save in cases where there are very sophisticated indices,manual records of paper documents and microfiche records of paper documents are outside the scope of the DPA. He rejected the argument that information that is recorded as part of a relevant filing system retains its status as 'personal data' once it is removed from the relevant filing system by the data controller."

data protection

 

I don't think the Inland Revenue would be bound by the DPA in the same way as those making a Subject Access Request.

_________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester MBNA Credit Card

Data Protection Act letter sent 3 July 2006.

Incomplete list of charges received 12 August 2006

Requested repayment of charges 10 November 2006

LBA sent 24 November 2006

Estimated £4650 in fines and interest.

Barclaycard

Data Protection Act letter sent 3 July 2006.

Incomplete statements sent 9 July 2006

Requested repayment of charges 14 August 2006

LBA sent 30 August 2006

Estimated £468 in fines and interest.

Initiated claim at MCOL 20 September 2006

Claiming £615.47 including fines & interest, s69 interest and costs

Claim acknowledged 10 October 2006

Defence filed 20 October 2006

Settled in full £640 total. 14 December 2006

Vodafone

Requested Default Notice removed 10 July 2006

Received letter agreeing to request 10 August 2006

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I may have missed the point here, but aren't the banks obligated to hold the data in an accessible format, so they shouldn't have changed the data to microfiche until the 6 year deadline.

 

I got the same crap about the microfiche, which is kinda odd since I started the account in Aug 05 so I obviously had no statements dating back before may 04!!

 

Chris

Any advice given is purely my opinion and not based on any legal fact unless referenced with a case. Follow my advice at your own risk. Although the fact may be correct, my interpretation and therefore findings may not

 

Barclays - £391 Just getting started

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/144290-chris-barclays-take-2-a.html

 

Barclays - £760 Settled in full

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/17995-chris-barclays-bank.html

 

Barclaycard - £100 settled in full

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/17996-chris-barclaycard.html

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From reading the recent threads, it does appear that there is no definitive way around the microfiche problem with them now receivinginso many requests. I do revert back to my original post stating quite simply how they store my data and how easily it is retrieved should be none of my concern.

 

However, there must come a point where you can estimate how many charges you are likely to have accrued. In the last 3 years I've been hit for £180.00 by Barclaycard and £74.00 by Monument.In this case for instance it is touch and go as to whether I would recoup £108.00 in charges to justify the search. For others this may not be the case.

 

Surely in this case it is worth the gamble for some though. It is annoying that the £10.00 is being surpassed and it does appear they have found a loophole to exploit. However, surely if this went all the way, this would lend further weight to how 'reasonable' we, the customer are, and likewise how unreasonable the Bank has been. It may well be worth adding these excessive retrieval costs then into the final claim on the basis that they should not surpass the £10.00 fee.

 

At present I intend to persue the latest 3 years and then see if we make any progress to obtain the previous three separately without encountering such punitive retrieval fees.

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Alternatively, as I think was mentioned earlier, estimate the charges then add some on top to make them prove the claim is for too much, that wayh they would have to show the statements!

Any advice given is purely my opinion and not based on any legal fact unless referenced with a case. Follow my advice at your own risk. Although the fact may be correct, my interpretation and therefore findings may not

 

Barclays - £391 Just getting started

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/144290-chris-barclays-take-2-a.html

 

Barclays - £760 Settled in full

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/17995-chris-barclays-bank.html

 

Barclaycard - £100 settled in full

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/17996-chris-barclaycard.html

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Ouch,

THanks for replying Roy -- it just seems that if they have it on a seperate system --- ie.. their accounts system thay should give it us via that route.....

 

Wishful thinking on my part

 

Well back to getting some money back off the other ratbags to fund getting money back off these ratbags eh!! 'cos one way or another I'm gonna get it off 'em .

 

Can we definiotelt claim the £3 per statement as costs then????

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Any advice given is purely my opinion and not based on any legal fact unless referenced with a case. Follow my advice at your own risk. Although the fact may be correct, my interpretation and therefore findings may not

 

Barclays - £391 Just getting started

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/144290-chris-barclays-take-2-a.html

 

Barclays - £760 Settled in full

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/17995-chris-barclays-bank.html

 

Barclaycard - £100 settled in full

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/17996-chris-barclaycard.html

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The microfiche arguement is nothing new.

It has been one of Abbeys main stallers.

However as detailed in more than one place on this site,the dpa request fee covers all your application.

 

Anyone as to any doubts should read alanfromderby his post titled the microfiche arguement covers this perfectly.

Also give advice on how to deal with getting those statements.

 

Have a look for it and see for yourself !!

 

 

:D

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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just thought i'd let you know got reply to letter today. no dice still saying unable to provide computer print out and microfiche not readily accesssible and not covered by dpa however can get copy statements at £3 a shot.

 

do not know how long i have had card so what then? they get statements and then bill me. in which case will i have to pay as information now readily accessible as no longer on microfiche.

 

alternatively if they do not reply to request for statements etc can i claim £5000 and then it is up to them to dispute amount

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just thought i'd let you know got reply to letter today. no dice still saying unable to provide computer print out and microfiche not readily accesssible and not covered by Data Protection Act however can get copy statements at £3 a shot.

 

do not know how long i have had card so what then? they get statements and then bill me. in which case will i have to pay as information now readily accessible as no longer on microfiche.

 

alternatively if they do not reply to request for statements etc can i claim £5000 and then it is up to them to dispute amount

 

You need to send them another letter this time more firmly.

Have a look in the defaults section and find alanfromderbys thread the microfiche arguement.

Send them a letter from here and remind them your original request date syill stands so the 40 days already starts from then.

 

Dont go claiming 5 grand unless you can back it up !!

Do it right and I know its hard but your patience will pay off for you.....whereas their stalling will cost them anyway !!

 

 

;)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thanks Will Do That. Was Feeling Very Tired. Had A Great Day With The Kids, Audition For Advert Followed By Science Museum Followed By Coming Home To Find B***cards Smug "we Don't Keep A Proper Filing System So B******r Off" Letter On The Mat. What Really P******d Me Off Was The I Hope This Puts Paid To Your Request And If I Do Not Hear From You Within 8 Weeks From The Date Of This "email" I Will Close Your Complaint File. Well Whoever Wrote This Obviously Doesn't Know The Difference Between Email And Post.

 

Anyway Thanks For The Advice. Have Had A Sleep And A Strong Coffee And Ready To Tackle Them Again. In Between Picnic At Local Country Park And Lots Of Ice Cream. I Need This Money Back Or Them To Get The Advert As These Holidays Are Costing A Fortune.

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Great spirit.

 

 

:)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just To Let You Know My 4 Yr Old Got The Advert For Xfm. Filming At Capitol Radio Last Friday And At Brixton Academy Tomorrow. Going To Be Shown In Cinemas. You Can't Miss My Little Boy He's The One With The Long Blond Flowing Locks.

 

Juli99

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Magic......well pleased for you both.

 

:)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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