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HFC - Advise please?


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After sending HFC (my husbands account) a CCA request and getting no response we sent out letter two - Account in Dispute to which we got a response stating that they had already sent out the information we requested by recorded delivery (after 12 + 2 thou)

Today got a card through the door for 'sign for' letter and it was from HFC the contents of whic are as follows:

 

Dear Mr ***

 

Account Number **********

 

Thank you for your letter requesting for information in relation to the above account.

 

Please find below the account information relating to your account in accordance with section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Date Account Opened: 19th September 2002

Payment Due date: **th of each month

Original Credit Limit: £7400

Last payment on Account£**** recieved on the **th October 2008

Current balance: £****.**

Account Status:

 

Please find enclosed the last six months statements of your account. the Statements enclosed will list any payments received or charges incurred to date.

 

HFC Bank Limited has been unable to provide a photocopy of your original agreement. However, please note that in accordance with Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 we provide a copy of the executed agreement that does not include information which it is permitted to exclude such as signatures and signature box.

 

I confirm the above account was opened on 19th September 2002 and is held in your name, ******. In addition, HFC Bank Ltd holds personal details which were supplied by you upon application, such as date of birth and employment details.

 

Whilst monthly payments have not been maintained in line with the terms and conditions, the payments that have been received have been submitted by yourself and it is reasonable to conclude that you have acknowledged this debt. In summary, our recordsconfirm that you have conducted the above account in a way that suggests you have a relationship with the bank. In view of this HFC Bank Limited holds you liable for the outstanding balance on the above account.

 

I trust the information I have provided to you is to your satisfaction but should you requier anything further, please do not hesitate to contact me at the above address.

 

Yours blah blah

 

Included in the envelope is a document entitled ' Your pre- approved application for the GM platinum card from Vauxhall - then underneath that in small writing it says Credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974.

 

below that - Your applicatioj number is: ...

 

Then a box that is entitled you and your requirements: Name address etc - make and model of car, card protection option.

 

Adjacent to that box 4 more boxes entitled:

Important - Use of your information

 

Your right to cancel

GM platinum card rebate points programme

Please sign: - this is a credit agreeement regulated by the CCA 1974 - sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms

 

Sorry it is such a poor copy it would not be legible if I scanned it!

 

Also included is a copy of credit card Terms and conditions which has HFC Bank Ltd Jume 2006 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED on the back - clearly not the original terms and conditions!!

 

Would appreciate advise on what to do now

 

Thanks in advance

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HFC Bank Limited has been unable to provide a photocopy of your original agreement.

 

Don't lose that letter!!

 

No copy agreement = unenforceable debt.:-D:-D:-D

 

The rest of their letter, (which is what they send when they're stuffed), is utter bullsh*t.

 

David

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Deaar Sirs,

Thank you for your letter dated ******** in which you confirm that there is no consumer credit agreement for this account. As you are aware this renders the alleged account in very serious dispute and totally unenforcable in court. I trust that this is the end of the matter and that you will abide by OFT guidelines by not demanding payment for an unsubstantiated debt.

Thank you for your patience in this matter and I would like to take this oppertunity to wish all your staff a very merry christmas and a less prosperous new year.

Yours ......

  • Haha 1
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Thank you for your letter dated ******** in which you confirm that there is no consumer credit agreement for this account.

 

Let's be pedantic for a moment. They haven't said there is no agreement, they have said they can't provide a photocopy. Perhaps their photocopier has broken down. Or something.

I would first ask why they can't provide a photocopy - is the photocopier broken, has the only person who knows how to use it left the company, or [crunch time] are they unable to find the original agreement?

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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I agree with Palomino,

You need to find out what cards they are holding before making any decision about contesting the debt.

Is the account very old?

They say or suggest you have a relationship with the bank, but until they can provide valid proof of an agreement, then the boot is on your foot

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  • 4 weeks later...

As wrote to HFC as advised just before CHristmas to ask for the reason why they cannot send a copy of the credit agreeement as requested - as yet we have not recieved a reply - should I write and ask again?

 

Also last week, despite us sending letter one and two stating the account was now in dispute - they have issued my husband with a Default Notice - is this posible when we have written stating that the account is in dispute??

 

We feel that they are ignoring our letters and just bullying their way ahead - but I seem to think that we have read on here that they should not have served the default notice...... Any suggestions of on what we should do next?

 

We are amazed that the leter is dated the 24th Dec - stating that we should remedy the breach before the 10th jan - 2 days after we recieved it!!

 

I am presuming the default notice is standard stuff but it it would help to se it I will use photo bucket and upload it.

 

Thanks

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HFC / Marbles have defaulted me despite no valid CCA. I even sent them several cheques for payment (using the £50 bank guarantee facility for cheques) in summer - all with letter stating my account number and address. They cashed all but two cheques which then led them bveing able to default me. They stated they were returned because of inaccurate account number on back (yes ok but letters had correct details!).

