why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement

[foolishgirl]

All depends on whether a) the judge had a decent breakfast, and b) whether he (or she) got laid the night before.

 

 

:D:D In the case of (b) is it more or less likely that a favourable judgment will be handed down or does it depend on who he/she got laid with?!

[the_shadow]

Has anybody had any joy with this method yet?

 

Have they filed in court?

 

I've just sent off two CPR requests, both have PPI on them and I'm prepared to go all the way to reclaim IF the agreement is enforceable or exists.

 

I've allowed 14 days for first letter, was going to allow 7 days for second then proceed straight to claim? [bearing in mind its already been attempted thru CCA req and SAR]

 

PmW

[paulwlton]

Has anybody had any joy with this method yet?

 

Have they filed in court?

 

I've just sent off two CPR requests, both have PPI on them and I'm prepared to go all the way to reclaim IF the agreement is enforceable or exists.

 

I've allowed 14 days for first letter, was going to allow 7 days for second then proceed straight to claim? [bearing in mind its already been attempted thru CCA req and SAR]

 

PmW

 

Yes, big time!. It's just come to light (today) a copy forwarded pursuant to CPR differs from the "true copy" forwarded previously under a section 77 request. The bank have issued a claim that's been allocated to multi track based on a doctored document...oh dear.

 

PW

[Alphageek]

Yes, big time!. It's just come to light (today) a copy forwarded pursuant to CPR differs from the "true copy" forwarded previously under a section 77 request. The bank have issued a claim that's been allocated to multi track based on a doctored document...oh dear.

 

PW

 

Is there a thread for this on here PW?

[Muffintop]

excuse me are you saying the agreement has come to light today?

[tendogs]

Just sent second letter today to CL Finance, gave them seven days, will file on Monday 02 March when they don't respond

[mikek]

Has anybody had any joy with this method yet?

 

Have they filed in court?

 

I've just sent off two CPR requests, both have PPI on them and I'm prepared to go all the way to reclaim IF the agreement is enforceable or exists.

 

I've allowed 14 days for first letter, was going to allow 7 days for second then proceed straight to claim? [bearing in mind its already been attempted thru CCA req and SAR]

 

PmW

 

I used this method and received signed statements from 4 high street banks and one that issues credit cards but has no branches. They sent the agreements before filing in court. One did not have an original agreement, second had the agreement completely damaged when filing in microfiche and no prescribed terms or signature are readable, third had it damaged when filing in mircofiche but clearly no prescribed terms were in the agreement, fourth has made mistakes when quoting prescribed terms, fifth looks enforceable but with serious omissions and mistakes in the terms in the agreement.

 

My conclusion: IF THEY HIDE BEHIND THE COPY REGULATIONS, IT IS MOST PROBABLY BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT. KEEP TRYING TO GET WHAT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO SEE IE SIGNED AGREEMENT.

Edited February 21, 2009 by mikek
spelling

[foolishgirl]

Yes, big time!. It's just come to light (today) a copy forwarded pursuant to CPR differs from the "true copy" forwarded previously under a section 77 request. The bank have issued a claim that's been allocated to multi track based on a doctored document...oh dear.

 

PW

 

Oh, joy. Can I come to court with you please?! I could use some entertainment.

 

Don't think you'll need good luck wishes on this one Paul.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

I sent a request using this method when CCA and SAR got me no-where.

They just sent me another set of T & C's - but they did send a copy of a data printout - which gave a transcript of when they sold me their PPI - which has proven very useful - I'm now going to claim that back. Ironic really because the PPI is what started this whole thing off for me. They still haven't coughed up with other bits that are missing.

Early debate about values of debts and whether they would be small claims or fast track??? confused me so I have issued proceedings because of their failure to comply with my SAR - no CCA, missing transaction info and no PPI contract.

I got the papers back from court this morning I forgot to tell them if I was a Miss Ms or Mrs:eek: They've kept my money tho. Papers now amended and back in the post (I passed the postman as he was leaving the street) If that was the only problem with the form things are lookng as though they are set to go. I'll update my thread on any news on this

 

At least I can tell the courts I have tried every avenue to get B/Card to comply with my request.

[Muffintop]

Cheers Simon,

 

I've been trying for daaaays to get a response to that question!

