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Bank of Scotland terminated without default notice and without claiming full balance, Blair, Oliver Scott DCA


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My OH's accounts are exactly the same MMM - paid off the balances and then some, so the only things left are interest and charges on a completely unenforceable agreement with no historical terms.

 

I'm trying for a write-off from them as we've been at stale-mate for a while now - unlikely to work but worth a punt:)

I can't seem to get an answer to my query - my understanding is that if they have terminated on dodgy DN then all they can try and claim is arrears??

 

I am tempted to write to them and say that the notice of court proceedings - the sum they have requested - is that just the arrears? and as they would get nowhere in a court of law that is the end of it? It is a tough cookie. I have already quoted Woodchester a couple of weeks before I received this notice and wondered if they now know thats all they can claim back?? I am SARing them anyway.

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Hi Cleo:) I do not think I did anything different than a normal person. Yes I wrote to them and pointed out the termination without default being issued.However, I think that the judge will see I did nothing wrong , yet their behaviour is unacceptable and unlawful. They have reinstated unilaterally then whilst in the middle of a formal complaint got Blair to claim the whole balance now.

 

I cannot wait to see how they are going to explain that they provided no default notice to me or sent as their s.a.r confirms;) {and by the way the date in the letter from them said a default was issued and I know that the account WOULD NOT off reached that stage. They are talking cr@p cos they are panacking.

 

Besides a letter sent after the APPARENT default date mentioned NOTHING about a default notice being issued , it was just a reminder.

 

They are making it up as theu go along!!!

 

I honestly think ignoring them would not of looked very good in the judges eyes , pre action protocols and that. It would of looked like I was trying to gain something. I will not be taking them to court though, I will let them do that;)

 

The fact is THEY have terminated -FACT - them now processing my account and then getting Blair Witch to out the blue , whilst unlawfully reinstating my account to then claim for the WHOLE balance now shows just how unlawful their behaviour is and their incompetence.

 

I am absolutely sure that a judge will not be impressed.

 

I also have worked out sums I have paid them back in full the purchases over the years, its just the interest thats outstanding on my figures and their credit agreement stinks.

 

I will follow yours closely as it seems we are in a similar boat as my title says terminated without claiming the full balance:D

 

 

Milly XX

Hi - what did you reply when you received first notice of legal proceedings for small sum?

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Hi Cleo

 

The default notice I believe needs to only state the arrears needing to be paid in order to bring your account up to date. Once you pass the remedy date without doing as they instruct, then and only then can they claim the whole balance. I don't think they can claim the whole balance on the DN (unless of course you've never paid a penny in which case it would all be arrears!)

 

Unfortunately for them, if they issue a dodgy DN and then terminate the account on the back of that notice, they can only claim the arrears, as they have unlawfully rescinded the contract and are now barred from the benefit of (I think this is the correct one!) S87 which allows them to collect the full balance due.

 

Unfortunately for us, it seems that some judges need more persuading on this matter than others, so you need to keep your wits about you if you end up going to court (bear in mind this is all from my trawls around the site, and I don't actually have court experience, thank goodness:))

 

AFAIK, once they have terminated they are still under no obligation to collect the whole balance, they just have the right to (assuming the DN was issued correctly). So technically they could just ask for a small amount. It seems a bit odd to do that, and I can't see a reason for it, but then banks don't usually make too much sense:rolleyes:

 

BRW is pretty damn good on default stuff so it may be worth asking him for his opinion if you need a more certain answer.

 

Lexis:)

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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hiya cleo and everyone too

 

i just wanted to say hello to you all, im back to updating my threads now and i m going to send out a few more letters tomorrow

 

keep postive cleo, what lexis and milly have told you, to me it now all makes sense too, ive gone round the houses and had a bit of a panic after ts told me something this week, but i m now much calmer about it all and im trusting what im now reading from others,

 

but yes BRW is fab at these things, i agree ive learnt so much and from others too

 

so hang in, take care all

 

laters angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi - what did you reply when you received first notice of legal proceedings for small sum?