 

HFC have not replied to any of my requests for why they have defaulted me. Experian refuse to remove default. I am now waiting for ICO and FOS but not holding my breath. HFC have tried setting 1st credit on me twice but the usual send me a cca letter to them has resulted in HFC/Marbles taking account back it seems.

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We feel that they are ignoring our letters and just bullying their way ahead - but I seem to think that we have read on here that they should not have served the default notice...... Any suggestions of on what we should do next? No they should'nt have issued a DN whilst an account is in dispute, but quite of lot of banks do anyway.

 

We are amazed that the leter is dated the 24th Dec - stating that we should remedy the breach before the 10th jan - 2 days after we recieved it!! Not unusual for HFC (I got a letter from them on 13 Dec dated 24 Nov). Its because they use either Mailsort or UK Mail.

 

I am presuming the default notice is standard stuff but it it would help to se it I will use photo bucket and upload it.

 

Thanks

Wouldn't hurt to post it up - HFC aren't very good with Default Notices in my limited experience.

Edited by DocH

A couple of hundred years ago Meyer Amshel, (1743-1812), founder of the Rothschild dynasty is reported to have told his five sons, “Let me control a nation’s money and I care not who writes its laws”.

 

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what I have written is my own opinion garnered from reading this forum and consumer legislation, and my own experience of the judicial process.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to tickle my scales!!

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any suggestions on how to word a letter requesting them to confirm?

 

Have you read this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Maybe an alternative strategy for you.

A couple of hundred years ago Meyer Amshel, (1743-1812), founder of the Rothschild dynasty is reported to have told his five sons, “Let me control a nation’s money and I care not who writes its laws”.

 

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what I have written is my own opinion garnered from reading this forum and consumer legislation, and my own experience of the judicial process.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to tickle my scales!!

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Thanks for that DocH - I will try this way, I suppose you never know what these people have up their sleeves so to speak!!

 

I requested a CCA back in Nov for a HSBC card via Moocroft, they have sent two letters since stating taht they are awaiting relevant info from HSBC. last letter recived about a month ago - do you think I should send same letter to requesting info as you state above on this one, or just leave it until HSBCdecide to respond - tks

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HFC do this all the time, i recieved my DN 2 days before the date to remedy, it wont do them any good, i will put them to strict proof that they even sent it when it gets to court.

 

We are amazed that the leter is dated the 24th Dec - stating that we should remedy the breach before the 10th jan - 2 days after we recieved it!!

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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I requested a CCA back in Nov for a HSBC card via Moocroft, they have sent two letters since stating taht they are awaiting relevant info from HSBC. last letter recived about a month ago - do you think I should send same letter to requesting info as you state above on this one, or just leave it until HSBCdecide to respond - tks

 

Not in this case, Moorcroft/HSBC have not yet issued a Default Notice, so the legal process for enforcement hasn't yet started (which is the primary reason behind the alternative method). Have you sent Moorcroft the 'account in dispute' letter yet?

Edited by DocH

A couple of hundred years ago Meyer Amshel, (1743-1812), founder of the Rothschild dynasty is reported to have told his five sons, “Let me control a nation’s money and I care not who writes its laws”.

 

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what I have written is my own opinion garnered from reading this forum and consumer legislation, and my own experience of the judicial process.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to tickle my scales!!

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Sent a letter to HFC as sgeeted in thread posted by Doch, still awaiting a response. Also still awaiting a letter asking for them to substantiate why they cannot provide a copy of aggrement as pewr CCA request (sent 22nd Dec)

 

My other half received the following letter from Restons Solictors yesterday, which seen as on the bottom of HFC letters states ' member of HSBC group' we sumise is regading this C Card - despite the letter not stating the full account number - 4 digits are missing

 

Dear Sir

 

HSBC Bank PLC V Yourself ref XXXXXXXXXXXX

Overdue Credit Card balance: £XXXXX.XX

 

We are instructed by HSBC Bank PLC to claim immediate payment from you of the balance outstanding on your overdue credit card as detailed below:-

 

16/01/2009 Default balance £XXXX.XX

16/01/2009 Collection Charge £XXXX.XX

Post Refrl Cr Nil

Total Due £XXXXX.XX

Plus capitalised interest as appropriate

 

You must now pay £XXXXX.XX to this office by Monday, 26th January 2009 faiing which a summons will be issued for the full balance PLUS any continuing interest, fees and costs. A judgement may be entered against you which will be registered. Your credit record will be affected making it difficult for you to obtain credit in future.

 

Our client may be prepared to accept payment by instalments. If you wish them to consider this please complete the enclosed questionaire and return it to this office within 6 days. Unless we hear from you we may decide to telephone you on any number available to us. Alternatively please telephone us on the above DIRECT line within 6 days. All future correspondence/ payments should be sent to this office clearly marked with your name and account number. Receipts will not be given unless specifically requested.

