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URGENT: Disciplinary hearing about absence... I believe I had approval


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I would like advice as I have been informed that I am to attend a disciplinary hearing tomorrow due to my absence from work today.

 

Last week I found out that I was able to take a driving test that would fall during a shift that I was on rota for - this was 7 days before the day I wanted to have off. I am a part time worker. My direct report (shop floor manager) then rubbed my name off the rota and as a result I booked the test whose fee was about a day and a half's wages. I offered to try and find someone to cover my shift but there were only two people who were off neither off whom could do it and I informed my boss of this to which she did not reply other than to say o.k. When I left work last night, I said to my boss that I would see her on Friday and she said good luck in my test. The shop is a small business of around 10 employees.

 

Today my boss's boss called (while I was off for my driving test) asking why I was not at work and saying that my absence was unauthorized since I had not found someone to replace my shift and that I would be called to a disciplinary hearing tomorrow morning.

 

Is my boss's boss correct in saying that because I was unable to find a replacement for my shift that my leave was therefore unauthorized? There is nothing in my contract of employment that states that it is my responsibility. I felt that my offering to find someone was a courtesy not a prerequisite for taking the day off since my name had been taken off the rota and that this was not made an explicit precondition. Is this normal practice? I would have thought it is ultimately management's responsibility to find cover for my shift.

 

Any advice as to whose responsibility it is and whether my direct boss's actions of taking my name off the rota and wishing me good luck is sufficient evidence that I had been authorized.

 

Thanks!

 

Jay

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Any advice as to whose responsibility it is and whether my direct boss's actions of taking my name off the rota and wishing me good luck is sufficient evidence that I had been authorized.

 

I can't comment on holiday booking procedures at your firm BUT if U have been left with the opinion that you could have the day off then surely something has broken down here.

 

I would never advise disciplining and employee if there has been a confusion such as this - but that said companies don't always follow reasonable advice.

 

And further evidence of this is the fact they are calling you to a Disc Hearing verbally (i presume) - should have been done by letter, 48 hours advance notice, right to be accompanied etc

 

Ultimately attend, remain calm, ensure any minutes are accurate, and put your case as calmly as you can

 

Good luck

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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I would suggest taking a colleague or union rep in with you - this is your right.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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Thanks for the advice! I will receive a letter in the morning apparently with the allegation and evidence that I was unauthorised which shall be interesting. I will definitely take someone for minutes and will call my shop floor boss for evidence. Will be interesting to hear her perspective.

 

Thanks again!

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I would have thought this issue was simple!

 

If your direct report is the floor manager and is aware you have requested the day off, then it is their responsibility whether or not their is cover!

 

Your floor manager should admit to the error on their part not yours!

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After reading everything again i am surprised a disiplinary has even been called-what a waste of time you are obviously in the clear.Dont sign anything and remember if it doesnt go your way which it will i am sure-appeal there and then.You couldnt have done any better.Did you pass the driving test.Bet you did. Tawnyowl

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Unfortunately I failed the test as I was too distracted about my discplinary hearing. What a waste of a day!

 

To make it worse I was informed an hour before the hearing that they are charging me with gross misconduct since I "wilfully ignored a clear and reasonable management instruction". According to company policy, gross misconduct could result in immediate dismissal. Interesting that they did not pursue it as "an unautorized absence" since the most serious penalty under company rules is a written warning (not even a final warning). Personally I think they are going overboard on this one since yesterday was apparently an incredibly busy day on the shop floor and all the managers had to be on floor all day because they were one employee down.

 

Anyway had the hearing and presented my case that I believed that I indeed had permission and therefore my absence could not be wilful but a result of a misunderstanding.

 

I was suspended until a descion is made this afternoon after deliberations.

 

I don't know what real recourse I have as it is such a small company that there is only the MD above my boss's boss so I find it hard to believe I would get a fair hearing since the MD and boss's boss who is charging me with gross conduct have been working together for over 10 years.

 

Just very disappointed in how this has been handled and the implicit attack on my integrity.

 

Jay

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Jay

 

How long U worked there?

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Getting worried about this-gross misconduct-suspended-dont even think you deserve a written warning.How long have you been there -is the company feeling the credit crunch are they looking for people to leave.Dont forget to appeal any decision you feel is harsh.Hoping for a good outcome and a sensible one-tawny

just in case make sure everything has been followed.

Appeals against disciplinary/grievance decisions | Business

 

Acas - Disciplinary procedure

 

Some gross misconduct charges feel that yours doesnt come under this-good luck

dishonesty, theft or fraud

- malicious damage

- fighting, assault on another person

- serious incapability through alcohol or illegal drugs

- actions which endanger employees' safety

- falsification or unauthorised removal of company records or property

- a serious act of insubordination.