 

 

Well firstly on receipt of the held back letter received on 18th,I rang Blair Witch number on letter [ since now found out that I was ringing Bank of Scotland:mad:] they trick peeps but will ultimatley be their downfall for misrepresentation:grin:

 

I rang because BEFORE receipt of the termination letter I had sent to BANK OF SCOTLAND a Financial Statement and letter offering smaller payments.

 

I rang the disguised BLAIR WITCH and told them there and then that I had received NO default notice and that I had sent a letter last week to BOS concerning payment arrangements,before I had knowledge of the account being terminated and said that I would now the account was terminated {they DID NOT correct me!] arrange to pay them. she said legals proceedings had not yet commenced and that would be ok, she also said NO DEFAULT notice had been issued :wink: so I know they are lying now and SOMEONE has een tinkering it seems a bit on the computer, however I have proof on their OWN computer system that this apparent DN has NOT een sent;-) let then try and deny that now!!

 

Now I must say at no time did I let on in the call about the tiny sum claimed and they never said they were BOS and let me assume they were BLAIR. I left it at that.

 

Anyway I HAD TO send a letter to Blair because what happened next is on 26th November I received a letter from BANK of Scot concerning the Financial Statement letter/token payment and as i read the letter it became apparent that a date mentioned in the 'BLAIR' call was mentioned in this letter:mad: so they were trying to trick me and the way the letter went on it seemed that they had IGNORED the letter from BLAIR witch and that my account was running as on a informal arrangement and would be reviewed in 6 months:mad: I was mad and realised what they were up to so I then sent the letter to Blair/BOS sating that the account had been terminated and that I had received no default notice and that it was recission of contract, woodchester, blah blah.

 

So they knew then:rolleyes: but I had to make them aware that the Financial Statement WAS SENT BEFORE I was aware the account had been terminated INCASE they were trying to use that as allowing reinstatement. I had no precognition of the events that were happening {as in the termination letter, so the offer was void {also their terms for lower payments were different than my offer before termination, so voided that letter anyway:wink:]

 

I am not concerned about that though as the letter QUITE clearly says it is in reference to a telephone call on 12 sept and have proof delivered way before receipt of their letter.

 

 

so that is the reason I had to let them know. I then started the thread on here at that stage.

 

So basically THEY have terminated my account unlawfully and without a DN. yes they can make one up but it will not help them unfortunately.

 

 

Milly XXX

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Hi Cleo

 

The default notice I believe needs to only state the arrears needing to be paid in order to bring your account up to date. Once you pass the remedy date without doing as they instruct, then and only then can they claim the whole balance. I don't think they can claim the whole balance on the DN (unless of course you've never paid a penny in which case it would all be arrears!)

 

Unfortunately for them, if they issue a dodgy DN and then terminate the account on the back of that notice, they can only claim the arrears, as they have unlawfully rescinded the contract and are now barred from the benefit of (I think this is the correct one!) S87 which allows them to collect the full balance due.

 

Unfortunately for us, it seems that some judges need more persuading on this matter than others, so you need to keep your wits about you if you end up going to court (bear in mind this is all from my trawls around the site, and I don't actually have court experience, thank goodness:))

 

AFAIK, once they have terminated they are still under no obligation to collect the whole balance, they just have the right to (assuming the DN was issued correctly). So technically they could just ask for a small amount. It seems a bit odd to do that, and I can't see a reason for it, but then banks don't usually make too much sense:rolleyes:

 

BRW is pretty damn good on default stuff so it may be worth asking him for his opinion if you need a more certain answer.

 

Lexis:)

 

 

Hello Lexis:) exactly!

 

I will let THEM take me to court [if they are stupid enough!]as then I am entitled to defend and will not be at risk for costs. I will however be involving a solicitor me thinks now. so am doing some searching at the mo.

 

I am not going to answer any BLAIR witch demands {laughably for the Full balance now} ha shows how dodgy they are!!! because I said in my 2nd letter to BOS that I would ignore all further payment demands and that my account was in dispute and in a formal complaint being investigated.