 

So, in layman's terms, what you're saying is that a Court CAN enforce my Agreement (made after April 2007), even where it is improperly executed, unless I can prove that I was mis-sold the Loan, etc?

 

Does this include the Agreement being signed by me in the first place then? In other words, I'm assuming that to get the Court to enforce the Agreement, they would still need to produce to the Court an Agreement signed by me, whether it contains all the pther prescribed terms, on the right pages, in the correct format, etc? So it's still worth pursuing to ascertain whether they hold a copy of the Agreement with my signature on?

Please humour me

Surely an agreement that does not have your signature on it cannot be enforced even post 2007...????? im a layman too.

[The GodMother]

from what i understand, which is not a lot about the 2006 regs, is that yes they dont have to have ur sig on it or anything relating to u just be able to prove threw use that u had the account.

[MarkieMark]

I am a little confused why consumers need to make a Subject Access Request when creditors have failed to disclose copies of credit agreements to the debtor.

 

I would have thought once you have made a request under section 77-78 and the creditor has not complied then you dont pay the loan. The loan goes into default and the creditor tries to enforce the loan by taking you to court.

 

The debtor would have strong defence making the court aware that the debtor made an application under section 77-78 and 61 but the creditor failed to provide a copy of the executed agreement.

 

If the debtor unaware of his/her rights and remedies under the terms of the agreement, it would be silly to make an order against the debtor.

 

I do not think making an application under the CPR 31.4 would make any odds?

 

I would be grateful to hear you views on this.

 

Markiemark

[pt2537]

I am a little confused why consumers need to make a Subject Access Request when creditors have failed to disclose copies of credit agreements to the debtor.

 

I would have thought once you have made a request under section 77-78 and the creditor has not complied then you dont pay the loan. The loan goes into default and the creditor tries to enforce the loan by taking you to court.

 

The debtor would have strong defence making the court aware that the debtor made an application under section 77-78 and 61 but the creditor failed to provide a copy of the executed agreement.

 

If the debtor unaware of his/her rights and remedies under the terms of the agreement, it would be silly to make an order against the debtor.

 

I do not think making an application under the CPR 31.4 would make any odds?

 

I would be grateful to hear you views on this.

 

Markiemark

 

If the lender defaults on a statutory request, then that does not render the agreement unenforceable

 

This is set out within the leading case of Rankine and Amex

 

the point to remember is that the lender can remedy the default and then seek to enforce the agreement and its terms

 

CPR 31.4 ?? im not sure of the relevence here of that provision

 

In this Part –

 

 

‘document’ means anything in which information of any description is recorded; and

 

 

‘copy’, in relation to a document, means anything onto which information recorded in the document has been copied, by whatever means and whether directly or indirectly

 

im guessing your meaning CPR 31.14?

[charliebubs]

Hi CAGgers,

 

So have we discovered anything???

 

Can people put their account in dispute if no CCA received or not?

 

Any answers, maybe pt could advise?

 

Hey guys,

 

I can't see that this was ever answered. I'm getting to the point now where I'm wondering whether or not to stop payments, but I'm not sure whether I can class my account as "in dispute" or not.

 

I don't want to do anything wrongly or jeaporise my positon.

 

Does anyone have the answer please??

[pt2537]

Hey guys,

 

I can't see that this was ever answered. I'm getting to the point now where I'm wondering whether or not to stop payments, but I'm not sure whether I can class my account as "in dispute" or not.

 

I don't want to do anything wrongly or jeaporise my positon.

 

Does anyone have the answer please??

It is a tricky question and one that i must tell you the correct answer is that until you have identified a cause of action against your lender and issued a letter of claim to them you should continue to pay as you will place yourself in difficulty otherwise

[paulwlton]

It is a tricky question and one that i must tell you the correct answer is that until you have identified a cause of action against your lender and issued a letter of claim to them you should continue to pay as you will place yourself in difficulty otherwise

 

I assume the above relates to a creditor placing a default/missed payments on one's creditfile.

