PayPal :: Victim of fraud left to foot the bill

[Ionforge]

Approximately 6 years ago I sold several items via eBay and the buyer paid me through Pay-Pal, the transaction was however finalised and Pay-Pal cleared the money into my bank account. 8 Years ago Pay-Pal offered no protection to UK residents, eventually I was informed I had been paid by a stolen US credit card. Despite the fact that Pay-Pal cleared the stolen credit card and transferred money into my bank, I was contacted and told I owed Pay-Pal the money. Pay-Pal then protected the buyer refusing to follow up on the criminal who had used this stolen credit card and instead pursued me and demanded that I paid back this money. I argued for a long time with Pay-Pal that I was not at fault and should not be made to foot the bill and their insurance should cover this is exactly the reason people use Pay-Pal, to be protected again this sort of thing.

 

At the time I submitted a complaint to eBay about the buyer and went to the FBI website regarding the fraud. It all lead to nothing, and I was still left with Pay-Pal demanding the money.

 

Eventually I was contacted by a debt collection agency and after yet more arguing I eventually payed them, not wanting to have to go to court over such an old wound and simply wanting to move on knowing I'd never trust Pay-Pal again. This was about a year or so ago that I paid this "debt" and I had put all this behind me.

 

A few days ago I received another letter from a different debt collection agency claiming to be acting on Pay-Pal's behalf.

 

My Pay-Pal account is locked, so I have no way to log on and find out exactly what is owed on the account. I have not touched Pay-Pal since this incident. I had hoped that paying the first time would be the last I'd ever here of this.

 

The current letter has very little information on it other than the amount owed, who they are acting on behalf of and how to pay, with a giro attached at the bottom.

 

The amount being asked for is less than last time, although unfortunately I can't find previous documentation due to moving house since then it may have been thrown away.

 

The amount being asked for is only £108.93 so I really don't want this to go to court or have any legal fees added which might make this a whole lot more worrying. At the same time I do not want to pay again, just to b contacted in the future by Pay-Pal yet again trying to steal from me.

 

I've tried to read as many of the case files that seemed relevant that are on this site, as well as the FAQ's and similar problems, however I'd love more personal assistance with this issue. Ideally with the outcome of me not having to pay more money to this deceitful company and hopefully make some complaints to the right places.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you for reading.

[klassykitty]

Do not pay the money! How do you know this wont happen again if you make payment for a second time?? I agree paypal are muppets and hate using them but i can only suggest you contact them regarding the whole issue, it's a shame you paid them the first time! Besides if this debt is over 6 years old and they havent made contact within 6 years they cant ask you for any money.

 

The Limitations Act 1980 outlines the time limit within which a creditor can chase a debtor for outstanding debts. The Limitations Act 1980 only applies when no contact has been made between the creditor and debtor within the given time limit and only applies to residents of England and Wales.

Creditors are given a fixed period of time to chase their debtors, which is outlined in the Limitations Act 1980. The time scale mainly depends on the type of debt and can be extended at the courts discretion. The time limit begins when you last admitted owing the money or made a payment.

Should the creditor fail to maintain contact with the debtor, for a period of 6 years or more, it is possible to claim that the outstanding debt is "Statute Barred" under the conditions of the Limitations Act 1980.

The Limitations Act 1980 also has additional effects, depending on the type of debt in question:

Unsecured debt

 

You may have assumed that your creditor has "written-off" a debt if you have not heard from them for a long period. In many cases, it could be down to your failure to inform them of a change of address, but the debt will still exist and creditors are entitled to chase the debt indefinitely (even after the debt has become Statute Barred), however they can only use the legal system to recover the monies for up to 6 years after the last payment was made to the account.

 

 

Remember, creditors are still able to pursue an unsecured debt if:

• They have previously obtained a judgement against you (a CCJ);
  
• You have made a payment to the account within the last 6 years (this includes anyone else named on the credit agreement)
  
• You have established any contact with the creditor (this can be a phone call or letter to request a balance or change your details), except to deny that the debt exists.
  

If a creditor continues to contact you after accepting that a debt is Statute Barred and you have stated that you no longer intend to pay the debt, you may be able to claim harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

If this applies to you, reply with a letter or phonecall to the debt company stating this is over 6 years old, mention the limitation act 1980 and state you will not be paying any money. I had a debt company chase me recently who i hadnt heard from for over 6 yrs, when i phoned them i told them this but they made out they could still persue me, next thing i know i get a letter stating that due to the limitation act 1980 my account had been cleared and i would receive no more correspondance.. always challenge these companies, do not give in!!

Edited December 2, 2008 by klassykitty

[Ionforge]

Unfortunately it's not quite been 6 years since it first happened. Also if this "new" debt is the same as the previous debt that I've already paid once, then I'd have to wait another 5 years of being harassed before that would come into play.

 

Thank you for the reply though, the information was very interesting none the less

[skbuncks]

When you paid the first time was it the full amount from the original dispute? There is no reason why you should be paying it again if this is so.

 

skb

[IdaInFife]

Can you remember who the first DCA was?

 

 

Ida x

[Ionforge]

First time I paid, I paid the amount they asked for in full. I can not remember the name of the firm, after moving I've either misplaced or thrown away the correspondence.

 

They claim they have no contact with paypal, no information about the debt, and couldn't even give me a telephone number.

[IdaInFife]

In that case ask them to prove it:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Account no:

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

 

 

Ida x

[Ionforge]

That's exactly what I was looking for Ida, thank you!

[Ionforge]

Recent Update.

 

After informing them via email (I dont have a working printer, and spending £30 on a new one to resolve a £100 debt seemed silly) that we wanted proof of debt as Ida suggested, I received a phone call today after over a week of no communication. They said they had emailed me proof (they had not) and that unless I pay today, in full they would add legal charges.

 

I said I'd check my email as I was unaware of an such correspondence and she asked me to phone back today once I had read it or legal charges would be added to the account.

 

I confirmed that I had NO email from them and returned the call. In a heated conversation a different woman claimed they had no proof and did not need any as the account had been passed to them from paypal and that paypal would have sent us proof of debt at the time which was 6 years ago to a yahoo account that was abandoned soon after and had been inactive until I tried to contact paypal recently using that account so all mail had been wiped due to inactivity.

 

I'm now left facing increased legal charges and still being persued for an unfair debt.

 

What should I do now?

[IdaInFife]

The only way i think to go is to send a Subject Access Request to paypal.

 

That way you should know who the original dca was.

 

Or have you tried asking payapl who the first dca was

 

Ida x

[Ionforge]

Paypal have ignored all communication attempts.

 

I've sent a 3rd request for information today.

[42man]

Have you sent a subject access request made under the data protection act ?....this would hopefully show who the debt was passed on to....

[Ionforge]

No, should I contact paypal about that?

 

The DCA insist that they are not responsible for providing proof of debt and that I need to contact paypal, which I've tried to do without result.

 

After a 3rd conversation in one day, each with conflicting stances on how the case is being handled, I've been told the account is on hold while I ask for proof of debt from paypal.

 

so today I've been told:

 

They sent me proof of debt to my email.

They have not sent me proof of debt and don't need to do so.

I should contact paypal about proof of debt.

 

Same day, same company, 3 different employees.