 

Milly XX

 

Milly X

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Well firstly on receipt of the held back letter received on 18th,I rang Blair Witch number on letter [ since now found out that I was ringing Bank of Scotland:mad:] they trick peeps but will ultimatley be their downfall for misrepresentation:grin:

 

I rang because BEFORE receipt of the termination letter I had sent to BANK OF SCOTLAND a Financial Statement and letter offering smaller payments.

 

I rang the disguised BLAIR WITCH and told them there and then that I had received NO default notice and that I had sent a letter last week to BOS concerning payment arrangements,before I had knowledge of the account being terminated and said that I would now the account was terminated {they DID NOT correct me!] arrange to pay them. she said legals proceedings had not yet commenced and that would be ok, she also said NO DEFAULT notice had been issued :wink: so I know they are lying now and SOMEONE has een tinkering it seems a bit on the computer, however I have proof on their OWN computer system that this apparent DN has NOT een sent;-) let then try and deny that now!!

 

Now I must say at no time did I let on in the call about the tiny sum claimed and they never said they were BOS and let me assume they were BLAIR. I left it at that.

 

Anyway I HAD TO send a letter to Blair because what happened next is on 26th November I received a letter from BANK of Scot concerning the Financial Statement letter/token payment and as i read the letter it became apparent that a date mentioned in the 'BLAIR' call was mentioned in this letter:mad: so they were trying to trick me and the way the letter went on it seemed that they had IGNORED the letter from BLAIR witch and that my account was running as on a informal arrangement and would be reviewed in 6 months:mad: I was mad and realised what they were up to so I then sent the letter to Blair/BOS sating that the account had been terminated and that I had received no default notice and that it was recission of contract, woodchester, blah blah.

 

So they knew then:rolleyes: but I had to make them aware that the Financial Statement WAS SENT BEFORE I was aware the account had been terminated INCASE they were trying to use that as allowing reinstatement. I had no precognition of the events that were happening {as in the termination letter, so the offer was void {also their terms for lower payments were different than my offer before termination, so voided that letter anyway:wink:]

 

I am not concerned about that though as the letter QUITE clearly says it is in reference to a telephone call on 12 sept and have proof delivered way before receipt of their letter.

 

 

so that is the reason I had to let them know. I then started the thread on here at that stage.

 

So basically THEY have terminated my account unlawfully and without a DN. yes they can make one up but it will not help them unfortunately.

 

 

Milly XXX

I have written back enclosing a copy of THEIR letter saying my complaint has been "escalated" etc etc. It would be interesting if a few got together and all took them to court in a "class action" if thats do-able??

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Hi all I have received to lettres today from BOS in ref to complaint both dated 28th jan. Still prove that NO communication goes on cos one says the complaint is esclated.The second is their conclusion and referral to FOS:rolleyes:

 

Oh and guess what neither including the long awaited Default Notice copy, whats a girl to do:rolleyes:

 

Will post up the letters in next post and await advice on my next step. You have to laugh at the comment regarding the terminated account, talk about add in what I should interpret as the meaning of that famous letter!!!!

 

Milly XX

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Well any advice as to my next move!!!

 

Milly XX

 

 

p.S They have received the letter from me requesting the bits extra I requested regarding my S.A.R. awaiting that.

 

milly X

 

P.S the bit where they mention me saying I have no contactual obligations was regarding them processing my account still.

Edited by millymollymoo
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CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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hiya milly

 

so basically they are trying to say that you misunderstood that the account was terminated you did not have any debt to pay?

 

but in reality they have misunderstood without an enforceable agreement and a fully executed one at that - and that the dn and their admittance now that your account has been terminated, you have only the arrears to pay back as they have terminated you not in the legal manner

 

yes you tried to come to an agreement to pay a nominal amount but that was before you found your rights in a way that you are claiming Now do they have the legal right to process your details and collect on a unenforceable legal agreement.