[pt2537]

I assume the above relates to a creditor placing a default/missed payments on one's creditfile.

well i would say that you need to be prudent as merely failing to supply a credit agreement does not on its own allow you to cease paying, the creditor can produce the agreement at the later date and seek to enforce all of his rights under the agreement and rightly or wrongly a DJ will allow them to recover the outstanding monies

 

the best way in my view if you can is to look to establish a claim first then stop paying and launch the legal proceedings that way you do not prejudice yourself in the build up

[elizabeth1]

I am wondering if this procedure would be suitable for getting information form a defendant for a past case/claim. (it's a personal injury claim)

 

What I am trying to do is collect the info from defendants so that I have a more rounded picture of the correspondence that went on with the claims/cases.

 

I have already had the files from the solicitors who represented us and it appears they have ben very "choosy" in the content of the files that they have allowed us to have/see - so my thoughts are this stuff might help me to gain copies of the correspondence from the defendants = might be able to fill gaps in with this.

[charliebubs]

well i would say that you need to be prudent as merely failing to supply a credit agreement does not on its own allow you to cease paying, the creditor can produce the agreement at the later date and seek to enforce all of his rights under the agreement and rightly or wrongly a DJ will allow them to recover the outstanding monies

 

the best way in my view if you can is to look to establish a claim first then stop paying and launch the legal proceedings that way you do not prejudice yourself in the build up

 

Thanks PT - that is what I thought.

 

So many people on here seem to send the first letter, wait the 12+2+30 days and then stop paying. This seemed a little hasty to me!!

 

Thanks for your help

[JGJ]

pt257.

I accede to your greater knowledge, but are you actually saying that a D.C. can rightly OR wrongly, in effect do or adjudge exactly as they take fancy to do. Surely without a credit agreement there is not an agreement to enforce?? Given that criteria any.person turning up at your doorstep can in fact say you owe me £xx, I have no agreement but you have to pay up??

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

[pt2537]

pt257.

I accede to your greater knowledge, but are you actually saying that a D.C. can rightly OR wrongly, in effect do or adjudge exactly as they take fancy to do. Surely without a credit agreement there is not an agreement to enforce?? Given that criteria any.person turning up at your doorstep can in fact say you owe me £xx, I have no agreement but you have to pay up??

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

No obviopusly the person at your door scenario would be told to "DO ONE" very quickly

 

however, if you have borrowed the money , spent the money, and did sign a credit agreement then i would advise caution

 

the purpose of this thread was to give a tool to fight back with, within the legal system, so that you could establish once and for all if the lender holds the true agreement and not some reconstruction

 

once you know, because if they dont have it they MUST TELL YOU they cannot hide behind the CCCNCDR 1983 here, you can decide which way to move forwards

 

for me it stands to reason you would want to know what your opponent holds in their hands before you start provoking them by refusing to pay

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

As usual bang on target PT

 

Peter

[pt2537]

Hi

 

As usual bang on target PT

 

Peter

Hello Stranger, good to see you back with us, i hope you are well

 

[JGJ]

pt257/peterbard

Why would a genuine creditor NOT inform you on the initial contact, or show you the agreement on the first approach, why is the whole process so devious and mysterious?? Why do we have to be treat so abysmally by the Financial Institutions/Banks whenever we have a problem/query with them? "EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

[Missy06]

Hiya all,

 

can any of the experts on the thread please confirm if I'm correct on the following:

 

1) In issuing the CCA letter, the aim is to DELAY PAYING OFF AN ACCOUNT IN ONES OWN TIME;

 

2) Although one delays paying off the account, defaults maybe lawfully issued on ones credit file and DCAs may still chase one for the debt.

 

3) In issuing the CCA letter, an individual CAN'T AVOID PAYING OFF THE RELATED DEBT; no matter when, the debt has to be paid eventually.

 

4) If one has already received a refund of charges for an account, the account can still be said to be in dispute if the bank can't find the CCA.

 

5) If a default has already been registered on an account, one can pay back as and when wants to on the account; afterall, the damage has been done. Or alternatively, one can just make an arrangement to make token amounts of say £10 p/m. Afterall, one still has to clear the debt?!?

 

6) If a default hasn't been registered, isn't it best to maintain the fact that the account is in dispute and just arrange with the creditor to make token amounts of say £10 p/m?!? Just to save ruining one credit file.

 

7) If the creditor later turns up with a CCA, the individual will owe not only the previous balance, but also any accrued interest on the previous balance which they ask for.

 

Thx in advance!