Edited by tawnyowl
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I received notification in writing that I had been dismissed as I had willfully disobeyed a management directive and thus was guilty of gross insubordination and was walked off the premises.

 

I have only been there for three months and this time of the year is our busiest so it is definitely not an excuse for a "credit crunch" firing. I feel that it is a gross overreaction to what is a misunderstanding - even my floor manager said she didn't think it was willfull.

 

I am going to appeal but I don't like my chances since it is a small company and the MD and the manager who ruled on this issue have worked together for years. My only hope is that tempers will calm down and that he will reconsider and I will just be given a warning. Unfortunately yesterday was unusually busy so not conducive to a measured response I think.

 

I asked why I had not been charged under the disciplinary procedures for offenses that specifically include "unauthorized absence" whose maximum penalty is a first warning. I was only informed that this didn't apply since I had been given a clear direct order (something I don't believe I received).

 

What does everyone think my options are?

 

Thanks very much!

 

Jay

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You can't claim unfair dismissal as you haven't worked there for a year, but you can go to a tribunal to claim notice pay. Appeal first though. You can also claim other amounts outstanding such as holiday pay, but for this you will also need to raise a grievance first.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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I received notification in writing that I had been dismissed as I had willfully disobeyed a management directive and thus was guilty of gross insubordination and was walked off the premises.

 

I have only been there for three months and this time of the year is our busiest so it is definitely not an excuse for a "credit crunch" firing. I feel that it is a gross overreaction to what is a misunderstanding - even my floor manager said she didn't think it was willfull.

 

I am going to appeal but I don't like my chances since it is a small company and the MD and the manager who ruled on this issue have worked together for years. My only hope is that tempers will calm down and that he will reconsider and I will just be given a warning. Unfortunately yesterday was unusually busy so not conducive to a measured response I think.

 

I asked why I had not been charged under the disciplinary procedures for offenses that specifically include "unauthorized absence" whose maximum penalty is a first warning. I was only informed that this didn't apply since I had been given a clear direct order (something I don't believe I received).

 

What does everyone think my options are?

 

Thanks very much!

 

Jay

I am so sorry that the decision has gone this way and what a time of year to lose your job.Perhaps this firm has no Christmas spirit and as you say MD and manager have worked together for many years.Personally i wouldnt want to work for such a firm-certainly wouldnt get any sort of reference for another job of them and wouldnt mention them either if possible.I wish you well in any decision you make and wish you well in the future.I have sent another bit of info for you to look at-but dont think it will make much difference-but who knows.Good wishes Tawnyowl

Types of dismissal and eligibility to claim unfair dismissal | Business Link

 

Automatically unfair reasons for dismissal | Business Link

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Jay - with 3 months service it is very very unlikely you'll be able to get a UD claim out of this.

 

I know from personal experience, that in the current climate, some firms are invoking disc sanctions on 'dubious' grounds to low risk short service employees e.g. white, male, not disabled etc as they seem to think this is less work than going down a redundancy consultation route.

 

Whilst you probably can't get the UD claim you have NOT lost the right to notice pay, 1 week minimum (although do check contract for a more generous provisions), as you have not (on the facts as you tell them) committed an act of GM - regardless of what they say.

 

If this is not paid you should bring a claim for this + accrued holiday pay (sometimes termed wrongful dismissal) in either an ET or local county court.

 

On the facts in the OP as you tell them, you would have a greater than 50% chance of winning this claim.

 

The usual remedy would be an award to reflect the unpaid notice pay.

 

Don't let them get away ripping you off for this pay as they seem to have behaved quite poorly!

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Appeal how can your actions be classed as gross misconduct -the floor manager should help you in your appeal.If he wont he should be made to give a truthfull statement.What was this management directive.You gave them advance warning seven days-very fair.Your direct boss rubbed your name of the rota.Wouldnt have thought it was your job to find cover havent heard of that one before.Sounds like a rushed harsh decision Appeal Tawnyowl

Dealing with grievances, dismissal and disciplinary action at work

Read the warnings part i feel you havent been treated fairly-my view only.

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Name and shame the company, this is b**sh***T.

Lowell Financial (Monument) No CCA - File Closed ** WON**:D

1st Credit (Citi Financial) No CCA - Credit Report Marked 'Satisfied' ** WON **:D

American Express No CCA - Pending

RBS Mint No CCA - Pending

CL Finance (Morgan Stanley) No CCA - In Court:eek:

HSBC - No CCA - In Court:eek:

Link Financial (MBNA) No CCA - Pending

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