 

i think from the letters im now seeing being posted, they are aware of their legal positions the banks, and now trying to tell consumers, you have had the money now just dont make a fuss pay up, its a moral standing they are trying to take

 

well we consumers are now challenging them on their legal standing we know the money has been given exchanged spent etc etc, but the whether they have had that money back already in charges andinterest and as the original cca is a legal contract is the crux of all what we are challenging

 

i would take it to fos myself let them deal with this, and let blair whip themselves into whatever they have to do,

 

maybe court is the only way this will be resolved in the end, but if it does you can at least use all this as part of your paper trail to get a resolution to their mess before you face court

 

just my mad thoughts whether ive got it wrong , if so i apologise

 

i note in the reply also that they mention your illness, im having a letter drawn up by my doctor to send to all my creditors about only in writing and no more phone calls as its not helping my health, im looking at a future harrasment claim if they dont comply with that wink wink##

 

another angle you can try, im also looking at the mental health issues for me and how they need to treat me better in my circumstances

 

laters gal, keep positive

 

angel x :cool:

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi Milly

 

Angel is right, they're going along the moral lines, but quite frankly if they can't use their millions of pounds of profit and the large legal teams they have at their disposal to ensure that all their paperwork is watertight, then they can't moan and bitch when you find they've essentially gifted you that money by cocking it all up.

 

If you're anything like me and my OH, you've paid off the balance and then some anyway, and now all that's left is interest and charges.

 

And they're correct in that they are not responsible if the DN doesn't turn up, as we know service is deemed as x days after postage unless you can categorically prove it's not turned up. However, I do find it amazing with all of these DN's that they are quite happy to send an incredibly important document by normal non-tracked post - and usually second class at that! Talk about not giving their customers a fighting chance!

 

Have you asked them for a copy of the DN? That would be interesting.

 

I can't really add much as it seems you're doing the same as most of us and just going round in circles:rolleyes: It's always worth a shot at the FOS anyway though; they might not get much done right now, but the more of us who complain the more likely it becomes that something will one day actually happen to the unscrupulous banks!

 

Lexis

 

 

edit - just seen you've asked for the DN before. Do you think they might be avoiding the issue;):)

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Thanks angel and lexis.

 

Yes I have asked for the default notice, i think 5 times now:rolleyes: They never sent one and it shows on my s.a.r this nugget of gold!! {I am not gonna say to much as it will give the game away;) I ACTUALLY really want to see it as I have said I had a letter from them 2 weeks later, a final notice and NOWHERE was a Default notice mentioned and the arrears balance would be interesting;)

 

As I said the account would not of reached that stage on 18 august, two payments were late not three for another month.

 

correct me if I am wrong though,as it normally takes 3 missed payments.

 

 

 

I also had a hold on the account till 30th august as i called them on 6th august to say I was going away and would be paid 30th.

 

The are so contradictory too as they even though unlawfully reinstated the account, even if that was allowed lets say have reterminated by claiming the full blance now and yet again without notification of this.

The letter sent on the 8th January referred to in their letter above said my account remained OPEN!!!! and yet recived another blair witch letter!!!

 

They are unreal honestly!!!

 

My illness is a haert condition and they ARE full aware and now continuing the phone harrassment

 

So how would you aswer their letter?

 

Milly X

Edited by millymollymoo
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CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Have you tried Ofcom and BT? I'm sure I read somewhere that if you complain directly to BT they can put a tracer on your phone, then when BOS keep phoning you BT will block it and have a word in their ear about it.

 

I'd give both BT and Ofcom a ring and ask what can be done, then you can write exactly what is going to happen if they keep phoning you. I'm not sure if you could also have a word with the police? I mean, if it was an individual phoning you like this you could get them involved as a malicious caller problem, so why not with them as they are causing you distress and exacerbating a genuine health problem.

 

With the default thing, one of OH's accounts was defaulted after 2 missed payements (coming up for 3 soon), and the other one has not been paid since June/July but has not to my knowledge defaulted. I haven't checked his credit file yet though so it may have one registered that we don't know about!

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Hi again, I am already on permant withold my number when the police got involved with a stalker:eek: issue 5 years ago. Bt sorted that all out for me. I have choose to refuse added too and incoming call bar, which I have done.