 

Finally, our client has asked us to draw to your attention an oppurtunity for you to clear the account at a specially discounted settlement figure which can represent a substantial saving for you. If you are interested your should call the direct line listed at the head of this letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

First thought was to write and say account in dispute as no crdit agreemene has been provided, then thought..

 

IS it right to say HSBC, should it not be HFC Bank a nd also should we right to Restins and say we do not have an account with HSBC to that amount and or that acount number given that it misses off the first 4 digits....

 

any advise would be apprecaited

 

Thanks

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HFC are a bank within their own right for the purpose of court claims. Although they are a part of the HSBC group of companies, I believe I'm right in saying that if Restons cited HSBC on the court claim form as the claimants you would have cause for getting the claim thrown out. I wouldn't tell, let them dig their own hole.

 

Finally, our client has asked us to draw to your attention an oppurtunity for you to clear the account at a specially discounted settlement figure which can represent a substantial saving for you. If you are interested your should call the direct line listed at the head of this letter.

 

It may be a genuine offer, but if usually means they are stuffed because they don't have an enforceable agreement so please donate £XXX to us and we'll go away.

A couple of hundred years ago Meyer Amshel, (1743-1812), founder of the Rothschild dynasty is reported to have told his five sons, “Let me control a nation’s money and I care not who writes its laws”.

 

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what I have written is my own opinion garnered from reading this forum and consumer legislation, and my own experience of the judicial process.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to tickle my scales!!

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Thanks Doch - I do think that it is quite strange that the stated account number is incorrect and HSBC are stated and not HFC when all previous correspondance has come from HFC.

 

Do you think that we should contact them or wait and see what they do past the six days...

 

I am tempted to have the harrasement by telephone letter ready cos I think that they will start calling next week.

 

Or should we simply just wait and see what happens next, I suppose you never know we may get an agreeement through the post this week!

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I have had the same letter about a week ago, suggest you wait for the court claim, you have more than enough to defend, all your issues can go into your defence.

 

If it gets struck out, or they discontinue, it is extremely difficult for them to resurrect it.

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Personally I would send for a SAR asap. It will cost you a £10 postal order but you will be able to see exactly what HFC hold on your file. The letter is in the letters section.

Beating the DCA's day by day

 

My fight:

NDR - CCA'd 12+2 passed

Bank of Scotland - CCA'd 12+2 passed

CFS - Win by Technical Knock-out!:lol:

HFC Bank - CCA'd 12+2 passed

Chantry Collections - CCA sent

 

Time flies like an arrow

Fruit flies like a banana :D

 

<---------- Have I given you top advice, have I made you laugh, click on the scales, it won't hurt you! :grin:

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Thanks for advise guys - will send subject access request off as well as everything else as they are clearly avoiding responding to my request for a reason why they cannot provide an agreement

 

Whats more telephoencalls have started from Restons - voicemails to our L/L during day when we are not in, they have not tried mobile as yet, maybe they do not have up to date number. Should we send letter re telephone harrasement and send a copy of account indispute letter and all other letters sent to HFC requesting ifo which they have quite simply not supplied.

 

getting stressed now calls have started!

 

Thanks in advance

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If they are going to issue a claim, i don't think you will have long to wait, and at that point the calls will stop, you can send a harassment letter if you want to but i don't think its worth it.

I have just sent them a letter, and got a reply, we do not respond to unsigned correspondence.

 

Well that's ok then, i wont bother you again, (if you see what i mean).:)

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Or you could always sign it "Daffy Duck". Make sure it looks nothing like your signiture. I sent several letters to one DCA in which it was clear that the signiture said "Micky Mouse", "Captain Caveman" and "Fifi Forgetmenot". They never questioned the signiture ever.

Beating the DCA's day by day

 

My fight:

NDR - CCA'd 12+2 passed

Bank of Scotland - CCA'd 12+2 passed

CFS - Win by Technical Knock-out!:lol:

HFC Bank - CCA'd 12+2 passed

Chantry Collections - CCA sent

 

Time flies like an arrow

Fruit flies like a banana :D

 

<---------- Have I given you top advice, have I made you laugh, click on the scales, it won't hurt you! :grin:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

 

OH got caught by a call from Restons tonight - wanting to talk to him about his debt with HSBC for his John Lewis card - he alsmost started to talk to them until I told him to stop and request all future communication in writing - They were telling him that they are going to register debt with Northampton Court and take hime to court. My first reaction was crack on as debt is not officially with HSBC and certainly not for a John Lewis Card!!

 

Then I got thinking and relised that I had not sent a SAR to HFC as suggested above, have been looking at templates on here and the only ones I seem to be able to find relate to unfair bank charges - can any one give me a link to a SAR template that can ask HFC for all info held - which would force them to send a copy of a CCA sohuld they have one as they have failed to respond to any of our other request on this matter.

 

Think we may need this confirming as it looks like they are going to issue a claim and hubby is getting nervous.

 

Thanks in advance

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