*Meteor* Parking Charge Notice at Railway Station Grrrrr (Pictures enclosed)

[lochrannoch]

On Saturday i parked at Staplehurst Railway station in Kent. I have done this for 4 years and to the best of my knowledge it has always been free at weekends but i returned home to find i had a yellow Parking Charge Notice on my car. It seems they must have started charging with the last fare hikes a few months ago but i hadn't realised. The charge is £1.50 yet they want me to pay £45 within 15 days or £90 thereafter.

 

I would like to fight the charge and have been doing some searching on this excellent forum. If anyone can offer advice it would be much appreciated.

 

There are no signs as you drive in telling you it is a pay and display car park. And i walked past no pay machines or signs between my car and the platform. There is however plenty of machines dotted around the car park with blue 'Pay here' signs on top of them.

 

So should i say the signage isn't up to scratch and i wasn't aware of the need to pay. It was a very cold frosty day so i could say the plastic was iced over on the sign making it impossible to read when i got the train at 0540 in the morn.

 

Other lines of defence i've considered was to say i work for Network Rail and plead pity saying i wasn't aware they charged on Saturdays and i wouldn't do it again. I do work for Network Rail BTW

 

Also i've considered the line that a £45 fine is an unreasonable penalty and they can only sue me for their lost revenue, ie; £1.50.

 

Any advice please? My wife thinks i'm bonkers and should just pay the damn fine! I'm waiting for an email before i can attach photos of the ticket issued and the car park entrance:

 

 

 

Please let me know if these photo's don't work. Thanks in advance.

[Al27]

No need to fight or think of a defence - it's the usual private company rubbish.

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore any letters you receive, no matter how threatening

• they will give up and go away

 

In theory you could cover yourself by sending them £1.50 with a letter such as

 

"Re. 'Parking Charge' 12345

 

Dear Meteor

 

Please find the £1.50 you are owed enclosed. If you are not the landowner, please forward it to the relevant organisation.

 

I trust this is the end of the matter.

 

Regards"

 

 

 

No name, no address is required. They won't leave you alone, but at least you've covered yourself.

[lochrannoch]

Sorry the photo's didn't work.

 

Here's the links:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice Al27. Are you speaking from experience or would i be getting off on the DVLA data protection issue...?

Edited December 11, 2008 by lochrannoch
Adding photos

[Al27]

There's no need to 'get off' - you paying £1.50 should help you in the 0.000001% chance of it going to court.

 

Personally, I'd just ignore them. If they asked for £1.50 then fair enough, but the fact they're threatening you over £45/£90 they have no legal right to.

 

I've completely ignored private PCN's before with complete success

[lochrannoch]

I just wondered whether railway bylaws make any difference to my stance.

 

I am unable to post a photo at the moment so here is the wording on the ticket:

 

NOTICE OF BREACH OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF PARKING AT ANY CAR PARK OWNED OR MANAGED BY METEOR PARKING LIMITED ON BEHALF OF SOUTHEASTERN.

The car park is regulated by the terms and conditions displayed at the car park. By entering the car park you have agreed and contracted to be legally bound by those terms and conditions.

Serial No, Isssued at..etc.....

In breach of the terms and condictions: Failing to display a valid ticket or voucher

By reason of the breach you are required to pay the sum shown below:

Within 30 days £90 however if you pay within 15 days Meteor will accept £45.

If payment is not received within 30 days Meteor Parking Limited will commence collection procedures (which may include legal action) for the recovery of the sum claimed in this notice along with all costs associated with its recovery.

The sign on the actual pay machine says:

 

It is an offence to:

Fail to display a valid permit

Fail to display a valid ticket

Park in an unauthorised area etc....

 

Next to the pay machine is a notice with lots of rules. Section 14 states:

 

Where you park your vehicle in breach of these terms and conditions the company or its agents may (in its/their absolute discretion) either:

14.1 Apply a Parking Notice Charge

A parking Notice Charge (PCN) may be attached to your vehicle or handed to you.