 

 

Regarding their letter in post 85/86. One good thing it confirms my account had come to an end [note the same as terminated as their letter said, they just don't want to use that word!!!] the bit that made me laugh was the added bit. It states '.....and you could no longer use the account....' blah blah.

 

this is their ADDED interpretation and made me laugh. Sorry but it DID NOT say that it just said 'You have failed to repay the requested amount by the date shown on the notice. As a result your your credit agreement is terminated.'

 

What twits so suddenly the letter had those added words they said!!!

 

About them constantly referring to not eing responsible for the debt, this is referring to me quoting the Woodchester case in my first ever letter and me putting i do not acknowledge any debt on the BLAIR WITCH letters.

 

 

today received another Blair witch letter claiming full blance as of january!!!

 

You know what makes me laugh their letter ADMITS termination around 10th November, that letter claimed JUST the arrears {this though included charges]

 

so the full balance at that date of the termination IF THEY HAD claimed this as we know they didnt on the termination letter {JUST THE arrears!]was £500 less than the FULL BALANCE they are now claiming due to them.

 

This ascertains that they unlawfully carried on processing the account and still are as per receipt of a monthly statement for january!

 

As if THEy had got this right on termination the balnce would nOT of een the same as the balance today if you get my drift!

 

Hope I have not confused you too much. This may explain why they do not want to give me a copy of the DN [if it exists anyway!] cos £500 is a massive diff to the termination date if they had claimed the full balance.[which we all know they didnt claim that]

 

 

Milly X

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Also I have noted them adding meanings to my words yet again!!

 

I said: 'I have no contractual obligations anymore which may of been agreed on opening the account as the account had long been accepted by myself as terminated on receipt of a formal demand from Blair.Oliver. scott your assigned debt collectors...'

 

This I said in reference to them selling the debt and still processing it.

I have found out that blair is BOS , not from them confirming that but by me working it out with the address issue and Lexis letter.

 

So therefore I was right in waht I put. When an account is terminated and the debtor believes it is sold. I would no longer have any contactual obligations to BOS.

 

Milly X

 

phone log today:

 

11.48am

12.19am

Edited by millymollymoo
phone log

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Also I have noted them adding meanings to my words yet again!!

 

I said: 'I have no contractual obligations anymore which may of been agreed on opening the account as the account had long been accepted by myself as terminated on receipt of a formal demand from Blair.Oliver. scott your assigned debt collectors...'

 

This I said in reference to them selling the debt and still processing it.

I have found out that blair is BOS , not from them confirming that but by me working it out with the address issue and Lexis letter.

 

So therefore I was right in waht I put. When an account is terminated and the debtor believes it is sold. I would no longer have any contactual obligations to BOS.

 

Milly X

I sard Blair etc today - when I went to the post office for the postal ordr - the post office assistant said "they come up as bank of scotland"

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Hello Milly!

 

It was jolly nice of BOS (bank) to confirm the alleged Agreement has ended:

 

...this letter was merely advising that the credit agreement had come to an end...

 

You could write back and tell them they are merely stuffed!

 

But, if you can take a step back, hell, make that a dozen steps back...you may see them for what they are:

 

...incompetent money-lenders who felt that complying with the legislation was beneath them. The laws are for the plebes, not the banks.

 

They will not back down, so there is nothing you can do to stop them doing whatever they intend to do. All you can do is keep your nerve, and write back short, sharp, clinical letters - only when absolutely needed - and always drafted with a Judge in mind.

 

Crank the pace down from now on, and force yourself to wait 2-3 weeks before you write anything back to them. So long as it's not a Court Claim, any letters you get from them can wait 2+ weeks. The key is to take your time, chill out, catch some rays, drink some wine, and deal with these people only when you are 100% ready and know 100% that what you will write will be of 100% benefit to you in any future Court hearing.

 

The worst thing you can do is send a letter that only helps them! So, make sure anything you do write serves a clear purpose and cannot in any way help them.

 

The bankers and DCAs thrive on making people rush a response. That is why they love the instant nature of the Telephone, and why when they are forced to write, they draft letters that are designed to elicit a fast response. Speed means you will be more likely to make a mistake.

 

Slowing things down reduces that chance, and can work the other way...the extra time could mean you win points every time you do write.

 

Give yourself plenty of thinking time...and always at their expense! Make them wait until you have something to say that will aid your own position!

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Hey Millymoo, good words, as usual from BRW, I have found it works with MBNA, I've almost forgotten about them now, at least don't lose sleep over them, it has gone very quiet now, no phone calls, no more threatening letters as such, default sum statements arrive weekly, I just file them............... Monday's post could, of course, bring another story but don't jump on these people's bandwagons, nothing they can do is urgent or threatening. Cheers (glass of wine in hand raised to you both!);)

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Hello AA99!

 

Glass of beer in both hands...just managed to get all of our Accounts done and the Tax Returns in to HMRC Web Site with just 3 minutes to spare!

 

Cost me a fine glass or two of Port to reward my Accountant! He's off to his pit now...suitably exhausted!

 

Phew, that's that done, that is.

 

Back in the loop sometime next week after mopping up the rest of the bumf that has to be done to wrap up Business/Home Accounts.

 

Red Tape...spend more time doing that than anything else.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Well thank you banker:) and AA:)

 

Its great news that they confirmed they sent it as first it says blair and then it says the bank:D shows then how unlawful their reinstatement was.

 

Yes I have done what you said. The only letter sent since company secretary, whom did not acknowledge by the way,was to halifax S.a.r just asking for them to confirms bits in the s.a.r. nothing about anything else;)

 

that was signed for last week. I am getting telephone calls from BLAIR but am keeping a log of all these.

 

i will not answer, I just let the telephone enter all the data on the phone;) then write it all down later.

 

You know what I find so funy is the way they went aout everything.

 

-terminated claiming arrears [including charges] without DN.

- reinstated after migration{shows on s.a.r]

- it even shows where someone typed to reinsert statements;)

- then it seems terminated

- without a further DN[which would of meant nothing I know as after termination] claimed a full balnce £500 more than original if they claimed it but didnt!!

-refused to send the DN referred to in the last couple of correspondence. Oh the S.A.R ignored my request too!!!!

 

I appreciate all your help as does everybody on here. I am sorry also for adgering when you have important stuff to do!

 

Keep checking in when you can:)

 

 

MILLY XXXX

Now wheres the wine!!!!!!

Edited by millymollymoo
added text

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Well thank you banker:) and AA:)

 

Its great news that they confirmed they sent it as first it says blair and then it says the bank:D shows then how unlawful their reinstatement was.

 

Yes I have done what you said. The only letter sent since company secretary, whom did not acknowledge by the way,was to halifax S.a.r just asking for them to confirms bits in the s.a.r. nothing about anything else;)

 

that was signed for last week. I am getting telephone calls from BLAIR but am keeping a log of all these.

 

i will not answer, I just let the telephone enter all the data on the phone;) then write it all down later.

 

You know what I find so funy is the way they went aout everything.

 

-terminated claiming arrears [including charges] without DN.

- reinstated after migration{shows on s.a.r]

- it even shows where someone typed to reinsert statements;)

- then it seems terminated

- without a further DN[which would of meant nothing I know as after termination] claimed a full balnce £500 more than original if they claimed it but didnt!!

-refused to send the DN referred to in the last couple of correspondence. Oh the S.A.R ignored my request too!!!!

 

I appreciate all your help as does everybody on here. I am sorry also for adgering when you have important stuff to do!

 

Keep checking in when you can:)

 

 

MILLY XXXX

Now wheres the wine!!!!!!

Hi - received response to my SAR - only covers up until November - DN was dated 10th November (received 28th November) gave me until 24th November - no days allowed for service. There is a note on the recoveries file "NOD" (Notice of default?) 10/11/08 and the same note for the 11th. Doesn't cover the termination as the notes only cover up to November. Will be writing asking for December.

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