The PCN will specify:-

-the sum you are required to pay

-the time within which payment must be made

-the address to which payment must be sent

The PCN will explain that unless payment is made in accordance with its terms court action may be commenced to recover the sums due from you under the PCN together with costs, interest and any other sums legally recoverable; and/or

14.2 Apply a wheel clamp to your vehicle.

The company its servants and agents adhere to the British Parking Associations Code of Practice for the clamping of vehicles. then more clamping waffle not applicable to me

14.3 Remove your vehicle

more waffle not applicable to me

14.4

All or any of the above enforcement actions may be applied in relation to any of the following:-

-failing to display a valid ticket

etc.. more misdemeaners

Where you take any action to the use of the car park and/or your vehicle, the company reserves the right to take any action it considers appropriate in accordance with railway bylaws in addition to any other action the company may take in accordance with this condition 14.[/color]

14.6 These terms and conditions are in addition to and without prejudice to any other legal rights and/or remedies of whatsoever nature that the company may have against you in relation to your vehicle and/or the use of the car park.

Phew...

Thanks again Al27

 

 

[lamma]

bylaws not mentioned so no they don't. even when they are mentioned it pays to check, some PPCs have be known to claim them falsely. This one based on contract according to the text you provided.

[lochrannoch]

I know there was a lot of waffle in there but it mentions bylaws near the end of the sign posted next to the ticket machine:

 

Where you take any action to the use of the car park and/or your vehicle, the company reserves the right to take any action it considers appropriate in accordance with railway bylaws in addition to any other action the company may take in accordance with this condition 14.

[lamma]

read the first few words on the 'ticket' "NOTICE OF BREACH OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS" not a breach of bylaws. Did I mention that some PPCs try to claim bylaws when they are not applicable. or that the PPC game is a [problem] where they want your money and will do all sorts to get it from you. By all means post up pictures of the invoice and the signs etc

[RichardM]

Also on the signeage

 

The car park is regulated by the terms and conditions displayed at the car park. By entering the car park you have agreed and contracted to be legally bound by those terms and conditions.

Why would a company choose to apply contractural law to a situation, if they had the far more rigorous statutes of Railway Byelaws to use as a penalty, particularly as these can be enforced in a court of law?

 

This bunch have thrown in words like Byelaw only in the hope of causing doubt and confusion over their exact status

[Al27]

Why would a company choose to apply contractural law to a situation, if they had the far more rigorous statutes of Railway Byelaws to use as a penalty, particularly as these can be enforced in a court of law?

 

Too much effort. It's much easier to make money if you just give out tickets and send threatening letters instead of dealing with the courts.

[lamma]

much easier to use the bylaws that way it goes through magistrate's court. also the basis of the charging must be in accordance with the bylaws when they are actually in force, they cant switch horses. ergo they are riding a loser.

[Steve__M]

Wouldn't the magistrate's fine be a fine, not a charge. The parking company wouldn't see a penny of it (nor Network Rail?).

[lochrannoch]

Ok it's the last day for me to pay before the fine goes up to £90.... Am i gonna pay? Hell no

 

Just thought i'd bump it for some more support if anyone missed it 1st time round and so i can clarify my actions.

 

I wait for a letter to drop on my mat as i have made no contact with them and never sent them the £1.50 either.

 

When the letter arrives i reply using the standard letters saying i do not know who the driver was and can you prove the offence?

 

Also use the defence of the Data Protection act saying they should not have my address??

 

Cheers

[lochrannoch]

Thanks to everyone that took the time to read and reply to my appeals. I'm sorry to say i had a change of heart and paid the fine today before it increased to £90.

 

The deciding factor for me was the fact the ticket stated i had breached the terms and conditions as displayed in the car park. The terms and conditions published in the car park stated they can use the railway bylaws against me. I read various threads on here about railway bylaws which gave me no confidence in the defence i planned to put up.

 

The usual "i was not the driver" argument holds no weight as it is the keeper who is responsible on railway land.

And saying you should not have got my details from the DVLA is not much good once they have it.

 

I have little doubt the matter would not have reached court and i would probably have got away with it however faced with months of threatening letters and a nagging wife i chose to avoid the stress.

 

Again, thanks for the support and sorry for giving in! Should i get an unjust parking fine in the future i will certainly hope to fight it, just not on the railway.

[lamma]

you have been conned this was not a bylaws ticket, you can't contract to statute !!. Your money your choice. Don't be surprised if they look out for your vehicle even more now they know you are a payer.

[crem]

I have little doubt the matter would not have reached court and i would probably have got away with it however faced with months of threatening letters and a nagging wife i chose to avoid the stress.

 

I guess this is understandable. Months of letters threatening all sorts I am sure you could have weathered. But a nagging wife...... well there are limits to a man's endurance aren't there.

[JonCris]

The 1st sentence say it all & blows their demand out of the water "It is an offence" since when & it's unlawful to make such a claim

[lamma]

I suspect that claiming the right to enforce railway bylaws when no such right exists goes beyond unlawful and is illegal (Fraud Act plus others).

[Al27]

If you paid by cheque CANCEL IT.

 

Got to say, you're a bit of a dope :wink:

[cormachall]

Hi, I'm not sure whether I should start a new thread but as a ticket was issued by Meteor I think it makes sense to come in here.

My car was ticketed recently as Ashford Station for parking in an unauthorised area (half on grass half on the tarmac as there were no spaces - not blocking anyone). I wrote to them informing them that i was aware my car had been ticketed but as I was not driving I would not be paying and not to bother me any more.

 

I received a response today from Meteor Parking Ltd. (My italics)

We have considerd your representations and the evidence provided carefully, however we regret to inform you that they do not establish any grounds or suitable reason to cancel the parking charge notice.

The PCN has been issued for "Parking in an unauthorised area". It is clearly stated within the terms and conditions of the car park that it is strickly prohibited for a vehicle to park in an unauthorised area without displaying a valid permit for parking (a ticket was purchased and was on display). If you fail to adhere to these terms and conditions a parking charge notice will be fixed to your vehicle or handed to you.

I have investigated your appeal and considered your points raised and am satisfied that the parking charge notice was issued correctly and will be upheld on this occasion.

I appreciate your comments with regard to your not being the driver of the vehicle on the day in question and that you are under no obligation to disclose who was driving. However I am obliged to point out that if the above Notice is left without some appropriate action it will escalate to debt recovery status and as the registered owner, you will then be contacted by Southeastern Railways's debt recovery agents for full settlement.

Therefore within 30 days of the date of this letter being served, you must either make payment for this notice or appeal against our decision within 7 days. The payment required within 30 days is £90 however, if you pay within 15 days Meteor will accept £45. If you fail to make payment or present a further appeal, Meteor Parking Limited will commence collection procedures for the recovery of the sum claimed in this notice along with all costs associated with its recovery.

 

How to make payment

etc etc

 

Is this bluster or will I be hounded by SE Railwyas and is that different to Meteor chasing me (I am the registered owner). Having been hounded by bailiffs a few years ago for another parking fine (I ended up winning in the court as I proved the bailiffs lied) I am not keen on going through that process again but equally do not want to pay of I do not have to.

Any suggestions?

 

Many thanks

Bryan

[Al27]

Carry on ignoring.

 

Note the use of 'terms and conditions' and 'parking charge notice'. If it was legit it would talk about a 'Penalty Charge' and specifically state which Railway Byelaw was breached.

 

However I am obliged to point out that if the above Notice is left without some appropriate action it will escalate to debt recovery status and as the registered owner, you will then be contacted by Southeastern Railways's debt recovery agents for full settlement.

 

The owner will be contacted - so what? It doesn't make them liable. There is also no such thing as a 'registered owner', only a registered keeper.

 

Is this bluster or will I be hounded by SE Railwyas and is that different to Meteor chasing me

 

They state 'SE Railway's debt recovery agents'. Means nothing - anybody can hire 'debt recovery agents'. They then backtrack and talk about Meteor commencing 'collection procedures'.

 

 

Someone has sat down and tried to make their letter sound as misleading as possible with some quite sneaky wordplay.

 

Ignore their rubbish.

[cormachall]

Many thanks A127. I thought it may be bluster and also that the letter was deliberately confusing.

 

I'll ignore and post what happens next

 

Happy Christmas

Cormac

[tommy clemmensen]

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